HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Will Flyers Offersheet Alex Pietrangelo?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-20-2013, 12:27 AM
  #151
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Yep, it would be a 1 year offer for 1-2 million over what Philly would prefer. Wouldn't break us if it was successful.
If we were successful @ OSing Pietrangelo, you can take Couturier @ the 1st + 3rd level of compensation. I wouldn't even be mad. You could try to take Brayden Schenn too, but I'm not even worried about him at all because his brother is here and they enjoy playing together.

If the Flyers have a successful OS this offseason (not saying it's going to happen because I doubt it will), then all I care about is locking up Giroux.

WeekendAtBernies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 12:28 AM
  #152
Dark Knight
Let's go Blue Jays!
 
Dark Knight's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,154
vCash: 500
St.Louis will match, as Armstrong has said regardless of how ridiculous the offer is. High end defensemen don't grow on trees and Pietrangelo is a number 1 D-man.

__________________
http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l553/noiseboi/William_Nylander_siggy2.png
Dark Knight is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 12:34 AM
  #153
WeekendAtBernies
Registered User
 
WeekendAtBernies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 2,718
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHill Seeker View Post
Armstrong already said they'd match
Has a GM ever come out roughly 4 months prior to free agency and openly declared "WE WILL NOT MATCH AN OFFER SHEET ON OUR VALUABLE RFA, ALL OTHER GMs, LET IT BE KNOWN THAT IT'S OPEN SEASON!!!"

Seriously, any intelligent GM (aka any GM in the NHL) who is in Armstrong's situation is going to tell the media that any offersheet will be matched. Whether it actually will or not remains to be seen.

WeekendAtBernies is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 12:40 AM
  #154
jarmoismyhero
Registered User
 
jarmoismyhero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 2,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Has a GM ever come out roughly 4 months prior to free agency and openly declared "WE WILL NOT MATCH AN OFFER SHEET ON OUR VALUABLE RFA, ALL OTHER GMs, LET IT BE KNOWN THAT IT'S OPEN SEASON!!!"

Seriously, any intelligent GM (aka any GM in the NHL) who is in Armstrong's situation is going to tell the media that any offersheet will be matched. Whether it actually will or not remains to be seen.
Either way they will match and I fully expect AP to resign with Blues before it ever gets to that point...No more 10 year ******** deals happening...I expect Blues to look him up for around Karlsson deal...The Blues are fully aware of what its going to take to sign him and they have seen what Philly will do so they will get it done before Philly can even try...It's so much easier with the new CBA.

Best chance Philly had was Weber and it did not happen...Also it's not like AP would be thinking he has a better chance winning in Philly then in STL which I think is part o the reason Weber signed the deal.

jarmoismyhero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 12:44 AM
  #155
Fish on The Sand
Untouchable
 
Fish on The Sand's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Nanaimo
Country: Canada
Posts: 56,742
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IranCondraAffair View Post
I've been an Ottawa fan for a long time and I have never heard of offer sheets being threatened for either Meszaros or Turris.
Why would they?

Fish on The Sand is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 12:53 AM
  #156
mercury
Registered User
 
mercury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: South Philly/SoCal
Country: United States
Posts: 11,160
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Thank goodness for the amnesty otherwise their NMCs would prohibit them from doing that and they'd be virtually stuck with those two albatrosses
Buyout supersedes even a NMC. People really need to learn this.

http://www.capgeek.com/faq/what-s-th...TC-and-NMC.php

mercury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 07:22 AM
  #157
JustOneB4IDie
Everyone Overpayment
 
JustOneB4IDie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Man Cave
Country: United States
Posts: 3,528
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post

Although I wouldn't mind seeing the Blues get a taste of their own medicine for what happened throughout the 90s. The Blues were notorious for sending out offer sheets that drove up salaries during the 90s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_offer_sheets
Ancient History. Terrible post.

JustOneB4IDie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 08:41 AM
  #158
Broad Street Elite
Registered User
 
Broad Street Elite's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 3,998
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
St.Louis will match, as Armstrong has said regardless of how ridiculous the offer is. High end defensemen don't grow on trees and Pietrangelo is a number 1 D-man.
While I agree they'll match, even if they knew they couldn't match, do you think they'd come out and say "Hey, we're trying to control costs, so if the OS is too high, we'll let one of our best players walk away for minimal compensation!"

Any team is going to claim vehemently that they'll match any offer sheet in an effort to protect themselves from such an offer sheet being extended. The Predators claimed they'd match any offer sheet on Weber and while they ultimately did match, it only came after an independent consultant was brought in to review their operating finances.... not like it was as obvious as Poile indicated it would be.

