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Trade Targets (Part II)

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Old
03-28-2013, 06:31 PM
  #301
OrrNumber4
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Originally Posted by hohosaregood View Post
Hypothetically, which players would you guys be willing to trade Hertl or Nieto or any of our other better prospects for.
Any player who is a more proven commodity who will be with the team for a long time. Either someone like Patrick Kane who is signed long-term, or someone like Taylor Hall who has youth on his side.

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03-28-2013, 06:58 PM
  #302
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Exactly. I love Thornton almost as much as Marleau, but it seems like I like Marleau way more because I need to defend him more.
I don't know why it always has to be a competition between these two players amongst the HF community. As soon as one guy makes a mistake the other guys fans are super quick to jump on him for it.

I love both of them and badly want to see them win in San Jose.

Also this year I feel like the Marleau heat has died down a lot. When Clowe is moved, Jumbo will for sure be the new whipping boy.

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03-28-2013, 08:01 PM
  #303
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Any player who is a more proven commodity who will be with the team for a long time. Either someone like Patrick Kane who is signed long-term, or someone like Taylor Hall who has youth on his side.
LOL
Come on. A young forward that is a proven commodity is a perfectly acceptable and realistic return. You have the right idea but are in the wrong galaxy when it comes to the caliber of that player. I would gladly trade Hertl for someone like Kyle Okposo. Young, physically gifted, fairly proven, and with the potential to thrive in a puck possession system.

I don't even know if the Islanders would bite. Granted, they did trade for a cap hit earlier this season, but Okposo is still young and he is the only RH shot (at least with any talent) that they have.

Patrick Kane and Taylor Hall are franchise players. Hall is by far the best of Edmonton's 3 young stars, and the most valuable. Hertl is not of the same sort as them, and never will be.

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03-28-2013, 09:47 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
Vlasic does many things that are quantified statistically. Unfortunately, the NHL is by in large still stuck in the dark ages when it comes to advanced performance metrics. And that is primarily because the mainstream media that covers the NHL, whether it be writers or television analysts (especially on NHL Network), are almost exclusively "old-school", traditionalist hockey men who much prefer to conform to what every other traditionalist, old-school hockey man says rather than try to provide readers or viewers with something new and innovative. The funny thing is that ESPN provides fantastic NHL coverage on it's website from Pierre Lebrun and Craig Custance, and has made a commitment to making advanced stats a very large part of their online coverage (it is all Insider though). Yet next to a great (and very in-depth) article by Custance on a potential Sharks' roster "reset", there is a video of Barry Melrose probably saying something typically accurate like "Marleau doesn't want to pay the price to score goals in the playoffs."

Honestly, NHL fans are actually far more knowledgeable and innovative about the sport than the people paid to talk about it. Mention Corsi or PDO or Fenwick or CorsiQualComp to Craig Button, who shows up on NHL Network and TSN quite often, and he might respond with "Douglas Murray is good at moving the puck." Which, BTW, he actually said on TSN last week. I was in a bar in Mexico, which happened to have TSN on, and I literally laughed out loud when I heard him say that. Maybe he meant to say, "the player with the puck is good at moving around Douglas Murray." Hell, the HockeyNews ranked Joe Thornton as the 40th best player in the NHL prior to this season. Even if you use points (12th in the NHL/4th in the West) or assists (3rd in the NHL), that doesn't make sense. But if you go to behindthenet, you will find that no player since they began tracking those stats (5 years) has posted a higher Corsi with a higher CorsiQualComp than Thornton did last year. He was outplaying elite competition at a rate only approached by two other players (who happened to be his linemates). Shows you how dominant that line was last year.

