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Old
03-26-2013, 11:09 AM
  #376
CapitalsCupFantasy
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
15 pts in 19 games playing Hunter Hockey is not bad to be honest.

I thought he was absolutely needed in the playoffs. Personally (and this is just my eye test) he played very well after Hunter took over the team.
I'm not knocking Semin in this case, just debating the "we wouldn't have made the playoffs without him" comment. I thought he was good down the stretch last season. He also had some nice games against Boston, only to disappear in the 2nd round.

Overall, about par for the course with that player.

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03-26-2013, 11:10 AM
  #377
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
It is as simple as that.

It's all about knowing whether you're a legitimate contender or not.

The problem is, I don't think we have a GM that can properly assess that.

In 07-08, we also had the best player in the world and were looking at getting over the playoff hump. neither is the case here.
In 07-08 we had just missed the playoffs several years in a row and had a roster full of holes. Nylander and Clark were both out for prolonged periods of time. It didn't look good. We were still rebuilding the team.

We are trying to get over the playoff hump! We are trying to get past the 2nd round. We were 1 game away from the ECF last year and are a better team this year when healthy.

We are more a legit contender now than we were back then in 07-08.

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03-26-2013, 11:11 AM
  #378
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
It is as simple as that.

It's all about knowing whether you're a legitimate contender or not.

The problem is, I don't think we have a GM that can properly assess that.

In 07-08, we also had the best player in the world and were looking at getting over the playoff hump. neither is the case here.
No, its not as simple as that. Did anyone think LA was a legitimate contender last year? They added Carter and their offense got that much better. Rest is history. Using your logic, that is a struggling team shouldn't be adding anything but should be unloading UFAs, that would've never happened.

You gotta assess each team differently, each situation differently.

If the logic were as simple as you suggest, teams wouldn't be struggling to be competitive. 'Coz ya know, you follow that logic and things magically work out.

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03-26-2013, 11:12 AM
  #379
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
Seems like a simple formula. The valuable guys who are interested in staying you keep, the ones who want to test the market, or who you can't come to terms with in time, you move.
So if a player is retiring (lets assume) at the end of the year then you trade them without exception??

I'm trying to see where your bearings are.

My take is that if you can make it to the playoffs then do it! You don't have to add necessarily but DON'T subtract key pieces.

My reasoning is that once you get in the playoffs then ANYTHING can happen. History supports my reasoning.

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03-26-2013, 11:14 AM
  #380
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
In 07-08 we had just missed the playoffs several years in a row and had a roster full of holes. Nylander and Clark were both out for prolonged periods of time. It didn't look good. We were still rebuilding the team.

We are trying to get over the playoff hump! We are trying to get past the 2nd round. We were 1 game away from the ECF last year and are a better team this year when healthy.

We are more a legit contender now than we were back then.
You don't see the massive difference in situations? Ovechkin had never been in a playoff game. They needed to get into the postseason to get over that hump. Adding those players was a way to do it.

You're right, we're trying to get over a new hump with this team. However, this is not the season to try to get over that hump. not with the holes we have and how we've played for the vast majority of the year. We're not even over freaking .500 yet.

And the 07-08 team had much better depth in futures than this team.

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03-26-2013, 11:17 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Carlzner View Post
But it's okay for people to accept that things have changed just because of 3 games...?
You honestly think it's only been 3 games? Tell me with a straight face that the team whose played the last 15 games looks like the same team of the 1st 15 games.

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03-26-2013, 11:17 AM
  #382
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Originally Posted by tycoonheart View Post
No, its not as simple as that. Did anyone think LA was a legitimate contender last year? They added Carter and their offense got that much better. Rest is history. Using your logic, that is a struggling team shouldn't be adding anything but should be unloading UFAs, that would've never happened.

You gotta assess each team differently, each situation differently.

If the logic were as simple as you suggest, teams wouldn't be struggling to be competitive. 'Coz ya know, you follow that logic and things magically work out.
Why do people keep bringing up LA? They're not similar. They had much better defense, were a much better possession team, and had a Vezina-caliber goalie. They were out of it because they weren't getting the puck-luck.

My 'logic' is using a dispassionate evaluation of your team to determine whether or not you're a contender, and buying or selling accordingly.

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03-26-2013, 11:17 AM
  #383
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You don't see the massive difference in situations? Ovechkin had never been in a playoff game. They needed to get into the postseason to get over that hump. Adding those players was a way to do it.

You're right, we're trying to get over a new hump with this team. However, this is not the season to try to get over that hump. not with the holes we have and how we've played for the vast majority of the year. We're not even over freaking .500 yet.

