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Old
12-16-2013, 12:55 PM
  #1
Lafleurs Guy
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82 game totals

Since we're at the point in the season now that would've totalled up to 82 games when combined with last year, I wanted to see what Galchenyuk looked like. Then I figured I'd do it for a couple more players.

Here's what the players' 82 game season stats look like:

Galchenyuk 19 goals 48 points
Max 27 goals 54 points (69 games)
Plec 25 goals 55 points
Subban 62 points (76 games)
Markov 49 points
Gallagher 44 points (77 games)
Eller 47 points
DD 39 points
Gionta 43 points

Price .918 save percentage (65 games started) 36-23-6

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:05 PM
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Dagistitsyn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Since we're at the point in the season now that would've totalled up to 82 games when combined with last year, I wanted to see what Galchenyuk looked like. Then I figured I'd do it for a couple more players.

Here's what the players' 82 game season stats look like:

Galchenyuk 19 goals 48 points
Max 27 goals 54 points (69 games)
Plec 25 goals 55 points
Subban 62 points (76 games)
Markov 49 points
Gallagher 44 points (77 games)
Eller 47 points
DD 39 points
Gionta 43 points


Price .918 save percentage (65 games started) 36-23-6
Replace Gionta and see Plekanec's numbers increase. Instead of playing with someone who kills every single play and can rarely hit the side of a barn with his shot when it counts unless it's a slapper directly into the goalies chest from so far away I could stop it with my eyes closed.

Get rid of DD and see Pacioretty's numbers go up.. and because DD is just pure garbage and terribly misused which is taking away ice time for people who deserve it more.

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Old
12-16-2013, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Replace Gionta and see Plekanec's numbers increase. Instead of playing with someone who kills every single play and can rarely hit the side of a barn with his shot ...
Hey! Not fair! I've never seen a barn on the Habs ice so its no wonder he cant hit it. Give him a chance.

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12-16-2013, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
Since we're at the point in the season now that would've totalled up to 82 games when combined with last year, I wanted to see what Galchenyuk looked like. Then I figured I'd do it for a couple more players.

Here's what the players' 82 game season stats look like:

Galchenyuk 19 goals 48 points
Max 27 goals 54 points (69 games)
Plec 25 goals 55 points
Subban 62 points (76 games)
Markov 49 points
Gallagher 44 points (77 games)
Eller 47 points
DD 39 points
Gionta 43 points

Price .918 save percentage (65 games started) 36-23-6
And what's the coach's (team's) record?

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Old
12-16-2013, 08:40 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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And what's the coach's (team's) record?
The team's record is pretty stellar. 49 25 8 for an 82 game point record of 106.

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Old
12-16-2013, 08:48 PM
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LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Dagistitsyn View Post
Replace Gionta and see Plekanec's numbers increase. Instead of playing with someone who kills every single play and can rarely hit the side of a barn with his shot when it counts unless it's a slapper directly into the goalies chest from so far away I could stop it with my eyes closed.

Get rid of DD and see Pacioretty's numbers go up.. and because DD is just pure garbage and terribly misused which is taking away ice time for people who deserve it more.
To what?

Because of DD max gets easier minutes too. Without DD max won't improve his numbers that much, if at all.

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12-16-2013, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The team's record is pretty stellar. 49 25 8 for an 82 game point record of 106.
Compared to what the year before?

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12-16-2013, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
To what?

Because of DD max gets easier minutes too. Without DD max won't improve his numbers that much, if at all.
isnt it sad to think that for our most productive winger to succeed we HAVE to give him easy minutes on a 3rd line...

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12-16-2013, 09:02 PM
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Pathetic offense and this would still be a 106 pts season, give MT some credit or blame him for the lack of goals.

Overall I'm pleasantly surprised for sure.

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12-16-2013, 09:03 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
Compared to what the year before?
106 points is stellar no matter what.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
To what?

Because of DD max gets easier minutes too. Without DD max won't improve his numbers that much, if at all.
I think he would.

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Old
12-16-2013, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
isnt it sad to think that for our most productive winger to succeed we HAVE to give him easy minutes on a 3rd line...
Truthfully, when people blasted DD's 60 point season then awarded max 'star' pacioretty I was confused because they played the same minutes.

Max is a very good player but certainly not untouchable like some used to believe.

Really like the guy though but without those special minutes he doesn't get the nice goal streak he just had.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
106 points is stellar no matter what.

I think he would.
To what though?

You said:

Max 27 goals 54 points (69 games)

That's 32 goals, 64 points in 82 games. Do people think playing with Lars/Plekanec would jump him to say 40+ goals?

Last full NHL season 2011-12, only 4 people got 40 goals or more. It's a rare feat and I don't think Max has that type of talent. He's a 30 goal, 60-70 point 1st line winger. I think with a better center it's a plus, but harder minutes would balance it back. Obviously, I mean the centers we have, not star centers like Crosby, malkin or whatever.

I think the change would be negligible but I'd be happy to be proven wrong when he one day plays on Galchenyuk's wing when Chucky is more developed as an NHL player.