Broad Street Elite is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 08:54 AM
  #159
bleedblue1223
Fire Army
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 29,107
vCash: 130
We have a billionaire in our ownership group, the Taylor's who own Enterprise. The money is there to match, and if they are hockey fans at all, they will put money in to maintain the current team. They are businessmen and don't want to lose money and I understand that, but even they know, if the product suffers, then the bottomline suffers. If they think long-term, Taylor will invest more to ensure we don't lose anyone.

bleedblue1223 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 09:44 AM
  #160
vatali
Life Long Slacker
 
vatali's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Middle of nowhere
Country: United States
Posts: 550
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
We have a billionaire in our ownership group, the Taylor's who own Enterprise. The money is there to match, and if they are hockey fans at all, they will put money in to maintain the current team. They are businessmen and don't want to lose money and I understand that, but even they know, if the product suffers, then the bottomline suffers. If they think long-term, Taylor will invest more to ensure we don't lose anyone.
That's an incredibly loose cannon statement, and woefully inaccurate. you have no idea the percentage that they are invested into the team, and if they will increase the influx of money into the team without asking for additional compensation or risk coverage (IE, we will give you money to keep the core, but you have to up our percentage to X%). The Taylor's haven't made any statements as to their involvement in the team, and Stillman hasn't said they anyone, Taylors or not, would step up for additional operating funds other than himself. To assume that the investment of the Taylor's large enough to warrant additional investments to curb potential losses is simply not factual and quite honestly ignorant of the situation. The reality of owning a professional sports team is to have the investment as a whole grow. Year to year profit/loss, as long as its not a significant amount of losses based on the initial investment amount, is not viewed as a measurement of success in a long term investment. The Taylors know this, as does any owner who has a large amount of money outside of the investment they are in. At this point in time no one outside the ownership group knows how much they are in for and how much, if any, they are willing to further invest. As well, no one knows how much it would cost Stillman to acquire additional operating funds from his other owners as far as % of ownership and if he would be willing to give that up. Based on everything Stillman has said so far, he is the one on the hook for operating costs. if he is looking to acquire additional capital to hedge those operating costs, those come at the cost of his percentage of ownership of the entity as a whole.

TLDR - don't assume just because someone is wealthy and has an investment that they will continue to pour money in it without some sort of risk mitigation or additional compensation.

vatali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 09:49 AM
  #161
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,907
vCash: 500
The Blues have regularly now been a 50 million dollar team in terms of spending budget. I believe it is now 3 years running where they have spent right around there. Like the poster above said, why would an owner put a ton of money forward without getting incentive back to do so.

I don't believe that teams will offer sheet Piety, but would hope that they do have problems negotiating with him. It would open the door ever so slightly for a trade to take place. If the Flyers pick high this year and don't get Seth Jones, but take Druoin or Mac, I would be willing to entertain the thought of trading a young roster player for a defenseman of his caliber.

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 09:54 AM
  #162
CarvinSigX
The Toilet
 
CarvinSigX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 11,615
vCash: 1000
Worst case scenario, Pietrangelo wants 7. That's an overpayment of around a million. You don't cut ties with a player of that calibre over a million a year...Keep dreaming Philly fans. The asking price would be the same or more than what Poile wanted for Weber.

CarvinSigX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 09:58 AM
  #163
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 15,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Worst case scenario, Pietrangelo wants 7. That's an overpayment of around a million. You don't cut ties with a player of that calibre over a million a year...Keep dreaming Philly fans. The asking price would be the same or more than what Poile wanted for Weber.
1. The OP isn't a Flyers fan, as far as I know.

2. I don't think a single Flyers fan has said that they expect the team to acquire Pietrangelo, either via offer sheet or trade.

All anyone has said, and I think it is fair, is that if Pietrangelo gets to July unsigned, it is likely that the Flyers, as well as many, many other teams, will submit an offer. Why wouldn't they?

Will it work? I doubt it. Pietrangelo is in a good situation in St. Louis and has no reason to want out as long as the Blues come up with the money to pay him, which I'm certain they will. I don't think he would sign unless negotiations were going poorly, and I'm sure St. Louis would match all but the most absurd offers anyway.


Last edited by Jack de la Hoya: 03-20-2013 at 10:04 AM.
Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 09:59 AM
  #164
triggrman
Registered User
 
triggrman's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Murfreesboro, TN
Country: United States
Posts: 21,777
vCash: 557
Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
While I agree they'll match, even if they knew they couldn't match, do you think they'd come out and say "Hey, we're trying to control costs, so if the OS is too high, we'll let one of our best players walk away for minimal compensation!"