And the 07-08 team had much better depth in futures than this team.
So you agree that the 07-08 team was rebuilding?

Why are we not over .500 this year? Could it be learning a new system and a slew of injuries were the main cause? You would say no. I'd say a big YES.

This is a completely different team with Green, Orlov, Laich, MJ, Hillen, Erskine etc all healthy.

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03-26-2013, 11:18 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by BobRouse View Post
So if a player is retiring (lets assume) at the end of the year then you trade them without exception??

I'm trying to see where your bearings are.

My take is that if you can make it to the playoffs then do it! You don't have to add necessarily but DON'T subtract key pieces.

My reasoning is that once you get in the playoffs then ANYTHING can happen. History supports my reasoning.
A retiring player has little to no value. I'd move them if it's doing right by them and giving them a shot at a Cup, otherwise assuming we're playing well, you keep em.

I'm with you on the playoff notion. I do believe the idea that teams get hot and can make nice runs. I don't however subscribe to that as my primary strategy in building a Cup winner.

McPhee and Leonsis clearly believe in the puncher's chance methodology. Get in and you might just flop the nuts with 2, 7 off suit.

I just think it's near criminal to let elite talent walk for nothing.

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03-26-2013, 11:18 AM
  #385
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
You honestly think it's only been 3 games? Tell me with a straight face that the team whose played the last 15 games looks like the same team of the 1st 15 games.
When they've played good teams? Yes, they have.

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03-26-2013, 11:21 AM
  #386
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Why do people keep bringing up LA? They're not similar. They had much better defense, were a much better possession team, and had a Vezina-caliber goalie. They were out of it because they weren't getting the puck-luck.

My 'logic' is using a dispassionate evaluation of your team to determine whether or not you're a contender, and buying or selling accordingly.
They were struggling mightily on offense. Or does offense not matter in your evaluation? They were towards the bottom of the league for a looooong time.

Now since you love to add exceptions to your logic, add this one for the caps:

New coach. New system. No training cap. Started the season abysmal for those reasons. Inconsistent goalies.

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03-26-2013, 11:21 AM
  #387
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
When they've played good teams? Yes, they have.
Did you miss the Pens game last week? Yes we lost. But good lord they played a marvelous game.

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03-26-2013, 11:22 AM
  #388
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
When they've played good teams? Yes, they have.
We should be ok then right? There are no GOOD teams in the postseason. We'll be fine!



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03-26-2013, 11:22 AM
  #389
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
You don't see the massive difference in situations? Ovechkin had never been in a playoff game. They needed to get into the postseason to get over that hump. Adding those players was a way to do it.

You're right, we're trying to get over a new hump with this team. However, this is not the season to try to get over that hump. not with the holes we have and how we've played for the vast majority of the year. We're not even over freaking .500 yet.
And the 07-08 team had much better depth in futures than this team.
Couldn't disagree with you more. Every team outside of maybe two or three in the entire League has significant holes. We actually have very solid pieces and the three most important (19, 8, 70) are playing outstanding hockey right now.

For a few years we ran away with the President's Trophy and it got us no where in the post season. They're playing some of the best, and most disciplined hockey, I've seen the Caps play in I don't know how long. With realignment coming next year which will certainly increase our SOS and no dominant teams in the EC, why not make a run this year? They're playing good hockey and this is not the same team that started 2-8-1.

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03-26-2013, 11:23 AM
  #390
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So you agree that the 07-08 team was rebuilding?

Why are we not over .500 this year? Could it be learning a new system and a slew of injuries were the main cause? You would say no. I'd say a big YES.

This is a completely different team with Green, Orlov, Laich, MJ, Hillen, Erskine etc all healthy.
The 07-08 team was transitioning from rebuilding to competing.

We are not over .500 this year because we've not played well. Among the problems are the abysmal PK, inconsistent goalie play, propensity for the defense to get pinned in their own zone, and lack of finishing among the top-6.

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03-26-2013, 11:24 AM
  #391
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
When they've played good teams? Yes, they have.
Wow.

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03-26-2013, 11:25 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCupFantasy View Post
A retiring player has little to no value. I'd move them if it's doing right by them and giving them a shot at a Cup, otherwise assuming we're playing well, you keep em.

I'm with you on the playoff notion. I do believe the idea that teams get hot and can make nice runs. I don't however subscribe to that as my primary strategy in building a Cup winner.

McPhee and Leonsis clearly believe in the puncher's chance methodology. Get in and you might just flop the nuts with 2, 7 off suit.

I just think it's near criminal to let elite talent walk for nothing.
Do you think making the playoffs is nothing? Do you think having a shot (since anything can happen) at a SC is nothing?