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12-16-2013, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
To what though?

You said:

Max 27 goals 54 points (69 games)

That's 32 goals, 64 points in 82 games. Do people think playing with Lars/Plekanec would jump him to say 40+ goals?

Last full NHL season 2011-12, only 4 people got 40 goals or more. It's a rare feat and I don't think Max has that type of talent. He's a 30 goal, 60-70 point 1st line winger. I think with a better center it's a plus, but harder minutes would balance it back. Obviously, I mean the centers we have, not star centers like Crosby, malkin or whatever.

I think the change would be negligible but I'd be happy to be proven wrong when he one day plays on Galchenyuk's wing when Chucky is more developed as an NHL player.
I think with a good center Max would be a 40 goal scorer. He's a legit first line LW. A little one dimensional but very good. DD has made some good plays to get him some of those goals (he did so earlier this week in fact) but for the most part Max creates these opportunities himself.

And Max goes ice cold for long stretches at a time followed by great scoring streaks. I think a good center would help improve that consistency because I think a good center would create opportunities that he wouldn't otherwise get. And if nothing else I think he'd get a lot more assists.

Eller's not a superstar but he's better than DD (more like a 2nd line center.) In pretty much every way I'd say he's better.

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12-16-2013, 11:01 PM
  #13
LyricalLyricist
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think with a good center Max would be a 40 goal scorer. He's a legit first line LW. A little one dimensional but very good. DD has made some good plays to get him some of those goals (he did so earlier this week in fact) but for the most part Max creates these opportunities himself.

And Max goes ice cold for long stretches at a time followed by great scoring streaks. I think a good center would help improve that consistency because I think a good center would create opportunities that he wouldn't otherwise get. And if nothing else I think he'd get a lot more assists.

Eller's not a superstar but he's better than DD (more like a 2nd line center.) In pretty much every way I'd say he's better.
Eller is a great core piece but I think he's overrated around here. Still, even with his increased size and the better year he's having, I'm doubtful on the level of change. I don't think he becomes a 40 goal scorer with Eller. I don't think he becomes a 40 goal scorer in general.

More assists for max? Maybe so but I still don't see it being a dramatic change.

MT should always be open to try new things though, especially when our offensive touch has been lacking as of it. That might be one of the things to attempt.

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12-16-2013, 11:07 PM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Eller is a great core piece but I think he's overrated around here. Still, even with his increased size and the better year he's having, I'm doubtful on the level of change. I don't think he becomes a 40 goal scorer with Eller. I don't think he becomes a 40 goal scorer in general.

More assists for max? Maybe so but I still don't see it being a dramatic change.

MT should always be open to try new things though, especially when our offensive touch has been lacking as of it. That might be one of the things to attempt.
Maybe not 40 goals with Eller but 40 goals with a legit top line center. I do think the totals would be better though and Eller's a hell of a lot better defensively.

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Old
12-17-2013, 01:01 AM
  #15
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Subban: 62pts
Plekanec: 57pts
Galchenyuk: 50pts
Pacioretty: 48pts
Markov: 46pts
Gallagher: 42pts
Eller: 41pts
Gionta: 39pts
Briere: 35pts
Desharnais: 32pts

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Old
12-17-2013, 01:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
The team's record is pretty stellar. 49 25 8 for an 82 game point record of 106.
Better than the 2007-2008 season...is this real life?!?!

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12-17-2013, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
106 points is stellar no matter what.
If results speak for themselves, and it's only been the equivalent of one full season, that's quite the turnaround isn't it? The coach and GM must be doing something right in spite of the constant bashing they're getting on this forum...

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12-17-2013, 08:58 PM
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These stats show that Carey Price, PK Subban, and Andrei Markov are the MVPs.

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12-18-2013, 01:11 AM
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Lafleurs Guy
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
If results speak for themselves, and it's only been the equivalent of one full season, that's quite the turnaround isn't it? The coach and GM must be doing something right in spite of the constant bashing they're getting on this forum...
I'm not sure how much credit MB deserves. The team was already built and the emergence of three young players as well as the return of Markov are a huge difference. We can credit MB for keeping them up and we can credit him for Prust. But that team was largely already built with young players who were on the cusp of coming into their prime.

As for MT, I think he deserves some credit. I hate some of the things he's done and have been vocal about it. But I think he's probably taken more abuse than he should. I didn't like Martin's passive system and last year MT seemed to come in with a more aggressive style that I liked. MT's biggest problem seems to be playing favourites with certain players, calling some out publicly and ice distribution.

Here's the bottom line: Our team for the first time in a long time has players with superstar talent. PK Subban is arguably the best blueliner in the game now and Price is playing like the best goalie in the league. You can give some credit to MT or MB (signing of Waite for example) but I think its just more of a case where these players have arrived. Price esp is largely responsible for our record this season.

Somebody asked me a while ago who I'd credit for the success we've had and the guy I'd primarily credit would be Trevor Timmins. Our asset management has sucked over the years. Our FA signings (Samsonov, Briere, Murray...) have been mostly underwhelming and we've gotten robbed at the trade table. One constant though has been incredible drafting.

