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How would you rate the teams in the West?

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Old
03-24-2013, 01:35 AM
  #226
LiquidSnake*
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Originally Posted by syz View Post
Minnesota was in the basement two weeks ago, and are still 10 points behind Anaheim and 13 behind Chicago?

That's sort of a colossal gap, even in an 82 game schedule. To consider them equal is laughable.
It's the expectations which are laughable.

They're tied with the Canucks for the division lead.

Their fans think they're elite.

Canucks fans think their team is garbage.

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03-24-2013, 01:35 AM
  #227
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Except they had games in hand on everyone around them...so yeah, of course I had reason to be optimistic. 14-5-1 since feb 9th. This hasn't been just a two week run for the Wild you know...
I use the Oilers as my barometer for how horrible the other teams are, and the Wild were only a couple of points up on them on March 3rd.

So yea, three weeks. My bad. A period in which they've lost to both Anaheim and Chicago, and beat up on Vancouver and Colorado twice each as they continue their descents.

Point is that putting the Wild with Anaheim or Chicago is asinine, something with which I'm sure you have already agreed with.

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Old
03-24-2013, 01:37 AM
  #228
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Tier 1
Chiacgo
LA
Vancouver
St. Louis
Anaheim

Tier 2
Minnesota

Tier 3
Detroit
Nashville
San Jose

Tier 4
Dallas
Phoenix

Tier 5
Columbus
Calgary
Edmonton
Colorado

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Old
03-24-2013, 01:38 AM
  #229
TaLoN
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
It's the expectations which are laughable.

They're tied with the Canucks for the division lead.

Their fans think they're elite.

Canucks fans think their team is garbage.
Uhh...no. Chicago and Anaheim are the only elite teams in the west. The Wild are right where I thought they'd be...fighting it out for the division in the next group below.

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03-24-2013, 01:44 AM
  #230
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Not sure I'm getting all the Minnesota love. A 30 game sample size doesn't make that team in the top tier or second tier.

I would put Chicago, Anaheim, St. Louis, LA, Vancouver, and maybe San Jose & Detroit over them. I would rank them in that third tier knocking on the door though to get into that second tier, but I'm not sold on them yet.

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03-24-2013, 01:45 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by syz View Post
I use the Oilers as my barometer for how horrible the other teams are, and the Wild were only a couple of points up on them on March 3rd.

So yea, three weeks. My bad. A period in which they've lost to both Anaheim and Chicago, and beat up on Vancouver and Colorado twice each as they continue their descents.

Point is that putting the Wild with Anaheim or Chicago is asinine, something with which I'm sure you have already agreed with.
I just disagreed with the basement claim. If the Wild were in the basement, so was pretty much everyone else if that was the case is all I'm saying. They were in just the jumbled mess before the west started showing any semblance of separation it's starting to show.

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03-24-2013, 01:49 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
I just disagreed with the basement claim. If the Wild were in the basement, so was pretty much everyone else if that was the case is all I'm saying. They were in just the jumbled mess before the west started showing any semblance of separation it's starting to show.
Wouldn't really agree with that, either. The west standings relay the same information now as they did three weeks ago: Chicago and Anaheim are miles ahead of everybody else, and the northwest division is awful. A two game winning/losing streak would still do plenty of weird **** to the bottom two thirds of the conference.

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03-24-2013, 01:49 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
Not sure I'm getting all the Minnesota love. A 30 game sample size doesn't make that team in the top tier or second tier.

I would put Chicago, Anaheim, St. Louis, LA, Vancouver, and maybe San Jose & Detroit over them. I would rank them in that third tier knocking on the door though to get into that second tier, but I'm not sold on them yet.
10-3-0 in the last 13. Losses to Ducks and Hawks only, with the Ducks goalie standing on his head before the Ducks scored twice in the last 5 minutes to win 2-1, while beating Vancouver twice, Detroit in Detroit and San Jose at home, but the Wild aren't as good as the teams they're beating at every turn...ok.


