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Ryan Miller, Thomas Vanek, Jason Pominville, Drew Stafford

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Old
03-26-2013, 03:33 PM
  #226
McTank
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If there really is no market for miller just re-sign him, he's been good for us I wouldnt mind making him and vanek sabres for life. Trade pommers and stafford. The rochester core will be really be gone, unless you consider two players a core... I would see vanek and miller as just a couple of vets to help out the new core

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03-26-2013, 03:36 PM
  #227
RazielMoshman
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Would Winnipeg like Stafford? They are in with a good shot of making the playoffs and could do with a few extra goals. Not sure who they have though. Only other teams I see are Ottawa, Vancouver or Detroit.

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03-26-2013, 03:38 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
If there really is no market for miller just re-sign him, he's been good for us I wouldnt mind making him and vanek sabres for life. Trade pommers and stafford. The rochester core will be really be gone, unless you consider two players a core... I would see vanek and miller as just a couple of vets to help out the new core
I like that plan as long as Miller's whining gets under control. Vanek is absolutely what I want my young guys seeing. Plays hard, plays hurt, and is never satisfied.

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03-26-2013, 04:03 PM
  #229
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Vanek seems to get idealized a lot, in the sense that he's constantly projected with this aura of perseverance/fighting through being hurt which is factually true but also routinely a convenient excuse made for him when he becomes more inconsistent and goes through stretches of minimal production. He's a very good player, but he has his downs, just like his ups. He's also someone that previously used to clearly get overly down on himself and just does not seem as strong mentally as he should at times. (I can't say I've seen it as much this year, mostly because I haven't paid as much attention).

For the record, I'm not opposed to keeping him (or trading) him or any of the folks mentioned, I just don't consider him to b. Vanek, Poms, and Miller are all very good but clearly flawed players. They just don't all equally seem to get the slack Vanek does.

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03-26-2013, 08:29 PM
  #230
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Vanek skated off injured again.

I'm sorry, but I can't support extending this guy... He is always injured. He can't be counted on.

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03-26-2013, 09:05 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Vanek skated off injured again.

I'm sorry, but I can't support extending this guy... He is always injured. He can't be counted on.
ALWAYS? No

Dinged up where he misses a shift? A period? Happens, but not more or less than the average (if there is an average time)


Is that even something that can be found? The average amount of time (not games) a player misses due to an injury of some sort in a season.


If so I think Vanek is right near the average. Maybe even low.

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03-26-2013, 09:08 PM
  #232
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He often plays through his injuries, and he is way less effective when he does that.

He's also not going to be injured less often as he gets older.


Playing ineffectively through injury isn't better than missing time... In some ways it worse.

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Old
03-26-2013, 09:11 PM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
He often plays through his injuries, and he is way less effective when he does that.

He's also not going to be injured less often as he gets older.


Playing ineffectively through injury isn't better than missing time... In some ways it worse.
Maybe the next time he gets cross-checked in front of the net, Scott will kick the guys @@@. He's here to protect our 'stars'.


Hahahaha

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Old
03-27-2013, 12:30 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
Vanek skated off injured again.

I'm sorry, but I can't support extending this guy... He is always injured. He can't be counted on.
Just a quick question. How many games a year does Vanek miss on average and how does that compare to other top six wingers ? How does that compare to the NHL average for all players?

Better yet, how many games on average does he miss and how does that compare to other top six wingers who play in front of the net on the pp.

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Old
03-27-2013, 12:34 PM
  #235
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He may not miss many games..but take a shot every time you see him wincing in pain on the bench.

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Old
03-27-2013, 12:35 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by ZZamboni View Post
ALWAYS? No

Dinged up where he misses a shift? A period? Happens, but not more or less than the average (if there is an average time)


Is that even something that can be found? The average amount of time (not games) a player misses due to an injury of some sort in a season.


If so I think Vanek is right near the average. Maybe even low.
Not sure on the specifics, but regarding Vaneks injuries; they happen more than they should. Does he play through them at times? Yes. Is he worth a hoot when he is playing hurt? Most times not.

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03-27-2013, 02:19 PM
  #237
Karate Johnson
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Originally Posted by borisbaenough View Post
Just a quick question. How many games a year does Vanek miss on average and how does that compare to other top six wingers ? How does that compare to the NHL average for all players?

Better yet, how many games on average does he miss and how does that compare to other top six wingers who play in front of the net on the pp.
My opinion has nothing to do with games he misses.

It has nothing to do with players who take a similar beating.


It is about Vanek, the frequency I his nagging injuries, and his effectiveness when he plays hurt.

I take that info, factor in his age, an likely next contract, and I come to the conclusion that I don't want to pay that amount for that number of years.

Plain and simple.

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Old
03-27-2013, 02:57 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Karate Johnson View Post
My opinion has nothing to do with games he misses.

It has nothing to do with players who take a similar beating.


It is about Vanek, the frequency I his nagging injuries, and his effectiveness when he plays hurt.

I take that info, factor in his age, an likely next contract, and I come to the conclusion that I don't want to pay that amount for that number of years.

Plain and simple.
The fact is he is below average injury wise. His effectiveness on the Sabres has more to do with the scheme they use and the talent that surrounds him than with his injuries or age. He is where on the list of all time Buffalo scorers in how many seasons ?. He was on pace to put up another 30+ this year had it been a regular season without a #1 center , for the fifth year in a row?, without a big physical scoring rw to create some space , or a pp capable of using him properly.

