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Rangers win 3-2, Devils fall out of a playoff spot

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Old
03-20-2013, 12:35 PM
  #126
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Easy with this higher level thing... I'm not even level 2 certified and our team didn't win a damn thing until I left the bench and became GM. Apparently I was the Johnny Mac of our team.

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03-20-2013, 12:38 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Richer's Ghost View Post
Easy with this higher level thing... I'm not even level 2 certified and our team didn't win a damn thing until I left the bench and became GM. Apparently I was the Johnny Mac of our team.
Meant to ask you this earlier...do you guys ever play the Purdue club team?

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03-20-2013, 12:39 PM
  #128
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Little bit of that

I think that the when a player shifts from trying to keep the puck in the zone by sliding up from the blue line to the dots or hash marks and then winds up being the deepest guy in the zone, that's the difference between a pinch and being a forechecker.

If you're a defensemen and you're forechecking (chasing the puck behind the goal line & putting pressure on their d-men) then you are playing a very undisciplined and unstructured game. Or a needlessly complex game where a forward has to become a defensive player.

Now, when we have our typical line up - and some semblance of forward depth - this isn't as big of an issue. We can play a smarter, more complex game. But right now, with our lines? Ugh. Not to even begin to mention Marty's ability to play a 2-on-1 is virtually a bajillion-million times better than Hedbergs...
Oh sorry I thought we were talking about when the possession is established in the offensive zone. I see what you mean and that Zids sometimes is indeed, really forechecking. Not a fan of this neither.

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03-20-2013, 12:42 PM
  #129
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I believe that is exactly what Lou was banking on coming into this season. It doesn't happen that often, but he turned out to be wrong. I think most people expected JJ to continue his development and be a significant piece of our core this year; Tedenby less so but there was still some optimism there before the season started.

This is why I call people out for being armchair GM's after the fact. It's so easy in hindsight to say that Lou should have known things wouldn't pan out. If JJ and Teddy played up to their potential, everybody would think Lou is a genius for letting old man Sykie go and moving the team forward with younger and faster forwards.
Oh come now, that's just another incorrect rationalization.

Regarding Josefson, yes more was expected but center was not and never has been the issue up front. They essentially got what they thought they'd get from Loktionov/Zajac what they were supposed to from Zajac/Josefson.

Parise and Syk were not centers. They were wings whose production needed to be replaced. Expecting or even hoping for Tedenby to help fill the void after he flopped last year and was passed over all through the second half was utterly foolish. Same with an 18-year old Matteau. The fact he was actually better than the other trash we've had at wing is a huge indictment. If they thought Butler was a real solution, he wouldn't have started the season in Albany.


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Old
03-20-2013, 12:43 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by BrodeursCups View Post
Meant to ask you this earlier...do you guys ever play the Purdue club team?
Next year we do. We tried to get a game in late this season after a cancellation but couldn't squeeze it in. Our scheduler is supposed to have them down though for the first time this fall. Should be fun.

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03-20-2013, 12:49 PM
  #131
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Easy with this higher level thing... I'm not even level 2 certified and our team didn't win a damn thing until I left the bench and became GM. Apparently I was the Johnny Mac of our team.
So, you ever get paid to coach?

Higher level than me.

Ever coach someone talented older then 10 years or old?

High level than me... Lol

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03-20-2013, 12:53 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by guitarguyvic View Post
I believe that is exactly what Lou was banking on coming into this season. It doesn't happen that often, but he turned out to be wrong. I think most people expected JJ to continue his development and be a significant piece of our core this year; Tedenby less so but there was still some optimism there before the season started.

This is why I call people out for being armchair GM's after the fact. It's so easy in hindsight to say that Lou should have known things wouldn't pan out. If JJ and Teddy played up to their potential, everybody would think Lou is a genius for letting old man Sykie go and moving the team forward with younger and faster forwards.
I don't ever question the team's picks. There is so much that goes into drafting, all you can do is trust that the picks will turn out.

I don't blame Lou one bit for counting on JJ to be a part of this team. He should have. Guys like Butler and Ted, eh... not so much. I've always felt that Josefson had a good mind for the game, but he really came up short this season and it's one of the reasons why this has been a frustrating couple of months. This team could and should be so much better than they are right now.

Picks and injuries aside, it's still not enough of an excuse. These things are going to happen to every team. I mean look at Ottawa. They're getting **** done and have some major injuries to deal with. I just can't get past the sloppy play that we have seen for weeks now. It's one thing to be banged up, but you can't go out there and serve up meat balls to the opposition every chance you get. I'm thinking of the game last night and I truly can't understand how the hell they managed to blow the game the way they did. The Rangers were nothing short of horrific.


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03-20-2013, 12:53 PM
  #133
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I just wanted to say something... you guys were phenomenal at the beginning of the season. You were practically unbeatable. What changed this theme? When Marty went down. Things just changed. Get Marty back in net and just watch the wins take place again. I am not saying that is the only reason but it's 90% of it. Your so called flaws will all lessen once you get your stud back in net. I really believe that. If you guys were slumping like this with Marty back, that's one thing. Get Marty back in there and watch the wins happen again. You will make the playoffs, mark it down.

