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Luongo for Grabovski

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:26 PM
  #451
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mantooth View Post
Put Luongo behind the leafs defense = Reimer....no point making the trade. Luongo's stats this year are no better than Riemer's and Riemer isn't playing the likes of Colorado, Edmonton and Calgary on a regular basis that would boost probably make his stats look even better.
Niether are we.

We have played one of those teams exactly once in our last 18 games.

And Luongo is totally better than Riemer. Saying otherwise is comical. And just shows Anti Luongo Bias.

I hate Chicago but you don't see me saying that Sharp is no better than Burrows.

The Leafs have been playing better than the Nuck recently, and Luongo generally does better when facing alot of work anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I would prefer Derek Roy to Grabovski. Plain and simple. I would rather have Grabo be our plan B. Is that wrong to say?
I wouldn't. Grabo is what we need. Ya the contract is bad but its only fair to take on.

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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
Ya...i hear his wife is leaning toward Edm or Winnepeg.
You can throw Calgary and Columbus in there too.

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:35 PM
  #452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
Well, that explain why Luongo and Schneider had good number in the past few year and now they show their true color behind an average team.

I can imagine how bad their number would be behind bad teams.
2000-01 Florida Panthers NHL 47 0 2 2628 107 6 5 2.44 12 24 7 1226 0.920 - - -
2000-01 Louisville Panthers AHL 3 0 0 178 10 0 0 3.38 1 2 0 111 0.917 - - -
2001-02 Florida Panthers NHL 58 1 2 3030 140 4 4 2.77 16 33 4 1513 0.915 - - -
2002-03 Florida Panthers NHL 65 0 4 3627 164 7 6 2.71 20 34 7 1847 0.918 - - -
2003-04 Florida Panthers NHL 73 3 2 4251 172 7 7 2.43 25 33 14 2303 0.931 - - -
2005-06 Florida Panthers NHL 75 3 2 4305 213 4 4 2.97 35 30 9 2275 0.914


Just terrible...amiright??

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:38 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
Not really it would be more like saying Iginla isnt an upgrade on Kadri.
No, because the point is based around using a ridiculously small sample size.

Like I have said, 100 shots and 3 goals is the difference between these goalies save % right now.

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03-21-2013, 07:38 PM
  #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
2000-01 Florida Panthers NHL 47 0 2 2628 107 6 5 2.44 12 24 7 1226 0.920 - - -
2000-01 Louisville Panthers AHL 3 0 0 178 10 0 0 3.38 1 2 0 111 0.917 - - -
2001-02 Florida Panthers NHL 58 1 2 3030 140 4 4 2.77 16 33 4 1513 0.915 - - -
2002-03 Florida Panthers NHL 65 0 4 3627 164 7 6 2.71 20 34 7 1847 0.918 - - -
2003-04 Florida Panthers NHL 73 3 2 4251 172 7 7 2.43 25 33 14 2303 0.931 - - -
2005-06 Florida Panthers NHL 75 3 2 4305 213 4 4 2.97 35 30 9 2275 0.914


Just terrible...amiright??
You are totally right, thus showing Crazycanuck is wrong in his theory about a team impact on goalie number!

So now lets give Toronto's goalies some credits! And let face it: Luongo is not himself so far this year, the bad play of the team isn't the explanation...

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03-21-2013, 07:40 PM
  #455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I wouldn't. Grabo is what we need. Ya the contract is bad but its only fair to take on.
I like Roys playmaking ability over Grabovskis. Roy is no slouch defensively, although Grabo is still better defensively.

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03-21-2013, 07:43 PM
  #456
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I like Roys playmaking ability over Grabovskis. Roy is no slouch defensively, although Grabo is still better defensively.
Grabovski has hihg compete level, works much harder, has more grit, exc. And has pretty good skills, Roy's playmaking ability may be a big higher but Grabovski is better everywhere else and has a better shot IMO.

Grabovski would fit in perfectly with Hansen and say Raymond or Higgins.

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03-21-2013, 07:44 PM
  #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
You are totally right, thus proving Crazycanuck wrong in his theory about team impact on goalie number!

So now lets give Toronto's goalies some credits! And let face it, Luongo is not himself so far this year, the bad play of the team isn't the explanation...

Feel free to look at those rosters. Those Panthers teams make the Leafs look like the Redwings of the last 10 years. 2003-2004 Mike Van Ryn was their 3rd leading scorer...

I try not to judge players based off of a ridiculously short sample.