Jury is still out on MB for me. Hated his offseason moves and I think we missed the boat on taking the next step. But Prust was a good signing and Waite is looking like a good hire right now (though again, Price might've improved anyway.)

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Old
12-18-2013, 01:19 AM
  #20
Et le But
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
These stats show that Carey Price, PK Subban, and Andrei Markov are the MVPs.
I think this is clearly the case even if you separate the seasons. Markov had a rough end to last season but he was still productive. Having him be your second best defenseman gives you an elite advantage.

For all of Gionta's weaknesses, he's still producing in an extremely difficult role. Really we have two consistent forwards in Plekanec and Pacioretty, and it's frustrating that Pacioretty fails to produce every time he's given a harder role. The rare chances he has played with Plekanec, he has continued to driven possession, but the team needs his goals and unfortunately those are most likely playing the exploitation role.

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12-18-2013, 01:42 AM
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I think this is clearly the case even if you separate the seasons. Markov had a rough end to last season but he was still productive. Having him be your second best defenseman gives you an elite advantage.

For all of Gionta's weaknesses, he's still producing in an extremely difficult role. Really we have two consistent forwards in Plekanec and Pacioretty, and it's frustrating that Pacioretty fails to produce every time he's given a harder role. The rare chances he has played with Plekanec, he has continued to driven possession, but the team needs his goals and unfortunately those are most likely playing the exploitation role.
Where does fails to produce every time he's been given a harder role come from? That has been the case this year, but that also seemed to con-incide with a rough injury recovery and its a very small sample.

When Pacioretty changed roles before this year (which is a rareity) he's done fine. Historically scores just as many goals with Plekanec in the two-way spot as he does with Desharnais. That's only been 315 minutes over three seasons, but his scoring numbers and on-ice results were all elite during those 5 hours. He didn't play exploitation minutes when he was with Gomez in his first big year either.


I'd be very comfortable putting Pacioretty in the, just generally good at hockey, catagory. Especially compared to other wingers. I think you can play him just about anywhere so long as he's healthy and get good results.

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12-18-2013, 09:42 AM
  #22
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Bergevin deserves the credit. He's brought in the toughness that both Gainey and Gauthier refused to bring and he's made the right decisions (with the exception of Briere) when it comes to player-personnel.

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12-19-2013, 09:50 AM
  #23
Lafleurs Guy
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Bergevin deserves the credit. He's brought in the toughness that both Gainey and Gauthier refused to bring and he's made the right decisions (with the exception of Briere) when it comes to player-personnel.
I think he deserves some credit... But he's been here for about a year and a half with the team already being built. He hasn't put his stamp on this team yet.

Based on our limited knowledge of what's happening behind the scenes it sounds as though he's greatly improved the team culture so he gets points from me there. Price is having a career year after a rough end to last season so the Waite move looks good. None of those are really concrete things that we can point to and say definitively made a difference in our success... just something that suggests it. Do we credit him for keeping up Galchenyuk and Gallagher? Or did they play their way onto the team regardless? Don't know. But those two players have made a big difference.

Transactionally where we can measure what he's done on the ice? I haven't been impressed. Briere, Parros, Murray? Bleech. I felt like we were ready to take a big step forward this season and missed a golden opportunity to do this. Prust was a good acquisition and I've already spoken at length on Subban. So no, not impressed so far from that perspective. We're winning games this year yes, but in large part its Price playing out of his mind. We've been mediocre on the ice for a while now esp the forwards.

Some folks have been quick to praise him and others already advocating his removal. Its premature for either. He simply hasn't done enough to be able to pass any kind of final judgement on anything yet. But he HAS to do better at the UFA table going forward. Last summer as far as I'm concerned was a disaster. The best that can be said about the signings is that they were short... and that's not good enough. And the sad thing is that there were UFAs that could've really helped us (Jagr being the most obvious.)

Who are our best players? - Price, Subban, Max, Plec, Markov, Galchenyuk and you could throw in Gallagher if you wanted to. With the exception of Markov and Plec, Timmins is the guy who's done the job. One thing we do as well or better than anybody is drafting. And that's been consistent no matter who the GM is. If you want to thank somebody, thank Trevor Timmins. And if he'd had his way we'd still have McD on this team.


Last edited by Lafleurs Guy: 12-19-2013 at 09:57 AM.
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Old
12-19-2013, 10:40 PM
  #24
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One other thing worth mentioning... A big reason why our record is as good as its been is because last season we didn't play against the West. That makes a huge difference because the West absolutely kicks the crap out of the East - and us - as we saw again tonight.

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12-20-2013, 11:33 AM
  #25
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I think he deserves some credit... But he's been here for about a year and a half with the team already being built. He hasn't put his stamp on this team yet.
He has: Prust, Murray and Parros to help in the toughness department and while some underplay it, players know how huge of a need it was... and Bergevin knows it as well having played in this league.

The problem is not Bergevin, it's in people's unrealistic expectations. One regular season in (82 games), this team has made a huge turnaround while building from within. That's enormous.

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