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03-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
So, you ever get paid to coach?

Higher level than me.

Ever coach someone talented older then 10 years or old?

High level than me... Lol
ok well you got me there. I guarantee your 10 yr olds listen better though.

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03-20-2013, 12:55 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportserie View Post
I just wanted to say something... you guys were phenomenal at the beginning of the season. You were practically unbeatable. What changed this theme? When Marty went down. Things just changed. Get Marty back in net and just watch the wins take place again. I am not saying that is the only reason but it's 90% of it. Your so called flaws will all lessen once you get your stud back in net. I really believe that. If you guys were slumping like this with Marty back, that's one thing. Get Marty back in there and watch the wins happen again. You will make the playoffs, mark it down.
I really do hope your right. Marty going down was a big loss because there were several games that if Marty played in this losing streak, we would have won. Love Moose, but he cannot play 13 games in a row

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03-20-2013, 12:59 PM
  #136
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I really do hope your right. Marty going down was a big loss because there were several games that if Marty played in this losing streak, we would have won. Love Moose, but he cannot play 13 games in a row
Exactly. The only thing that has changed is the best goalie to ever play in the NHL got injured. He is thankfully on his way back. You guys are going to be just fine once he's in net again. Good luck to you.

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03-20-2013, 12:59 PM
  #137
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we need Marty to enter god mode down the stretch here, games are running out and we need someone to carry us. Kovy can only be double shifted so much

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03-20-2013, 01:03 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
The turnover isn't the issue, it's that he's consistently ending up below the offensive goal line. This means either a 2-on-1 the other way is likely - which happened often last night - or a forward is playing at the point which leads to less than ideal defensive zone coverage.

Not to mention he ends up on halfboards all the time where he's pretty weak. Not a good situation at all to generate offense or keep a stable defense.
These are the things that happen when you have to push for offense because you're always playing from behind because your goaltending is bad.

Everyone can talk all they want about "shot quality," but statistically, it's proven you can ignore it and it won't affect chances. So we can argue all we want about the Devils' defensive coverage, but the fact is you're not going to win games when your goaltender has an .886 save percentage.

The Devils were successful for YEARS not by limiting opposing shot quality, but by limiting total shots against. Brodeur happened to be the most consistent and reliable goalie of all time and it was a winning combination. Playing with the puck more often (i.e. Pete's system) doesn't work when your goalie still allows 3+ on 20 shots every game.

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03-20-2013, 01:04 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Sportserie View Post
I just wanted to say something... you guys were phenomenal at the beginning of the season. You were practically unbeatable. What changed this theme? When Marty went down. Things just changed. Get Marty back in net and just watch the wins take place again. I am not saying that is the only reason but it's 90% of it. Your so called flaws will all lessen once you get your stud back in net. I really believe that. If you guys were slumping like this with Marty back, that's one thing. Get Marty back in there and watch the wins happen again. You will make the playoffs, mark it down.

Thank you very much. I already hate the Wild a bit less now (yeah because of HIM). Such a kind post.

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03-20-2013, 01:05 PM
  #140
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These are the things that happen when you have to push for offense because you're always playing from behind because your goaltending is bad.

Everyone can talk all they want about "shot quality," but statistically, it's proven you can ignore it and it won't affect chances. So we can argue all we want about the Devils' defensive coverage, but the fact is you're not going to win games when your goaltender has an .886 save percentage.

The Devils were successful for YEARS not by limiting opposing shot quality, but by limiting total shots against. Brodeur happened to be the most consistent and reliable goalie of all time and it was a winning combination. Playing with the puck more often (i.e. Pete's system) doesn't work when your goalie still allows 3+ on 20 shots every game.
I agree with that, I'm just saying my beef with one particular player (Zids). I'm aware that even if he was Bobby Orr in his prime, we're still not winning these games...

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03-20-2013, 01:09 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by BrodeursCups View Post
While true regarding JJ, its not like there are any picks around him that are tearing up the league..I wanted schroeder that year, but he's not doing much either. We can only hope some more time in the A helps him gain confidence and improve his game in the O zone. His skating has improved tremendously, but he just hasn't put it together yet...
Schroeder has been in literally the EXACT same situation with Vancouver this year. He made the team out of camp, looked good for a bit, fell off, got demoted to the fourth line, everyone asked "WHY ISN'T HE SETTING ALL THESE PLUGS UP FOR HIGHLIGHT REEL GOALS?!?!?!!" and he got sent back down. The only difference is Schroeder didn't get injured when he went back to Chicago.

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03-20-2013, 01:13 PM
  #142
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Josefson has the awareness to at least be competent as a 3rd line C, although we have zajac for that apparently =/ , but I'm sure upper management is hoping he can turn into a little bit more than that.