Anyways, my point is that Vlasic is all over the advanced stat sheets. Only two defensemen in the NHL last year posted a higher Corsi (on-ice shot diff) while facing a higher level of competition than Vlasic did. Both were 10-15 years older than him. One was a stud veteran (Kimmo Timonen) and the other was quite possibly the 2nd best defenseman of all-time. I know that the Sharks (along with Detroit and most of the other long-time puck possession teams) value Corsi and other advanced stats. That's why they locked him down long-term. Now, Vlasic and Boyle did play almost exclusively with the Thornton line, so they all did have something to do with the Corsi rate being so high. But the fact that they dominated such high competition as a 5 man unit is extremely impressive. Boyle, Thornton, Marleau, and Pavelski simply played keep away from the opposition like no other four-man unit could. But when Boyle happens to be behind the other teams net and Thornton blindly drops a pass to no one (both are common occurrences), someone had to clean up the mess.

Great post, and I agree - although to the eye test Vlasic has has some issues this year, have not spent time looking at his actual numbers though.

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03-28-2013, 09:57 PM
  #305
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Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
LOL
Come on. A young forward that is a proven commodity is a perfectly acceptable and realistic return. You have the right idea but are in the wrong galaxy when it comes to the caliber of that player. I would gladly trade Hertl for someone like Kyle Okposo. Young, physically gifted, fairly proven, and with the potential to thrive in a puck possession system.
I don't think I'd trade Hertl for Okposo. I agree that Hall and Kane are out of the question, but I'd prefer someone more consistent than Okposo. Maybe someone like Ennis (players like Pacioretty are probably out of reach as well).

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03-28-2013, 10:29 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
LOL
Come on. A young forward that is a proven commodity is a perfectly acceptable and realistic return. You have the right idea but are in the wrong galaxy when it comes to the caliber of that player. I would gladly trade Hertl for someone like Kyle Okposo. Young, physically gifted, fairly proven, and with the potential to thrive in a puck possession system.

I don't even know if the Islanders would bite. Granted, they did trade for a cap hit earlier this season, but Okposo is still young and he is the only RH shot (at least with any talent) that they have.

Patrick Kane and Taylor Hall are franchise players. Hall is by far the best of Edmonton's 3 young stars, and the most valuable. Hertl is not of the same sort as them, and never will be.
Okposo has been a major disappointment. The most he would develop into is nothing more than the third wheel on a top line or a decent 2nd line winger. I rather keep Hertl and see what he develops into.

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03-28-2013, 10:31 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Blades of Glory View Post
LOL
Come on. A young forward that is a proven commodity is a perfectly acceptable and realistic return. You have the right idea but are in the wrong galaxy when it comes to the caliber of that player. I would gladly trade Hertl for someone like Kyle Okposo. Young, physically gifted, fairly proven, and with the potential to thrive in a puck possession system.

I don't even know if the Islanders would bite. Granted, they did trade for a cap hit earlier this season, but Okposo is still young and he is the only RH shot (at least with any talent) that they have.

Patrick Kane and Taylor Hall are franchise players. Hall is by far the best of Edmonton's 3 young stars, and the most valuable. Hertl is not of the same sort as them, and never will be.
Eberle is better than Hall.

Right after I say that he makes a highlight goal too. lol.


Last edited by dwood16: 03-28-2013 at 10:34 PM. Reason: Eberle
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Old
03-28-2013, 11:23 PM
  #308
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Eberle is better than Hall..
No he isn't.

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03-28-2013, 11:36 PM
  #309
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I would love Zack Kassian on the Sharks. Don't wanna trade anyone good to the Nucks though with realignment happening.

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03-28-2013, 11:54 PM
  #310
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Mike Ashmore ‏@mashmore98 6h
Six teams have scouts in Philly tonight -- DAL, TB, CAR, SJ, WPG and DET.

Philly seems to be a potential seller and has wingers we could use.

Matt Clausen ‏@mattclausen 6h
So. San Jose has Scouts at the #Isles game tonight. This is getting...interesting

More interesting, apparently we've had scouts at the their last few games. Would love Grabner or Bailey, maybe Okposo. Grabner seems the most likely, he's been in the doghouse there all season.