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03-24-2013, 01:53 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
10-3-0 in the last 13. Losses to Ducks and Hawks only, with the Ducks goalie standing on his head before the Ducks scored twice in the last 5 minutes to win 2-1, while beating Vancouver twice, Detroit in Detroit and San Jose at home, but the Wild aren't as good as the teams they're beating at every turn...ok.

Because 13 games is a large enough sample size to go off of? By that logic, Columbus would be right there with Minnesota when they just had their point streak snapped tonight.

I understand you are defensive when people don't pimp up your team, the same thing happened to the Blues last year, but you have to be realistic and basing anything off of a 13 game sample size is dumb.

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03-24-2013, 01:59 AM
  #235
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
Because 13 games is a large enough sample size to go off of? By that logic, Columbus would be right there with Minnesota when they just had their point streak snapped tonight.

I understand you are defensive when people don't pimp up your team, the same thing happened to the Blues last year, but you have to be realistic and basing anything off of a 13 game sample size is dumb.
I'm basing on the eye test when these guys play...accumulated all season long. The Wild are in that second tier like LA, because they struggled early before getting their ass in gear...just like LA. When they play these games, they usually outplay their opponent on both ends of the ice.

Columbus does not pass that same eye test, they are the definition of a team carried by goaltending.

The Wild are carried by a Norris leading defenseman, their top line center and Captain, and a Calder caliber rookie defenseman.

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03-24-2013, 02:06 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
I'm basing on the eye test when these guys play...accumulated all season long. The Wild are in that second tier like LA, because they struggled early before getting their ass in gear...just like LA. When they play these games, they usually outplay their opponent on both ends of the ice.

Columbus does not pass that same eye test, they are the definition of a team carried by goaltending.

The Wild are carried by a Norris leading defenseman, their top line center and Captain, and a Calder caliber rookie defenseman.
The Wild are not just like LA. LA won the Stanley Cup and dominated while winning the cup. Remember when the Wild were in the top of the standings last season around the half way point? That didn't end so well. I realize they went out and bought two great players, but the point remains the same, this season isn't the same as an 82 game season as a lot more luck is involved.

Could the Wild win their division and make a run in the playoffs? Sure, so can any team though and I'm just not sold on them yet. They are on a nice little hot streak and fans are overreacting like most fans would.

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03-24-2013, 02:11 AM
  #237
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Yeah, because winning the cup last year means LA is so much better this year.

Sorry, different year, different teams. I'm judging based on the hockey I'm seeing...always do every year. There's a reason there is RARELY a repeat in the NHL playoffs. Those who stay static with their roster are always caught by those striving to improve.

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03-24-2013, 02:20 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Yeah, because winning the cup last year means LA is so much better this year.

Sorry, different year, different teams. I'm judging based on the hockey I'm seeing...always do every year. There's a reason there is RARELY a repeat in the NHL playoffs. Those who stay static with their roster are always caught by those striving to improve.
Well considering LA has basically the same roster this year that they had last year during their cup run, I'd say that it plays a pretty big role this year. I never said they were going to repeat, but if I had to choose between LA and Minnesota going forward and into the playoffs, I'm taking LA everyday. I think nearly everybody would do the same.

Why mess with a roster that just won a cup and won it with relative ease?

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03-24-2013, 02:35 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
Not sure I'm getting all the Minnesota love. A 30 game sample size doesn't make that team in the top tier or second tier.

I would put Chicago, Anaheim, St. Louis, LA, Vancouver, and maybe San Jose & Detroit over them. I would rank them in that third tier knocking on the door though to get into that second tier, but I'm not sold on them yet.
Wild are good. They picked up Suter and Parise last summer, are getting great contributions from their rookies (except for the ghost of Granlund) and are finally healthy this year. Rating them based on last year's team is disingenuous to this year's roster.

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03-24-2013, 02:46 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
10-3-0 in the last 13. Losses to Ducks and Hawks only, with the Ducks goalie standing on his head before the Ducks scored twice in the last 5 minutes to win 2-1, while beating Vancouver twice, Detroit in Detroit and San Jose at home, but the Wild aren't as good as the teams they're beating at every turn...ok.

Beating a crippled Vancouver team btw.

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03-24-2013, 02:50 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
It's the expectations which are laughable.

They're tied with the Canucks for the division lead.

