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Ross Johnston stick swinging incident

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Old
02-17-2013, 09:58 PM
  #1
RJQuack
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Ross Johnston stick swinging incident

Not much discussion going on, so I gave it its own thread to generate some opinions on what kind, if any, of discipline should be given to Johnston on Moncton.

During the 3rd period in this Saturday's game in Halifax, #48 Ross Johnston on Moncton has his stick caught in the glass while forechekcing. #5 Brian Lovell is shadowing him and playing him close ... Johnston gets his stick free but while doing so, grips his stick with both hands and appears to make a deliberate chopping motion on Lovell's face ... The result was no penalty, as it was behind the play only our assistant coach and one linesman saw it ... And 10,000 fans ... Our staff was livid, and Lovell was gushing blood pretty bad .. He also has a broken jaw and could be out for more than 6 weeks ...

Aerial view: http://thechronicleherald.ca/moosehe...-seals-victory


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Slow-mo:http://link.brightcove.com/services/...=2172289036001


Still Frame: http://twitpic.com/c4oxrf

Willy Palov■@CH_WillyPalov
MT "@rinkrant: Lovell has broken jaw. He undergoes surgery later today. @treylewis07 out with upper body injury."


Personally, that third video in slow-motion is tough to look at ... My opinion on it is he shows intent. The 3rd video makes it pretty difficult for me to say it was an accident. Other posters have said this but it was "done with rage/heat of the moment" ... Lovell tries to ride him into the boards and actually slashes him as he falls ... Johnston frustrated at his stick being caught in glass wanting to get back in the play (that would be pretty annoying) and probably pissed at Lovell, who happens to be there, reacts in a terrible fashion ... It's minor in the grand scheme of things, but Johnston doesn't look back either ... We're not in the head of these players, but it seems like he knows what he did and continues heading up ice ...

Anyways, I believe he's guilty and the tape has been sent in ... I said 10 games before and I'll say it again. It's harsh, but look at what we have ... Vicious and reckless act, intent (obviously IMO) and an injured player ... If we're lucky Lovell will be ready for the 2nd round/April as he had surgery today for his broken jaw ...

So I posted this for reaction ... Anyone have a different opinion? Thoughts?

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02-18-2013, 05:36 AM
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hfboardfanatic
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Mr Johnston has earned a lifetime ban from the CHL - this medieval type of behaviour deserves nothing less.

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02-18-2013, 07:30 AM
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NS Bluenoser
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If the Q feel this was intentional, it should get 20-25 games honestly. Imagine if that hit his neck? Or his head (ala Brashear). Hard to believe a broken jaw might be the best outcome for Lovell.

The fact the stick got stuck briefly may provide enough "grey" area for the league to not hold him fully responsible.

You should post this question (can you do a poll - Intentional/Accident?) in a busier forum than the Q forum, if there is one - to get more neutral responses.

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02-18-2013, 07:47 AM
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I want to say it was accidental and completely wreckless. It's going to be awfully tough to prove intent, because there will be a huge difference in the penalty if it was intentional. If it was accidental, then perhaps 4 or 5 games would be fine. If it was intentional, at least 10, and it would probably be 13, which is the balance of Moncton's regular season.

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02-18-2013, 08:44 AM
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NS Bluenoser
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Originally Posted by Reesor01 View Post
I want to say it was accidental and completely wreckless. It's going to be awfully tough to prove intent, because there will be a huge difference in the penalty if it was intentional. If it was accidental, then perhaps 4 or 5 games would be fine. If it was intentional, at least 10, and it would probably be 13, which is the balance of Moncton's regular season.
If they deem it intentional, 10 games is way too light, and 13 games seems like they are basically rewarding the player by saying "don`t worry, you will be ok to go in playoffs". I think you make your judgement and hand out the suspension accordingly, not for when playoff start.

If that stick hits his throat, cutting it open and we see Lovell rolling around unable to breathe with a crushed larnyx (sp) etc, this swing makes national news and there would be pressure to give him a year suspension IMO. Same if it hits him in the head and Lovell falls to the ice unconscious and deals with months of concussion issues.

The fact Lovell stayed up and skated off softens the public reaction to it honestly. That was a big player, swinging his stick hard at a players head and breaking his jaw.

Imagine if Marty Frk did that to a Saulnier, breaking his jaw? The reaction from Moncton would be very different. Johnson has a history of playing on the edge against Halifax too.