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:45 PM
  #458
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
You are totally right, thus showing Crazycanuck is wrong in his theory about a team impact on goalie number!

So now lets give Toronto's goalies some credits! And let face it: Luongo is not himself so far this year, the bad play of the team isn't the explanation...
How is he not himself this year?

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:45 PM
  #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Grabovski has hihg compete level, works much harder, has more grit, exc. And has pretty good skills, Roy's playmaking ability may be a big higher but Grabovski is better everywhere else and has a better shot IMO.

Grabovski would fit in perfectly with Hansen and say Raymond or Higgins.
I am thinking more for the 2nd line with Kesler (which is why I prefer Roy to Grabo). I don't picture either being our 3C

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Old
03-21-2013, 07:49 PM
  #460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I am thinking more for the 2nd line with Kesler (which is why I prefer Roy to Grabo). I don't picture either being our 3C
I do. I think we have enough wingers and we desperately need a center.

And the better the center the better for us.

Daniel - Henrik - Burrows
Higgins - Kesler - Kassian
Raymond - Grabovski - Hansen

Then we still have Booth coming back to play on the 2nd later on (AMEX or Booth/Kes/Kass, Booth and Kass were playing great earlier on) and Schroeder as offensive depth.

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03-21-2013, 07:49 PM
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Feel free to look at those rosters. Those Panthers teams make the Leafs look like the Redwings of the last 10 years. 2003-2004 Mike Van Ryn was their 3rd leading scorer...

I try not to judge players based off of a ridiculously short sample.
if i remember well, Reimer even strength saves % was among the top 5 of the league in the past 2 years. Now with a greater sample size, it look like he is an above average goalie.

And you Know, Reimer now have 88 GP vs 91 for Schneider (including playoff). Should we judge them or not on their small sample size of games played?

For Luongo i agree, his bad season so far is probably due to a bad variance more than any other factor.

He is still getting older and the odds are that at 34yo next month, his best years are behind him....


Last edited by palindrom: 03-21-2013 at 07:56 PM.
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Old
03-21-2013, 07:52 PM
  #462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
How is he not himself this year?
His career saves % is .919

This year saves % .904

He is also the oldest Luongo he ever was.


Last edited by palindrom: 03-21-2013 at 08:06 PM.
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Old
03-21-2013, 08:11 PM
  #463
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
You realize 100 shots and 3 goals is all that separates Luongo and Reimer at this point right?
You really should use a sample size bigger than 15 games...




I can understand if you would prefer a deal around Grabovski and Stastny. That is a fair statement.

But to say Luongo isn't an improvement over Reimer is like saying "Perry isn't an upgrade on Kunitz"
I never said I was just basing it on this year, but they are fairly close now and in the next few years the difference isn't worth the hindrance of Luo contract. As The Podium it is more like Iginla vs Kadri, Iginla might be an upgrade this season maybe not for long and as it stands Kadri and Reimer aren't the problem with the Leafs and Luo isn't the solution.

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Old
03-21-2013, 08:17 PM
  #464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
His career saves % is .919

This year saves % .904

He is also the oldest Luongo he ever was.
I guess variables like our team being worse than ever, and him not playing the same amount of games so having a bad game (like the one against DET) take a bigger hit on your stats then they should, don't come into consideration at all when you throw out a stat and say he isn't the same because of it.

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03-21-2013, 08:21 PM
  #465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
You realize 100 shots and 3 goals is all that separates Luongo and Reimer at this point right?
You really should use a sample size bigger than 15 games...
If we use their career number then the upgrade mean Luongo should allow about 12-18 less goals per season.

But if we take into account their age, the odds are Luongo should decline and Reimer should improve. The gap become closer.

And if we take the contract into account, then the $ difference can be spends on a player whose impact on the team could be as positive as an upgrade to Luongo.

All this is without taking into account the lost of asset (Grabovski in this case) needed to acquire Luongo.

