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All-inclusive Bud Holloway Love/Hate Fest

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Old
07-13-2013, 01:43 AM
  #826
KingCanadain1976
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
I have to say I love the idea of our finally having some truly solid prospects battling it out for a spot on the team.

Sign Bud and let him compete with Pearson Frattin King and Clifford this year and try to keep around next year if he shows anything and let him compete against whoever is left over and Kitsyn for a spot.

I think Bud would earn a spot and do pretty well but if not signing him won't be a bad thing. If we don't that is fine too but we can't have too many talented kids competing for a spot imo.
I can see what ur saying about the more the competition the better. However I don`t see Bud leaving Sweden without a garentee of being on the roster for the year at least. He is not going to leave his team there to get stuck playing in Mancheaster. I think it would/could be a mistake to bring him over only to have to send him back. The fact that Tanner played a playoff game to me means management think hes ready to play nhl full time. Now maybe both pearson and halloway could make the team and we release king maybe the answer i dunno. Tanner has great chemisty with toffolli already with stoll i think they would make a rocking 3r line

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07-13-2013, 02:17 AM
  #827
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From everything I've read/heard, I could seriously see him disrupting the chemistry of our locker room.

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07-13-2013, 02:22 AM
  #828
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Originally Posted by Reclamation Project View Post
From everything I've read/heard, I could seriously see him disrupting the chemistry of our locker room.
I thought I read an interview DL has out there somewhere where he said that the locker room is filled with enough "character" that a bad apple could come in and the chemistry would not be affected (or something along those lines)....

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07-13-2013, 02:34 AM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Winger23 View Post
I thought I read an interview DL has out there somewhere where he said that the locker room is filled with enough "character" that a bad apple could come in and the chemistry would not be affected (or something along those lines)....
Don't you dare defend him!

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07-13-2013, 02:59 AM
  #830
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
now that Ryan has been traded are you going to change your username to Corey Perry Como?
Haha I'm not sure what I'll do, that's not a bad suggestion though.


Also, Holloway's indeed a RFA, not a group VI UFA. And if DL makes one last push like Tonellisghost says he is, I think they sign him for next year, based on everything else I've heard.

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07-13-2013, 03:03 AM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
Haha I'm not sure what I'll do, that's not a bad suggestion though.


Also, Holloway's indeed a RFA, not a group VI UFA. And if DL makes one last push like Tonellisghost says he is, I think they sign him for next year, based on everything else I've heard.
You've heard we might land him actually?

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07-13-2013, 03:06 AM
  #832
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Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
Haha I'm not sure what I'll do, that's not a bad suggestion though.


Also, Holloway's indeed a RFA, not a group VI UFA. And if DL makes one last push like Tonellisghost says he is, I think they sign him for next year, based on everything else I've heard.
And how do you justify that with the CBA?

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07-13-2013, 03:07 AM
  #833
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Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
Haha I'm not sure what I'll do, that's not a bad suggestion though.


Also, Holloway's indeed a RFA, not a group VI UFA. And if DL makes one last push like Tonellisghost says he is, I think they sign him for next year, based on everything else I've heard.
This has been over like 5 times in this thread.

He is UFA group V or VI what ever.

He has played enough Pro games to Qualify, also he is off his ELC.

Look back a few pages, it's written right into the new CBA.

Tollnell has said Bud has already turned down offers from other teams as well.

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07-13-2013, 03:15 AM
  #834
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
And how do you justify that with the CBA?
Gave my best guess a few pages ago, that with the way it's worded, a player is only eligible for it if the SPC expires when they're 25 and haven't played 80 games, not when they've been unsigned since before then. If he signs and misses 3 or more games next year, he'll be a Group VI, but until then, he's still Kings property. I can only give guesses as to how that works out, but that's the scenario right now.

This shouldn't come as too much of a surprise, if he was on the open market, I'm sure he would've been snatched up some time ago. The Kings still having his rights is probably the only reason there are even discussions in the first place, with all the apparent bad blood. That, and too many teams where he'd have a better chance at not only cracking the roster, but cracking the top six.

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07-13-2013, 03:17 AM
  #835
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Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 View Post
You've heard we might land him actually?
Yes and no. Yes that last I heard, they were close, but no in the sense that it's just not enough. But, if DL makes one last push, I can't forsee why he wouldn't sign there. That's how close it is.

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07-13-2013, 03:28 AM
  #836
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Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
Gave my best guess a few pages ago, that with the way it's worded, a player is only eligible for it if the SPC expires when they're 25 and haven't played 80 games, not when they've been unsigned since before then. If he signs and misses 3 or more games next year, he'll be a Group VI, but until then, he's still Kings property. I can only give guesses as to how that works out, but that's the scenario right now.
Well ok, I will assume this what you talking about.

