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Game #30 -- Wed Mar 20, 2013 - Wild @ Red Wings - 7:30 p.m.|NBCSN, FS-D

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03-21-2013, 08:56 PM
  #601
RedMenace
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Originally Posted by Flowah View Post
Is this a thing? Being reality? Never heard it before.
It's an HF "meme" from a while back that I could never quite let go, along the same line as Bryzgalov's "Why you heff to be mad?" quote.

Anyway:

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In any case, it's strange that you think the only way you could learn from a player is to be on a line with him. Do you think Datsyuk picked up nothing from Yzerman, Shanahan, Larionov, Fedorov?

Every time Smith would have made a mistake, Lids would be on the bench helping him to understand what he should have done instead.
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Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
The process of learning the game goes beyond playing time with a player like Lidstrom. Smith could have learned from Lidstrom in the following ways, off the top of my head;

-Working out with him; learning what Lidstrom does/did to stay in the shape he did
-Pick his brain. Ask Lidstrom to go over tape with you. What should I be working on? What do you see I was doing well? Most importantly, what can I work on right now to improve my game instantly?
-Ask what adjustments he should make in the game during intermission
Wait, no, I think I've made myself as clear as mud here: I realize that while being on the same team for a full season certainly would have benefited him in many ways, it's not like he didn't have any opportunity at all; it's likely he did learn from him last season even though he didn't play with him much (through practices, team meetings, etc).

I just disagree with the assertion that he wasn't brought along soon enough. Again, I know I'm probably in the minority here, but that's life.

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Originally Posted by Brick Top View Post
That's a complicated concept for the Wings, though... I think they tend to hold their young talent back as much or more because they over-value loyalty to their vets and REALLY don't trust young guys in general rather than the player not being ready.
Well let's stop and think about it for a minute: Who have the coaches been in the last 20 years? Effectively Scotty Bowman and Mike Babcock (with just a pinch of Dave Lewis thrown in for flavor), who both heavily favor veteran players over young guys. If the coaches tell DHO "Hey guys, I'm not really going to have a spot for Young Player X, so he can either sit in the press box or go back and play with Team Y," what choice does Ops have other than to send the player to wherever they have a chance to continue developing?

Would you rather Smith have played 60+ games in Grand Rapids and been called up for 14, or played in 14 games and sat in the press box for 60+? Which would keep him sharper, sitting in the press box or playing hockey? Would Nyquist and Tatar be better served playing top-line minutes in Grand Rapids, or playing limited minutes in Detroit and rotating in and out of the lineup?

I know which I'd choose, and it's not the press box, let me tell you.

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That, or it's possible that the trust level afforded to young guys is directly proportional to their physical size... that would explain a LOT .
Hey, now there's a thought... let's run it by Mike "Size Queen" Babcock and see what he has to say.

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Look at Tatar this year, and how he performed on the 3rd line- he was effective and pretty much the lone offensive threat in the bottom 6. Instead of making room to keep him up, he's demoted to GR, the bottom 6 goes back to being a non-threat to score for the most part, and the offensive pressure is completely back on the top 2 lines. And Z's line is pretty inconsistent, while Datysuk is still dragging Justin "sing us a song, you're the Piano Man" Abdelkader around the ice.
Now here I agree with you. Again, Tatar has put almost 4 full years in with Grand Rapids, and I think he should be up full time already. His play shows it, whereas Nyquist and Smith still seem to be a little shaky.

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Well, okay then. Just letting you know that when someone tries to limit my kvetching, it's go time
*dodges* I would NEVER. *ducks*

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Even if Smith wasn't paired with Lidstrom extensively, watching Nick operate from the bench would probably benefit his game more than watching Doug Janik from the Griffins' bench. And I totally agree that he has to find his own game on the ice- he'll clearly be more physical and play a meaner game than Nick, which I look forward to seeing. I just think there's a lot he could have picked up from Lidstrom on defensive positioning, outlet passes, decision making and QB'ing the PP at the NHL level.
Watching game tape of Lidstrom and practicing with him should be an effective tool as well, if not quite as much so. And again, it's not like he didn't get to play, practice, and talk with him at all. You know what they say, "Some Lidstrom is better than no Lidstrom at all."

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Like all rookies, he was definitely going to struggle in his first full year. I just think it would have been much more beneficial to his career (and to the Wings defense) if he went through those struggles with better teammates on defense around him. He'd have been a year more experienced heading into this season, and been easier for Babs to trust on the ice.
And see, that's where I can't say one way or the other whether he would be better this season or not, because there's simply no way to know. Besides, it seems Babcock trusts him more than enough; he hasn't been a healthy scratch all year, has he? He plays in all situations, right? He plays an average of 18:25 a night, which is more than the other "young" guys Kindl and Lashoff (not by much, but it's there)...

Toss him into the fire, see if he swims. He's surviving right now, and I hope he does improve because he's got the potential.

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Of course, there's always the possibility that he won't live up to his 1st round pick status, and only turn out to be a 2nd/3rd pairing tweener who never really picks how to play competently in his own zone... that would suck.
Remember, the Wings drafted him almost 2 rounds ahead of where he was projected to go, so he's a 1st-round pick in the eyes of the Wings, but not necessarily anyone else. Once they get a couple of seasons under their belts, I think we could see a solid 2nd pairing of Smith and Lashoff and actually be relatively happy with it.


Last edited by RedMenace: 03-21-2013 at 09:01 PM.
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Old
03-21-2013, 09:25 PM
  #602
RedWingsNow*
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDrake View Post
The process of learning the game goes beyond playing time with a player like Lidstrom. Smith could have learned from Lidstrom in the following ways, off the top of my head;

-Working out with him; learning what Lidstrom does/did to stay in the shape he did
-Pick his brain. Ask Lidstrom to go over tape with you. What should I be working on? What do you see I was doing well? Most importantly, what can I work on right now to improve my game instantly?
-Ask what adjustments he should make in the game during intermission
He also could have been protected by a defense that included Lidstrom and Stuart. Right now, these kids can't afford mistakes because we've got two rookies and another relatively unproven D in Kindl out there. There aren't many steadying defenses on the blueline

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03-21-2013, 10:38 PM
  #603
Flowah
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
He also could have been protected by a defense that included Lidstrom and Stuart. Right now, these kids can't afford mistakes because we've got two rookies and another relatively unproven D in Kindl out there. There aren't many steadying defenses on the blueline
Smith, Lashoff, Kindl.

And their "stabilizing veteran D presence" is Quincey, Kronwall, Ericsson.

That's what you get when you wait until the very last possible second to start merging your young star talent with your aging star talent.

How is it not blindingly obvious that is a bad strategy?

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