Their fans think they're elite.

Canucks fans think their team is garbage.
Exactly. It's like the phenomenon of Kings fans suddenly thinking their team is the best at everything since they won the cup. Same with Bruins fans before that. And Chicago. And ect.

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03-24-2013, 02:52 AM
  #242
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Exactly. It's like the phenomenon of Kings fans suddenly thinking their team is the best at everything since they won the cup. Same with Bruins fans before that. And Chicago. And ect.
Those teams actually won cups though. The Wild are on a roll for the last little bit. Big difference.

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03-24-2013, 02:53 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
Well considering LA has basically the same roster this year that they had last year during their cup run, I'd say that it plays a pretty big role this year. I never said they were going to repeat, but if I had to choose between LA and Minnesota going forward and into the playoffs, I'm taking LA everyday. I think nearly everybody would do the same.

Why mess with a roster that just won a cup and won it with relative ease?
Because every roster has it's weakness, and because everyone else is improving their team to better matchup with yours. Dynasty teams are dynasties by staying ahead of the competition, not by sitting still and letting the competition catch them.

The Wild had over 40% roster turnover, including the top two ufa players who are playing up to their contacts, they are healthy unlike last season when they lost 5 of their top 6 at the same time to injuries, and due to quality play from their rookies, they have depth on their roster and in the system waiting to be called if needed.

Last year's Wild team is nothing like this year's. Most people expected the Wild to give the Canucks a run for the division this year...they are doing so. Last year when the Wild were on top of the west...most Wild fans were just hoping to get a playoff spot out of it...nobody expected it to last because you could see they were overachievers...unfortunately injuries never gave them a chance to see if they could have even made it to the playoffs.

It's different when a team is playing to expectation vs playing far above their heads.

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03-24-2013, 02:54 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
Those teams actually won cups though. The Wild are on a roll for the last little bit. Big difference.
My point is fans not used to success are quick to overrate how good their team is when they start to turn the corner. It's human nature. Look at the Wing's board on the past 3 years. You'd think we were a basement dweller with the way our posters are reacting but we've still been a top half team.

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03-24-2013, 02:56 AM
  #245
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
Exactly. It's like the phenomenon of Kings fans suddenly thinking their team is the best at everything since they won the cup. Same with Bruins fans before that. And Chicago. And ect.
Again...when has ANY Wild fan called the Wild elite? 2nd tier team is obviously less than elite.

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03-24-2013, 02:59 AM
  #246
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Beating a crippled Vancouver team btw.
So crippled they beat those vaunted Kings.

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03-24-2013, 03:05 AM
  #247
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Top of conference:
Anaheim
Chicago

Likely Playoff teams:
Los Angeles
Minnesota
St. Louis
Vancouver

On the bubble:
Columbus
Dallas
Detroit
Edmonton
Nashville
Phoenix
San Jose

Quit Winnin' for MacKinnon:
Calgary
Colorado

Numerous teams could move up or down a category with a winning/losing streak.

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03-24-2013, 03:06 AM
  #248
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Again...when has ANY Wild fan called the Wild elite? 2nd tier team is obviously less than elite.
well Mkoivu9 said they are top tier which you might take as saying the Wild are elite.

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03-24-2013, 03:08 AM
  #249
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Originally Posted by diehardbluesfan View Post
Not sure I'm getting all the Minnesota love. A 30 game sample size doesn't make that team in the top tier or second tier.

I would put Chicago, Anaheim, St. Louis, LA, Vancouver, and maybe San Jose & Detroit over them. I would rank them in that third tier knocking on the door though to get into that second tier, but I'm not sold on them yet.
In fairness, the same can be said about Anaheim. The record is stronger, but Minnesota has been playing great hockey.

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03-24-2013, 03:09 AM
  #250
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This thread has been very good for a laugh. With a short season we're seeing all sorts of funny scenarios but if anyone thinks that Anaheim is the second best team in the West, I need only to point you to the last three seasons they've had to tell you that they have a long way yet to go. Good 20 games or so sure but c'mon. Vancouver is a lot better than people are giving them credit for and should be including amongst LA and Chicago as the elite of the conference.

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