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03-20-2013, 01:18 PM
  #143
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It should also be mentioned that Jordan Schroeder set Dale Weise up for a highlight reel goal last night. But I firmly believe Josefson would be in line to do that for us now if he was actually playing.

That's partly the problem. Lou pretty much had the worst-case scenario this season. He clearly thought it was time for players within the organization to step up. He mentioned in the offseason that guys like Bernier or Carter might be in line for a promotion to the third line this year. He brought in Barch so we'd have a better goon when we need him. He even signed Butler as a bit of insurance in case everyone failed.

But EVERYONE has failed, for whatever reason. And that's what we're looking at. He's even added two quality forward pieces this season and we're STILL depleted. Someone mentioned wondering what the Devils did to piss off the hockey gods this season and I'm starting to get on board with that.

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03-20-2013, 01:28 PM
  #144
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I promise this'll be the last double post of the day, but now I'm thinking about this.

Realistically, Lou expected any combination of these players to help restock and contribute to the team this season:

Josefson
Tedenby
Butler
Matteau
Harrold (in 4th line forward mode)
Loktionov
Ponikarovsky
Anderson
Pesonen
Barch
Kostopolous


Now look at the game last night, and tell me who of these players contributed? The answer is none (though I would exempt Barch/Kosto as they've done their jobs), for a slew of reasons. That's why we're screwed this year. I think it's fair to criticize Lou for keeping extra defensemen, but realistically he's done more than enough to make sure this team SHOULD have been competitive this season.

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03-20-2013, 01:34 PM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Sportserie View Post
I just wanted to say something... you guys were phenomenal at the beginning of the season. You were practically unbeatable. What changed this theme? When Marty went down. Things just changed. Get Marty back in net and just watch the wins take place again. I am not saying that is the only reason but it's 90% of it. Your so called flaws will all lessen once you get your stud back in net. I really believe that. If you guys were slumping like this with Marty back, that's one thing. Get Marty back in there and watch the wins happen again. You will make the playoffs, mark it down.
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Exactly. The only thing that has changed is the best goalie to ever play in the NHL got injured. He is thankfully on his way back. You guys are going to be just fine once he's in net again. Good luck to you.
Thanks a ton man. We need some more of this optimism.

Hope you're enjoying you know who. I miss him a ton. Heart and soul player and was a solid captain for us from what I can tell. Say what you want about his contract but he has the uncanny ability to be the pulse of a team through his hard work.

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03-20-2013, 01:40 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by Eggers View Post
I promise this'll be the last double post of the day, but now I'm thinking about this.

Realistically, Lou expected any combination of these players to help restock and contribute to the team this season:

Josefson
Tedenby
Butler
Matteau
Harrold (in 4th line forward mode)
Loktionov
Ponikarovsky
Anderson
Pesonen
Barch
Kostopolous


Now look at the game last night, and tell me who of these players contributed? The answer is none (though I would exempt Barch/Kosto as they've done their jobs), for a slew of reasons. That's why we're screwed this year. I think it's fair to criticize Lou for keeping extra defensemen, but realistically he's done more than enough to make sure this team SHOULD have been competitive this season.
How so? We lost a total of 113 pts with the departure of Parise and Sykora and all we have to look forward to are the guys you've stated above?

How is that "doing more than enough to make sure this team is competitive this year"?

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03-20-2013, 01:55 PM
  #147
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Because some of those players are (or were) pretty good? You can add Zajac to that list, too.

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03-20-2013, 02:09 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Sportserie View Post
I just wanted to say something... you guys were phenomenal at the beginning of the season. You were practically unbeatable. What changed this theme? When Marty went down. Things just changed. Get Marty back in net and just watch the wins take place again. I am not saying that is the only reason but it's 90% of it. Your so called flaws will all lessen once you get your stud back in net. I really believe that. If you guys were slumping like this with Marty back, that's one thing. Get Marty back in there and watch the wins happen again. You will make the playoffs, mark it down.
Thanks for your class. Posters like you make me dislike the Wild a little less or any team they're a fan of a little less. And I really mean that.

Honestly though since Marty has been out this team has scored 2.07 goals per game. That 5 goal against the Flyers really skews that number cause had we only scored say 3 goals that game, it would have been 1.93 goals per game. You can't win like that whether your goalie sucks or not. You need real Hart Trophy goaltending to win with a team like that, nevermind Vezina caliber goaltending.

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03-20-2013, 02:16 PM
  #149
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Because some of those players are (or were) pretty good? You can add Zajac to that list, too.
There's not one player on that list that deserved to be part of our top #6 or was going to give us the production we all expect out of our forwards on both of our top 2 lines... and that's what Parise and Sykora gave us, top #6 production.

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03-20-2013, 02:19 PM
  #150
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The worst part is we have the Bruins two more times. No matter how good this team plays against them it's like not meant to be for us to be able to beat them the last two years. We can play a great game against them and still lose 4-1. Last year we saw them show up for 5 minutes one game and win 4-1. Though teams like the Jets can beat them.

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