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Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
My best guess is that you have to be 25 before your contract expires, and not have your contract expire first and then wait until you're 25. Otherwise, no clue. I've been trying to figure this one out for a while as well.
And if you read the CBA, it is QUITE clear that you are not correct in your proposal. The CBA is completely clear that whether he is signed to a contract is COMPLETELY irrelevant to his Group VI UFA status.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gibsons Finest View Post
This shouldn't come as too much of a surprise, if he was on the open market, I'm sure he would've been snatched up some time ago. The Kings still having his rights is probably the only reason there are even discussions in the first place, with all the apparent bad blood. That, and too many teams where he'd have a better chance at not only cracking the roster, but cracking the top six.
So really you are making assumptions based on whether or not he has signed a contract yet on whether or not he is UFA. Let me remind you that core players like Jagr, Antropov, Hainsey, Raymond, etc have not yet signed. Just because Holloway has not signed yet does not affect whether he is UFA or not.

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Old
07-13-2013, 03:58 AM
  #837
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Well ok, I will assume this what you talking about.



And if you read the CBA, it is QUITE clear that you are not correct in your proposal. The CBA is completely clear that whether he is signed to a contract is COMPLETELY irrelevant to his Group VI UFA status.



So really you are making assumptions based on whether or not he has signed a contract yet on whether or not he is UFA. Let me remind you that core players like Jagr, Antropov, Hainsey, Raymond, etc have not yet signed. Just because Holloway has not signed yet does not affect whether he is UFA or not.
I'm working backwards here, having heard this for quite some time now. I too didn't see how, and that's the best I've got, but to me it makes a bit of sense. The way it's worded, that it's for a 25-year old whose SPC has expired and has played less than 80 games, could be interpreted in a way that doesn't include current RFAs. If you read the wording for group III free agency, it's actually worded very differently, and excludes this possibility(flat out mentions SPCs expiring in the past), so that's another reason I think this is a possibility. It also does mention in 10.1c(ii) that a group VI player becomes a UFA at the expiration of his SPC, but I'm not sure if that's relevant.

As for the speculation part, that's indeed just my own speculation. Doesn't mean anything either way. But, this also is still me working backwards.

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Old
07-13-2013, 05:23 AM
  #838
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Lets just hope we can sign Butt Holloway, you can never be too deep.

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07-13-2013, 05:34 AM
  #839
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
I think Carter is fairly comfortable at all three positions, and I'd think a line of Carter-Richards-Toffoli would be tried, though I think Williams will do better than Toffoli on that line. I could see Toffoli up with Kopi and Brown actually.
That's fine too.

Brown - Kopitar - Toffoli
Holloway - Richards - Carter
Frattin - Stoll - Williams
Clifford - Lewis - King/Nolan

I don't think it is wise to move Carter away from right wing, considering he lead the Western Conference last season in goals.

Hell, even this:

Brown - Kopitar - Toffoli
Williams - Richards - Carter
Holloway - Stoll - Frattin

It doesn't matter to me.

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Old
07-13-2013, 09:55 AM
  #840
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I can see what ur saying about the more the competition the better. However I don`t see Bud leaving Sweden without a garentee of being on the roster for the year at least. He is not going to leave his team there to get stuck playing in Mancheaster. I think it would/could be a mistake to bring him over only to have to send him back. The fact that Tanner played a playoff game to me means management think hes ready to play nhl full time. Now maybe both pearson and halloway could make the team and we release king maybe the answer i dunno. Tanner has great chemisty with toffolli already with stoll i think they would make a rocking 3r line
Your insight on Tanner having played in a playoff game is a solid insight. I agree with where you are coming from in regards to our likely having not put too much thought into bringing GBH back until this offseason.

That said Bud is without a contract in the SEL/SHL and doesn't have to declare with his team until tomorrow 7/15. There are allot of "if's" in this but if GBH made the team as our 13th we could showcase him for value or if we wanted to or if things didn't work out he could return to the SHL.

I don't think it matters too much. If GBH gets a contract from the Kings and stays then he has his chance to prove himself and make it in the NHL which is his goal as a hockey player and if it doesn't work he is happy in the SHL. With the huge amount of success he has had over there he won't have any trouble getting back to his team.

Either way we will have our answer by end of day tomorrow on where GBH will play.

I am happy that we are so deep that we can afford to let things play out with some of our talented kids in a manner that is best for the team in its entirety and still be able to reload with another solid prospect.

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Old
07-13-2013, 10:54 AM
  #841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
That said Bud is without a contract in the SEL/SHL and doesn't have to declare with his team until tomorrow 7/15.
No, Bud has a signed contract with Skellefteć over the next season. Though pretty much every SHL contract comes with an NHL out-clause.

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07-13-2013, 11:15 AM
  #842
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No, Bud has a signed contract with Skellefteć over the next season. Though pretty much every SHL contract comes with an NHL out-clause.
Thanks, I thought his contract had ended with Skelleftea this past season.