Any team is going to claim vehemently that they'll match any offer sheet in an effort to protect themselves from such an offer sheet being extended. The Predators claimed they'd match any offer sheet on Weber and while they ultimately did match, it only came after an independent consultant was brought in to review their operating finances.... not like it was as obvious as Poile indicated it would be.
I'm curious where did you read that? I mean that's totally a Poile type move but I had not heard it.

triggrman is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 09:59 AM
  #165
jarmoismyhero
Registered User
 
jarmoismyhero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 2,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
The Blues have regularly now been a 50 million dollar team in terms of spending budget. I believe it is now 3 years running where they have spent right around there. Like the poster above said, why would an owner put a ton of money forward without getting incentive back to do so.

I don't believe that teams will offer sheet Piety, but would hope that they do have problems negotiating with him. It would open the door ever so slightly for a trade to take place. If the Flyers pick high this year and don't get Seth Jones, but take Druoin or Mac, I would be willing to entertain the thought of trading a young roster player for a defenseman of his caliber.
You would be looking at Schenn and Cout +...If AP goes on market people are going to pay a killing to get him...However the Blues have yet to hand out a stupid long term big money deal...AP is the reason.

jarmoismyhero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:02 AM
  #166
jarmoismyhero
Registered User
 
jarmoismyhero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: St. Louis
Country: United States
Posts: 2,576
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
1. The OP isn't a Flyers fan, as far as I know.

2. I don't think a single Flyers fan has said that they expect the team to acquire Pietrangelo, either via offer sheet or trade.

All anyone has said, and I think it is fair, is that if Pietrangelo gets to July unsigned, it is likely that the Flyers, as well as many, many other teams, will submit an offer. Why wouldn't they?

Will it work? I doubt it. Pietrangelo is in a good situation in St. Louis and has no reason to want out as long as the Blues come up with the money to pay him, which I'm certain they will. I don't think he would sign unless negotiations were going poorly, and I'm sure St. Louis would match all but the most absurd offers anyway.
I agree with 1 and 2...This is one case where I think AP gets signed after the season before July1....His value has been set and with the 7 year contract max this becomes a much easier contract to negotiate one year prior...Thanks to the Sens and PHX setting the price for AP it should be a failry easy deal.

jarmoismyhero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:05 AM
  #167
Hugo Sham
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Montreal
Posts: 11,898
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeekendAtBernies View Post
Has a GM ever come out roughly 4 months prior to free agency and openly declared "WE WILL NOT MATCH AN OFFER SHEET ON OUR VALUABLE RFA, ALL OTHER GMs, LET IT BE KNOWN THAT IT'S OPEN SEASON!!!"

Seriously, any intelligent GM (aka any GM in the NHL) who is in Armstrong's situation is going to tell the media that any offersheet will be matched. Whether it actually will or not remains to be seen.
hey, don't use my opinion as any kind of reference, plug yourself into factual reality and look for the last time a big ticket D man was allowed to leave via an offer-sheet. that will become your context

Hugo Sham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:07 AM
  #168
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
You would be looking at Schenn and Cout +...If AP goes on market people are going to pay a killing to get him...However the Blues have yet to hand out a stupid long term big money deal...AP is the reason.
These are tough trade proposals because we know what types of returns a guy like Chris Pronger got and Piety isn't Pronger. Phanuef might have been one of the worst trades I have seen so I won't include that in my thinking about a trade.

Couts++ I would definitely start with. No chance you get both. Now before you say "no chance you get Piety then" this is simply a hypothetical. Only if they can't figure out a deal or if he wants to be moved. I am just trying to be reasonable. Also if they do start looking around for a trade, you can probably exclude 13 teams now in the West. There will be a lot of teams after him yes, but we have some top end talent on our roster and some above average defenders we can put in play that might be enough (probably not)

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:10 AM
  #169
CarvinSigX
The Toilet
 
CarvinSigX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 11,615
vCash: 1000
The asking price would be 2 or more pieces you don't want to give up...Not just 1.

CarvinSigX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:12 AM
  #170
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
The asking price would be 2 or more pieces you don't want to give up...Not just 1.
I would think it would be one young top end player(Couts) and a defender(Coburn). Now If I was Homer I would have made that offer last year to Poille plus picks of course for Weber.

I know people will say all these pieces but if you can't get him to sign and start exploring the market, no team will gut themselves for him. It's just not how it works. They won't be able to. Also any contending team trying to acquire him would have to send some type of salary back because of his new price tag.

Couts
Coburn
1st
2 2nds

EDIT: also note that I am a huge Piety fan, and some Flyers fans might disagree with my proposal.

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:17 AM
  #171
Jack de la Hoya
Registered User
 
Jack de la Hoya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Texas
Country: United States
Posts: 15,242
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I would think it would be one young top end player(Couts) and a defender(Coburn). Now If I was Homer I would have made that offer last year to Poille plus picks of course for Weber.