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03-21-2013, 08:24 PM
  #466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
I guess variables like our team being worse than ever, and him not playing the same amount of games so having a bad game (like the one against DET) take a bigger hit on your stats then they should, don't come into consideration at all when you throw out a stat and say he isn't the same because of it.
But kack zassian was pointing out that Florida had an even worse team than Vancouver now and still perform as an elite goalie, rarely having a bad game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
2000-01 Florida Panthers NHL 47 0 2 2628 107 6 5 2.44 12 24 7 1226 0.920 - - -
2000-01 Louisville Panthers AHL 3 0 0 178 10 0 0 3.38 1 2 0 111 0.917 - - -
2001-02 Florida Panthers NHL 58 1 2 3030 140 4 4 2.77 16 33 4 1513 0.915 - - -
2002-03 Florida Panthers NHL 65 0 4 3627 164 7 6 2.71 20 34 7 1847 0.918 - - -
2003-04 Florida Panthers NHL 73 3 2 4251 172 7 7 2.43 25 33 14 2303 0.931 - - -
2005-06 Florida Panthers NHL 75 3 2 4305 213 4 4 2.97 35 30 9 2275 0.914


Just terrible...amiright??
Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Feel free to look at those rosters. Those Panthers teams make the Leafs look like the Redwings of the last 10 years. 2003-2004 Mike Van Ryn was their 3rd leading scorer...
Vancouver playing badly should not be an excuse....

if its a valid excuse, it goes both way, you should entertain the possibility that Schneider could be an average goalie who had an elite team in front of him.

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03-21-2013, 08:35 PM
  #467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
But kack zassian was pointing out that Florida had an even worse team than Vancouver now and still perform as an elite goalie, rarely having a bad game.





Vancouver playing badly should not be an excuse....

if its a valid excuse, it goes both way, you should entertain the possibility that Schneider could be an average goalie who had an elite team in front of him.
You should entertain the possibility that Cory Schneider had a bad game or 2, but since has been great and won us alot of points.

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03-21-2013, 08:41 PM
  #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
You should entertain the possibility that Cory Schneider had a bad game or 2, but since has been great and won us alot of points.
I did entertain this possibility.

I still would rather have a goalie who doesn't have one or two bad game out of 15 games.

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03-21-2013, 08:56 PM
  #469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palindrom View Post
I did entertain this possibility.

I still would rather have a goalie who doesn't have one or two bad game out of 15 games.
I meant all year.

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03-21-2013, 09:09 PM
  #470
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Well, they let him shoot in the shootout tonight... and he did score a goal earlier.

I watch pretty much every game for both teams. Honestly i think Roy would be a better fit in Vancouver but kudos to the people who disagree. It's a great trade for the Leafs as I can only see this Grabovski situation worsening.

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03-21-2013, 09:37 PM
  #471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
If a deal were to be centered around Grabovski I would want to do it in the offseason.

I feel that if Vancouver could acquire Derek Roy from Dallas (or sign him in the offseason to ~5 million) it would make Grabovski pretty irrelevant (all while giving up less, or no assets).

Maybe Vancouver moves Schroeder for Derek Roy at the deadline, and re-signs him to 5x5. Then Vancouver would likely want to re-stock the cupboards in a Lu deal.
To all Canuck fans that want to make a deal for any center making more than 2.5 mil, you should all give your heads a shake especially for "Derek Roy at the deadline, and re-signs him to 5x5" or Grabovski at 5.5 mil for 5 yrs. what happens a week from now when Kesler comes back? what are you left with? a 3rd line center at 5+ mil? Seems like to me they'd be a bigger buyout priority than anybody else on the Canucks including Luongo, Ballard or Booth.

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03-21-2013, 09:40 PM
  #472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Also, Vancouvers cap situation is tough to really figure out.

I think its a foregone conclusion that Ballard will be a cap-casualty, and (until recently I didn't think Ballard was a serious candidate). However, he missed the beginning of the year with a groin injury, and finished it with a high ankle sprain (likely done for the year). Puts him in a more likely to be bought out position.

So thats 9 million accounted for, + Malhotras 2.5, and whatever goalie is moved.

Its kind of tough to know where we stand/what kind of players we can target until we get a bit more clarity. Too many moving pieces.
I think you mean Booth with a high ankle sprain

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Old
03-21-2013, 10:04 PM
  #473
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
No, because the point is based around using a ridiculously small sample size.

Like I have said, 100 shots and 3 goals is the difference between these goalies save % right now.
How not? How can you guarantee that its due to a small sample size rather than an older player on the decline and a younger player developing?

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03-21-2013, 11:16 PM
  #474
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This thread reminds me of the Schenn/JVR rumours leading up to the trade. Each team wanted players/picks added and valued their player more. Ended up just being a good old fashion swap, which could potentially happen here.

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03-22-2013, 12:21 AM
  #475
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Whats the consensus here?

Grabo+Scrivens+3rd

for

Luongo

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