I think you are underestimating these benefits. Psychologically, if nothing else, it would help the team and the players.

Again...show me some examples in the history of trade deadlining that a team in contention traded away their leading scorer for futures?

On the other hand I've seen plenty of borderline teams (96-97 Caps for example) trade their futures to make a run at a playoff spot. The annual Hossa, Kovlachuck sweepstakes style trades. This year it Iginla.

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03-26-2013, 11:25 AM
  #393
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
Couldn't disagree with you more. Every team outside of maybe two or three in the entire League has significant holes. We actually have very solid pieces and the three most important (19, 8, 70) are playing outstanding hockey right now.

For a few years we ran away with the President's Trophy and it got us no where in the post season. They're playing some of the best, and most disciplined hockey, I've seen the Caps play in I don't know how long. With realignment coming next year which will certainly increase our SOS and no dominant teams in the EC, why not make a run this year? They're playing good hockey and this is not the same team that started 2-8-1.
I feel like a broken record, but they have one win over a top-6 seed in the East outside of the division.

The even mediocre record is a mirage. It's making this team look a lot better than they are due to a ****-poor schedule.

Could they make a run in the playoffs? Sure. Anything can happen. You can have a John Druce or an Olie Kolzig performance. But the puncher's chance strategy is such a terrible way to go about things.

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03-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #394
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[QUOTE=NobodyBeatsTheWiz;62443155]The 07-08 team was transitioning from rebuilding to competing.

We are not over .500 this year because we've not played well. Among the problems are the abysmal PK, inconsistent goalie play, propensity for the defense to get pinned in their own zone, and lack of finishing among the top-6.[/QUOTE]

All of which have been drastically improved in their recent play. Again, do not comprehend how you are comparing a team that has 30 games under their belt to grasp their 3rd system in 2 years which is finally healthy to the same team that started this season.

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03-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #395
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
Wow.
Care to list their wins over good teams?

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03-26-2013, 11:26 AM
  #396
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post
Couldn't disagree with you more. Every team outside of maybe two or three in the entire League has significant holes. We actually have very solid pieces and the three most important (19, 8, 70) are playing outstanding hockey right now.

For a few years we ran away with the President's Trophy and it got us no where in the post season. They're playing some of the best, and most disciplined hockey, I've seen the Caps play in I don't know how long. With realignment coming next year which will certainly increase our SOS and no dominant teams in the EC, why not make a run this year? They're playing good hockey and this is not the same team that started 2-8-1.
With this defense, apparent lack of top-6 depth, and a goalie who lets in a softie a game more often than not, you think THIS is the year?

I'd say the Pens are plenty dominant in the East. Maybe throw in Montreal too. 1st and 4th best records in the NHL.

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03-26-2013, 11:27 AM
  #397
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Don't forget that making the playoffs means more money for Ted and the team. No way GMGM gets the green light to trade Ribs if they think he's the difference between making the playoffs and missing the playoffs. Even a first round exit is worth a few million.

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03-26-2013, 11:28 AM
  #398
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Originally Posted by AlexBrovechkin8 View Post

All of which have been drastically improved in their recent play. Again, do not comprehend how you are comparing a team that has 30 games under their belt to grasp their 3rd system in 2 years which is finally healthy to the same team that started this season.
The PK hasn't drastically improved, nor has the defense getting pinned. Goaltending has been more consistent, and the finishing has been better. But again, look at the competition. It's not unimportant.

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03-26-2013, 11:28 AM
  #399
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
The 07-08 team was transitioning from rebuilding to competing.

We are not over .500 this year because we've not played well. Among the problems are the abysmal PK, inconsistent goalie play, propensity for the defense to get pinned in their own zone, and lack of finishing among the top-6.


Again...where have these problems come from?

I contend it is learning a new system and injuries. We are in the top 3rd of the league in goals scored and have 3 players with double digit goals among our forwards.

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03-26-2013, 11:29 AM
  #400
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I feel like a broken record, but they have one win over a top-6 seed in the East outside of the division.

The even mediocre record is a mirage. It's making this team look a lot better than they are due to a ****-poor schedule.

Could they make a run in the playoffs? Sure. Anything can happen. You can have a John Druce or an Olie Kolzig performance. But the puncher's chance strategy is such a terrible way to go about things.
I guess we'll see. If they're a mediocre team then they'll go 4-4 in their next 8 against other mediocre teams.

What I don't get is how DC sports fans, especially a knowledgable one like yourself, can't see the difference between a team that is injured and learning to play with each other vs a team that is healthy and feeling comfortable in their system. Did you watch the Redskins last season? Are you following the Wiz this season?

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