Doesn't change the point though. Bud isn't going to have a difficult time finding a place to play.

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07-13-2013, 11:21 AM
  #843
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according to capgeek, HOlloway is RFA...they tend to follow these things so they might be right.

The fact that he hasnt signed with another NHL team makes me think he is still RFA.

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Old
07-13-2013, 12:28 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by KingCanadain1976 View Post
I can see what ur saying about the more the competition the better. However I don`t see Bud leaving Sweden without a garentee of being on the roster for the year at least. He is not going to leave his team there to get stuck playing in Mancheaster.
The only way to guarantee he stays in the NHL all season long is with a No Movement Clause, and if he thinks some team is going to give him one without having played a single NHL game then he's likely also dumb enough to buy ocean front property in Manitoba.

He may get a one-way deal (meaning he gets paid his full salary whether in the minors or NHL) but he won't get a NMC.

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Old
07-13-2013, 02:26 PM
  #845
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
The only way to guarantee he stays in the NHL all season long is with a No Movement Clause, and if he thinks some team is going to give him one without having played a single NHL game then he's likely also dumb enough to buy ocean front property in Manitoba.

He may get a one-way deal (meaning he gets paid his full salary whether in the minors or NHL) but he won't get a NMC.
Nowhere have I ever heard GBH even hint at wanting a no movement clause. He has said that he wants a one way deal where if things don't work he would be allowed to return to the SHL.

I don't get why anyone would see what GBH is looking for as such a bad thing. He has place to play hockey that pays him very well and he likes to be. Sure he would like to play in the NHL but he believes and rightly so that he should get his shot. I mean the SEL/SHL is absolutely at least as good competitively as the AHL is and while there are differences to the style that the two leagues play it can be argued that both of them are great at developing different aspects of a young players game.

Bud was solid in the AHL and has proven himself to be an exceptionally solid prospect after his accomplishments in the SHL. Give him a 1 yr deal with an out that lets him return the SHL if it doesn't work and see what happens. I don't see the harm in that at all.

If he proves he belongs (which is by no means a certainty) then we have a really good LW who plays with a nice amount of edge on our team. If not out he goes.

To me its easy.

Nobody has said he is anything more than a very solid and developed prospect who is ready to prove that he either does or doesn't belong in the NHL. If that is equal to him being arrogant or claiming to give him #99 or anything else derogatory that has been said about Bud then I am seeing this thing entirely differently then a few of us.

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Old
07-13-2013, 08:49 PM
  #846
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So no Butt Holloway ey.

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07-13-2013, 09:17 PM
  #847
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Originally Posted by Tonellisghost View Post
Nowhere have I ever heard GBH even hint at wanting a no movement clause. He has said that he wants a one way deal where if things don't work he would be allowed to return to the SHL.

I don't get why anyone would see what GBH is looking for as such a bad thing. He has place to play hockey that pays him very well and he likes to be. Sure he would like to play in the NHL but he believes and rightly so that he should get his shot. I mean the SEL/SHL is absolutely at least as good competitively as the AHL is and while there are differences to the style that the two leagues play it can be argued that both of them are great at developing different aspects of a young players game.

Bud was solid in the AHL and has proven himself to be an exceptionally solid prospect after his accomplishments in the SHL. Give him a 1 yr deal with an out that lets him return the SHL if it doesn't work and see what happens. I don't see the harm in that at all.

If he proves he belongs (which is by no means a certainty) then we have a really good LW who plays with a nice amount of edge on our team. If not out he goes.

To me its easy.

Nobody has said he is anything more than a very solid and developed prospect who is ready to prove that he either does or doesn't belong in the NHL. If that is equal to him being arrogant or claiming to give him #99 or anything else derogatory that has been said about Bud then I am seeing this thing entirely differently then a few of us.
Nor was I implying Bud was seeking anything or doing anything derogatory, I was simply replying to the poster I quoted.

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07-13-2013, 11:11 PM
  #848
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Nor was I implying Bud was seeking anything or doing anything derogatory, I was simply replying to the poster I quoted.
Sorry kf if that seemed pointed at you. It was more just a rant. I shouldn't have quoted your post, that was my bad.

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07-13-2013, 11:13 PM
  #849
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Sorry kf if that seemed pointed at you. It was more just a rant. I shouldn't have quoted your post, that was my bad.
Sound's good.

I just hope Bud signs someplace by the 15th, just so we don't have another year of this.

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07-13-2013, 11:20 PM
  #850
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Sound's good.

I just hope Bud signs someplace by the 15th, just so we don't have another year of this.
I would be willing to bet that Bud is either signed by us (doubtful but outside possibility) or he is gone from the Kings. That much I would bet quite a bit on.

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