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02-18-2013, 03:17 PM
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Kevin Forbes
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I was pretty vocal about this on Twitter right when it happened and then the following day. I was directly above where this happened and watched it all unfold live.

I think it's accidental. I think the slow-motion view makes it look a lot worse, because it makes it seem intentional. In reality, the "eye-contact" that is being used to draw intent lasts for less than a second and to me, appears to be part of the twisting motion that Johnston is doing as he tries to get his stick free and get out of there.

The play happened so fast (3 seconds by my count from the first yank until Johnston skating away) that if Lovell stayed down a bit longer, the stick misses completely or deflects off his helmet. If Lovell gets up a bit sooner, it hits his body. Unfortunate timing and carelessness with his stick by Johnston, but I don't buy into the theory of it being intentional.

The other thing to mention is that while this was happening, the play has already entered Moncton's zone. Johnston heads off, because he's way behind the play and the Moncton coach is screaming at him to get off the ice so they can complete a line change. At this point in the game, Halifax is up 4-2 and there is still about half a period left in the game.

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02-18-2013, 04:12 PM
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Intentional? No I don't think so.

Careless and extremely dangerous? You bet!

You need to send the message that being careless with your stick (and it causing a serious injury) is unacceptable and dangerous plays (intent or not) need to be punish.

I'd say 10-12 games would be fair.

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02-18-2013, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Forbes View Post
I was pretty vocal about this on Twitter right when it happened and then the following day. I was directly above where this happened and watched it all unfold live.

I think it's accidental. I think the slow-motion view makes it look a lot worse, because it makes it seem intentional. In reality, the "eye-contact" that is being used to draw intent lasts for less than a second and to me, appears to be part of the twisting motion that Johnston is doing as he tries to get his stick free and get out of there.

The play happened so fast (3 seconds by my count from the first yank until Johnston skating away) that if Lovell stayed down a bit longer, the stick misses completely or deflects off his helmet. If Lovell gets up a bit sooner, it hits his body. Unfortunate timing and carelessness with his stick by Johnston, but I don't buy into the theory of it being intentional.

The other thing to mention is that while this was happening, the play has already entered Moncton's zone. Johnston heads off, because he's way behind the play and the Moncton coach is screaming at him to get off the ice so they can complete a line change. At this point in the game, Halifax is up 4-2 and there is still about half a period left in the game.
These guys make split second decisions at high speed every game, all game... a couple seconds standing still is plenty time to know what you are doing. I watch it at full speed, and it still looks vicious and deliberate. My opinion doesn`t change because its slowed down - it only allows us to see it more clearly.

The more I look at it, the more I think there may be more to the that fact Lovell`s stick is resting on his. Its possible Johnson was just frustrated and swung his stick to knock Lovell`s off his... and accidentially clipped his face. Put yourself in that position, your pissed off and about to get back to the play, and this guy who just tried to hit you into the boards has his stick draped across your hands. You may just swing your stick as if to say "get the f&?$ off me".

Still though... I think if it was accidental he would have shown some reaction, not just took off skating.

I would hope that even if the league determines it was not, for sure, intentional... that they give him something significant for the dangerous act of swinging his stick like that.

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02-18-2013, 08:16 PM
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I was there and it happened very fast , well behind the play and I don't believe it was intentional. It's unfortunate that a player was seriously hurt and it does merrit a suspension but not based on the fact that it was intentional. IMO 5-8 games would be a fair punishment.

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02-18-2013, 09:36 PM
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Imagine for a second that Lovell was not even in the area. Why when the stick is freed would he rotate his wrists and swing the stick like a baseball bat ? That would be such an odd thing to do with no one around.

Also, if you do swing a stick recklessly and strike someone directly in the face wouldn't most people show some reaction to this ?

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02-18-2013, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c_robio View Post
Imagine for a second that Lovell was not even in the area. Why when the stick is freed would he rotate his wrists and swing the stick like a baseball bat ? That would be such an odd thing to do with no one around.

Also, if you do swing a stick recklessly and strike someone directly in the face wouldn't most people show some reaction to this ?
Ahhh, I haven't thought of it in that way ... Great point, supporting the theory that there was intent.