I know people will say all these pieces but if you can't get him to sign and start exploring the market, no team will gut themselves for him. It's just not how it works. They won't be able to. Also any contending team trying to acquire him would have to send some type of salary back because of his new price tag.

Couts
Coburn
1st
2 2nds

EDIT: also note that I am a huge Piety fan, and some Flyers fans might disagree with my proposal.
You're rapidly undermining my claim that no Flyers fan actually thinks we can get Pietrangelo...

No, St. Louis doesn't do that, not unless they cannot get Pietrangelo signed (which won't be the case). At that point, it doesn't make sense for the Flyers to pay the price.

I'd gladly give up Couturier + Coburn + for Pietrangelo, which suggests it isn't nearly enough.

There's no hockey trade to be made here. The Flyers simply cannot give St. Louis fair value for a young true #1 defenseman.

Jack de la Hoya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:20 AM
  #172
Prongo
Beer
 
Prongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: philadelphia
Country: United States
Posts: 16,907
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack de la Hoya View Post
You're rapidly undermining my claim that no Flyers fan actually thinks we can get Pietrangelo...

No, St. Louis doesn't do that, not unless they cannot get Pietrangelo signed (which won't be the case). At that point, it doesn't make sense for the Flyers to pay the price.

I'd gladly give up Couturier + Coburn + for Pietrangelo, which suggests it isn't nearly enough.

There's no hockey trade to be made here. The Flyers simply cannot give St. Louis fair value for a young true #1 defenseman.
I don't honestly think it would happen TBH. Just what I would offer as my package.

I don't give up Couts gladly in any deal also. Even if we do draft top end offensive talent this year, I still have problems trading him away. He has struggled yes, but Flyers fans seem to think we should throw him in a lot of deals. I just said what I think would be fair value. Couts potential varies among a lot of people, but I am one who doesn't think he is levels out as a 60 point player with shut down potential.

Prongo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:33 AM
  #173
CellarDweller0
Registered User
 
CellarDweller0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Mississauga
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,363
vCash: 500
History dictates that the Flyers have no qualms about doing it so it is possible. Can't see St.Louis letting it happen though.

CellarDweller0 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:47 AM
  #174
Just One Cup
Registered User
 
Just One Cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,852
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
I would think it would be one young top end player(Couts) and a defender(Coburn). Now If I was Homer I would have made that offer last year to Poille plus picks of course for Weber.

I know people will say all these pieces but if you can't get him to sign and start exploring the market, no team will gut themselves for him. It's just not how it works. They won't be able to. Also any contending team trying to acquire him would have to send some type of salary back because of his new price tag.

Couts
Coburn
1st
2 2nds

EDIT: also note that I am a huge Piety fan, and some Flyers fans might disagree with my proposal.
By the time you add up couts and coburns salary your over 5 mil. I think the blues would just rather pay Petro a couple mill more and keep him. The pic are nice but not going to help us now.

Just One Cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-20-2013, 10:59 AM
  #175
bleedblue1223
Fire Army
 
bleedblue1223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 29,107
vCash: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by vatali View Post
That's an incredibly loose cannon statement, and woefully inaccurate. you have no idea the percentage that they are invested into the team, and if they will increase the influx of money into the team without asking for additional compensation or risk coverage (IE, we will give you money to keep the core, but you have to up our percentage to X%). The Taylor's haven't made any statements as to their involvement in the team, and Stillman hasn't said they anyone, Taylors or not, would step up for additional operating funds other than himself. To assume that the investment of the Taylor's large enough to warrant additional investments to curb potential losses is simply not factual and quite honestly ignorant of the situation. The reality of owning a professional sports team is to have the investment as a whole grow. Year to year profit/loss, as long as its not a significant amount of losses based on the initial investment amount, is not viewed as a measurement of success in a long term investment. The Taylors know this, as does any owner who has a large amount of money outside of the investment they are in. At this point in time no one outside the ownership group knows how much they are in for and how much, if any, they are willing to further invest. As well, no one knows how much it would cost Stillman to acquire additional operating funds from his other owners as far as % of ownership and if he would be willing to give that up. Based on everything Stillman has said so far, he is the one on the hook for operating costs. if he is looking to acquire additional capital to hedge those operating costs, those come at the cost of his percentage of ownership of the entity as a whole.

TLDR - don't assume just because someone is wealthy and has an investment that they will continue to pour money in it without some sort of risk mitigation or additional compensation.
Notice my use of the word "if." "If" was a pretty important word and the point is that the Blues situation isn't nearly as bad as some would think. Just because we have a budget, doesn't mean we don't have money. Just remember my use of the word "if."

bleedblue1223 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:52 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.