If Vanek does not stay here you will not see the likes of him in Buffalo for a very long time. Buffalo is not a destination city for any of the 30-40+ goal scorers in the NHL. Players that make everybody they play with better are very rare. There are probably only ten or twelve teams out there that will give him 7+ mil for five or more years if he wants it ...but your opinion is your opinion and i respect it for what it is

Fyi ..when he plays hurt....he is still the most valuable guy on the ice because he always draws the opposing teams shudown line AND that creates space for his linemates and better matchups elsewhere.


Last edited by borisbadenough: 03-27-2013 at 06:06 PM.
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Old
03-28-2013, 09:58 AM
  #239
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Ducks Fan here in peace

I was just wondering if you think the Sabres will be actively selling at the deadline and if so, is Vanek in play? What would he cost? [not asking for Anaheim, just in general]

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03-28-2013, 10:01 AM
  #240
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Ducks Fan here in peace

I was just wondering if you think the Sabres will be actively selling at the deadline and if so, is Vanek in play? What would he cost? [not asking for Anaheim, just in general]
Yes to the first question, possibly to the second. Regier won't be actively shopping Vanek, but if an offer were to come through that he really liked, he'd deal him. As for what he'd cost, a ton. Vanek is Regier's only high end player right now, so to try and get him is going to require overpaying.

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03-28-2013, 10:08 AM
  #241
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Yes to the first question, possibly to the second. Regier won't be actively shopping Vanek, but if an offer were to come through that he really liked, he'd deal him. As for what he'd cost, a ton. Vanek is Regier's only high end player right now, so to try and get him is going to require overpaying.
Hm if the cost would really be that high he probably won't be moved. Would need a team desperate to win.

And what would the cost of Regehr be? In that case from a Ducks POV?

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03-28-2013, 10:10 AM
  #242
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Hm if the cost would really be that high he probably won't be moved. Would need a team desperate to win.

And what would the cost of Regehr be? In that case from a Ducks POV?
Regehr has a NMC, so getting him to waive that for Anaheim would be step one. Assuming that were gone, something in the ballpark of what Murray pulled in.

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03-28-2013, 10:16 AM
  #243
Unagi
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Regehr has a NMC, so getting him to waive that for Anaheim would be step one. Assuming that were gone, something in the ballpark of what Murray pulled in.
I see. I guess that would be manageable from a Ducks perspective, considering we need to make a push now and still need help for our own zone.

Thx you have been very helpful!

EDIT: jeez I really need to check my writing before I post.

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03-28-2013, 10:40 AM
  #244
Karate Johnson
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Originally Posted by borisbaenough View Post
The fact is he is below average injury wise. His effectiveness on the Sabres has more to do with the scheme they use and the talent that surrounds him than with his injuries or age. He is where on the list of all time Buffalo scorers in how many seasons ?. He was on pace to put up another 30+ this year had it been a regular season without a #1 center , for the fifth year in a row?, without a big physical scoring rw to create some space , or a pp capable of using him properly.

If Vanek does not stay here you will not see the likes of him in Buffalo for a very long time. Buffalo is not a destination city for any of the 30-40+ goal scorers in the NHL. Players that make everybody they play with better are very rare. There are probably only ten or twelve teams out there that will give him 7+ mil for five or more years if he wants it ...but your opinion is your opinion and i respect it for what it is

Fyi ..when he plays hurt....he is still the most valuable guy on the ice because he always draws the opposing teams shudown line AND that creates space for his linemates and better matchups elsewhere.

He is without question our most talented player.

But we are not close to a cup. We are going to have to rebuild.


I have been fine with getting rid of Vanek, Pominville, and Miller for a while....and we certainly won't keep them all. I could be convinced keeping Vanek is a good idea, if he wants to end his career here and take a contract that gives us flexibility. If he's looking to maximize the $$ side of things he can do it elsewhere.

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Old
03-28-2013, 11:50 AM
  #245
JohnnyDrama21
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Please let Boston panic trade for Pominville. Please let Boston panic trade for Pominville. Please let Boston panic trade for Pominville. Please let Boston panic trade for Pominville.

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03-28-2013, 12:09 PM
  #246
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Please let Boston panic trade for Pominville. Please let Boston panic trade for Pominville. Please let Boston panic trade for Pominville. Please let Boston panic trade for Pominville.
Panic how much? Like Koko + 1st + panic? Or Dougie Hamilton panic?

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03-28-2013, 04:20 PM
  #247
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You ever go out on Black Friday and miss all the deals but you waited outside in the cold for a few hours anyway like an idiot? And then you feel like you should buy SOMETHING to make your trip worth it so you don't feel empty handed?

Yeah...well that's the Boston Bruins. We should offer them Stafford and Pominville.

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03-28-2013, 04:23 PM
  #248
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I could see Stafford thriving in the Boston system.

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03-28-2013, 05:23 PM
  #249
Karate Johnson
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I could see Stafford thriving in the Boston system.
Is there a lot of emphasis on player guitar and making stupid videos in the Boston system?

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Old
03-28-2013, 05:24 PM
  #250
Karate Johnson
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I could see Stafford thriving in the Boston system.
Is there a lot of emphasis on playing guitar and making stupid videos in the Boston system?

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