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02-19-2013, 08:09 AM
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May be time for for a rule change. Stick caught in the boards or glass should be treated like a broken stick and left alone by the player. Ive seen this happen at minor level and the stick cracked making it very dangerous

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02-19-2013, 11:27 AM
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Johnston suspended indefinitely as the league continues to look into the incident.

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02-19-2013, 08:46 PM
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RJQuack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NS Bluenoser View Post
You should post this question (can you do a poll - Intentional/Accident?) in a busier forum than the Q forum, if there is one - to get more neutral responses.
That would be a good idea... It would be nice to get an unbiased opinion because as a decision still needs to be made ... I'm guessing I'd post this in the polls section of HF to get more reaction....

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02-20-2013, 08:02 AM
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I say 10 games. I'm sure Johnston feels badly about the incident and there's no need to cause any more damage to his own junior career by handing down anything more severe.

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02-20-2013, 09:33 AM
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I say 10 games. I'm sure Johnston feels badly about the incident and there's no need to cause any more damage to his own junior career by handing down anything more severe.
Feeling bad is great...but, he is still responsible for his actions. I dont think damage to his career will have any factor in the leagues decision, nor should it.

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02-20-2013, 10:34 AM
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According to this link http://monctonsports.com/johnston-suspended/

this is a picture of the victim after his surgery...look of the size of the jaw...kinda gross


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02-20-2013, 12:13 PM
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According to this link http://monctonsports.com/johnston-suspended/

this is a picture of the victim after his surgery...look of the size of the jaw...kinda gross

Sweet jesus. Little bit of swelling eh. My face hurts just looking at it.

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02-20-2013, 04:57 PM
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I say 10 games. I'm sure Johnston feels badly about the incident and there's no need to cause any more damage to his own junior career by handing down anything more severe.
The suspension is not about causing damage to Johnston's career, it's about accepting responsibility for his actions against another individual. If Johnston has any kind of character (which I'm sure he has lots of) he will accept the suspension and move on rather than fret over damage to his junior career.

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02-21-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dgill View Post
The suspension is not about causing damage to Johnston's career, it's about accepting responsibility for his actions against another individual. If Johnston has any kind of character (which I'm sure he has lots of) he will accept the suspension and move on rather than fret over damage to his junior career.

you have to love the "biased" moncton paper reporting: Irving just making sure everyone knows that it was "unintentional".
Bottom line is your responsible to control your stick. He knew the halifax player was there, and what did he think was going to happen by pulling on the stick the way he did? I'm sure he didnt want to break Lovell's jaw, but, i'm also sure he wasnt trying to avoid him!!

Johnston's stick got caught in the glass, he pulled to get it free and it injured an opponent by accidentally striking him in the face. There was no penalty called. There was clearly no intent to injure, but with the QMJHL's inconsistent disciplinary measures you never know what punishment he could be given.

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02-21-2013, 08:58 AM
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@CH_WillyPalov: Ross Johnston suspended 15 games for his high stick on Brian Lovell.

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02-21-2013, 08:59 AM
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@CH_WillyPalov: Ross Johnston suspended 15 games for his high stick on Brian Lovell.

There you have it.

Edit: Missed it by THAT much.

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02-21-2013, 09:45 AM
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A bit extreme if you ask me. 5-10 game would have been more approriate. I think the league was under a bit of pressure due to the media this incident's been getting. Is there an appeal process ? Do you think Flynn will take that route or lick his wounds?

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02-21-2013, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildcatMapleLeafs28 View Post
A bit extreme if you ask me. 5-10 game would have been more approriate. I think the league was under a bit of pressure due to the media this incident's been getting. Is there an appeal process ? Do you think Flynn will take that route or lick his wounds?
I think he'll just like his wounds. Season's almost over, you've clinched a playoff spot, anything now is just to see where you'll finish. If this was a month ago, he may appeal, but I just don't see it happening now.

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02-21-2013, 11:42 AM
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ClemQ
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A bit extreme if you ask me. 5-10 game would have been more approriate. I think the league was under a bit of pressure due to the media this incident's been getting. Is there an appeal process ? Do you think Flynn will take that route or lick his wounds?
i disagree. i know your a fan, but, for a minute - think if this had happened to a moncton player. Would you still say 5-10 games is appropriate? bottom line - you have the control over your stick and your responsible for it.

he knew Lovell was there.... i'm sure he didnt mean to break his jaw...but he knew Lovell was there.

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