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03-29-2013, 12:02 AM
  #311
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Mike Ashmore ‏@mashmore98 6h
Six teams have scouts in Philly tonight -- DAL, TB, CAR, SJ, WPG and DET.

Philly seems to be a potential seller and has wingers we could use.

Matt Clausen ‏@mattclausen 6h
So. San Jose has Scouts at the #Isles game tonight. This is getting...interesting

More interesting, apparently we've had scouts at the their last few games. Would love Grabner or Bailey, maybe Okposo. Grabner seems the most likely, he's been in the doghouse there all season.
Problem with the Isles is that we would have to give up prospects or picks to get any of their players. I don't think they would have any interest in Clowe.

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03-29-2013, 12:08 AM
  #312
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Yeah but this is the NHL where prospects which have 0 chance of amounting to anything can actually get you a decent return.

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03-29-2013, 12:09 AM
  #313
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Originally Posted by sharkbite3 View Post
I would love Zack Kassian on the Sharks. Don't wanna trade anyone good to the Nucks though with realignment happening.
Ugh no thanks.

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Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer View Post
Problem with the Isles is that we would have to give up prospects or picks to get any of their players. I don't think they would have any interest in Clowe.
Well the Isles got Grabner for free so we shouldnt have to give up too much. I honestly dont care for Bailey or Okposo.

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03-29-2013, 12:13 AM
  #314
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How about letting Hertl play before trading him mmmk?

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03-29-2013, 12:13 AM
  #315
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Mike Ashmore ‏@mashmore98 6h
Six teams have scouts in Philly tonight -- DAL, TB, CAR, SJ, WPG and DET.

Philly seems to be a potential seller and has wingers we could use.

Matt Clausen ‏@mattclausen 6h
So. San Jose has Scouts at the #Isles game tonight. This is getting...interesting

More interesting, apparently we've had scouts at the their last few games. Would love Grabner or Bailey, maybe Okposo. Grabner seems the most likely, he's been in the doghouse there all season.
Hertl for Briere and Pronger boom.

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03-29-2013, 12:15 AM
  #316
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Problem with the Isles is that we would have to give up prospects or picks to get any of their players. I don't think they would have any interest in Clowe.
They are currently right behind the Rangers, sitting in 9th tied with 35 pts. Their line up is really soft and its possible they might want some grit. Not saying that's the trade just saying its possible. More likely it wouldn't take much, pick and a prospect for Grabner. Oh and they have Pelech's brother, so we could always play that card.

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03-29-2013, 12:44 AM
  #317
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Matt Clausen ‏@mattclausen 6h
So. San Jose has Scouts at the #Isles game tonight. This is getting...interesting

More interesting, apparently we've had scouts at the their last few games. Would love Grabner or Bailey, maybe Okposo. Grabner seems the most likely, he's been in the doghouse there all season.
i like Bailey. he has a solid two-way game. the offensive side is still a bit untapped.

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03-29-2013, 01:08 AM
  #318
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How about we keep Tomas Hertl. He's damn good and while not a franchise player, I can see him at Getzlaf level if we get lucky. I really like his style of play and I think he can be an important player. What if we had traded Couture for a rental winger four years ago?

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03-29-2013, 01:10 AM
  #319
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How about we keep Tomas Hertl. He's damn good and while not a franchise player, I can see him at Getzlaf level if we get lucky. I really like his style of play and I think he can be an important player. What if we had traded Couture for a rental winger four years ago?
Getzlaf is a franchise player, but I agree with your point.

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03-29-2013, 01:11 AM
  #320
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How about we keep Tomas Hertl. He's damn good and while not a franchise player, I can see him at Getzlaf level if we get lucky. I really like his style of play and I think he can be an important player. What if we had traded Couture for a rental winger four years ago?
Let's not get carried away. BTW .. Getzlaf is kind of a franchise player.

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03-29-2013, 01:28 AM
  #321
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Mike Ashmore ‏@mashmore98 6h
Six teams have scouts in Philly tonight -- DAL, TB, CAR, SJ, WPG and DET.

Philly seems to be a potential seller and has wingers we could use.

Matt Clausen ‏@mattclausen 6h
So. San Jose has Scouts at the #Isles game tonight. This is getting...interesting

More interesting, apparently we've had scouts at the their last few games. Would love Grabner or Bailey, maybe Okposo. Grabner seems the most likely, he's been in the doghouse there all season.
I don't see a deal to be made between either Philly or the Isles. Sharks don't need to move anyone except possibly Clowe, Handzus, and Burish. Neither of those teams should be interested in those players currently. Sharks don't need to move anyone else at this time. I can see them being interested in an extra d-man just in case that wouldn't take a spot from Braun, Demers, or Irwin and maybe a backup goalie but neither team offers one worth pursuing really.

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03-29-2013, 01:54 AM
  #322
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Originally Posted by KirbyDots View Post
Mike Ashmore ‏@mashmore98 6h
Six teams have scouts in Philly tonight -- DAL, TB, CAR, SJ, WPG and DET.

Philly seems to be a potential seller and has wingers we could use.

Matt Clausen ‏@mattclausen 6h
So. San Jose has Scouts at the #Isles game tonight. This is getting...interesting

More interesting, apparently we've had scouts at the their last few games. Would love Grabner or Bailey, maybe Okposo. Grabner seems the most likely, he's been in the doghouse there all season.
No need to make a move with how we are playing now. We know how DW likes to "kick the tires", so that is what he is probably doing. If anything, we should dump Handzus.

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03-29-2013, 05:40 AM
  #323
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I don't see a deal to be made between either Philly or the Isles. Sharks don't need to move anyone except possibly Clowe, Handzus, and Burish. Neither of those teams should be interested in those players currently. Sharks don't need to move anyone else at this time. I can see them being interested in an extra d-man just in case that wouldn't take a spot from Braun, Demers, or Irwin and maybe a backup goalie but neither team offers one worth pursuing really.
With Isles looking at potentially losing both Streit and Visnovsky at the end of this season, they might have some interest in Boyle. Especially if they have a deal to move one of those two now.

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03-29-2013, 05:48 AM
  #324
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With Isles looking at potentially losing both Streit and Visnovsky at the end of this season, they might have some interest in Boyle. Especially if they have a deal to move one of those two now.
I almost want to say that DW has enough personal respect and affection for Boyle that he would not ever deal him to the Islanders. Unless they offered us Okposo. In which event we will be completely screwed as our only other defenseman capable of moving the puck at a level even remotely close to Boyle is actually currently the right wing on our first forward line. Ah, but then Okposo could replace him on Thornton's wing. I see it now! Well, I definitely do not see any scenario that involves Boyle leaving the Sharks mid-season. And if he did, the only New York team he would possible be headed to is certainly not the Islanders.

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03-29-2013, 07:21 AM
  #325
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With Isles looking at potentially losing both Streit and Visnovsky at the end of this season, they might have some interest in Boyle. Especially if they have a deal to move one of those two now.
Streit/Vis: isles are in extension talks to re-sign both. I like their chances of keeping Streit better. He's been with the team for almost 5 yrs, has /tiesthat Vis doesn't have. Isles also have 22 yr old pmd Donovan/De haan knocking on the nhl door. Snow who days ago told Newsday he was sticking with his youth movement, would not be mix for 36 yr old Boyle.

Okposo- his play has improved the last month.
One of the isles best forwards over that stretch. The Bailey-Nielsen-KO line has been their best line the last 2 weeks as they push for a low playoff seed. His inconsistent play and increasing salary in 2014-2015, may make him available in the future, but he's in one of his strong stretches. If Snow wouldn't trade him for a low return when he struggled, why would he trade him for a low return when he's playing well?

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