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International Tournaments Discuss international tournaments such as the World Juniors, Olympic hockey, and Ice Hockey World Championships, as they take place; or discuss past tournaments.

2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part V)

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:11 AM
  #751
Art of Sedinery
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Originally Posted by hersky77 View Post
I just like cam ward as a goalie, but what have Reimer, Dubnyk or Crawford done in order to deserve the third spot.
They have shown that they have the potential to be a difference maker in future Olympic games. If Luongo/Price (whoever the starter is) faulters, the other will be given a chance to take over. If that guy falters, then the tournament is likely over. The chance of the 3rd guy playing is slim to none.

Is Cam Ward going to help Canada in 2018? Likely not. He is not likely to improve at this point in his career and has shown he isn't much more than a "decent" goalie. Reimer, Dubnyk and Crawford have shown they are young guys who could potentially be a difference maker in 2018. I'm pretty sure that's why they took Fleury in 2010 at the time, though it didn't exactly work out that way.

Though Braden Holtby would be my first choice out of those guys.

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Old
05-22-2013, 12:39 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Art of Sedinery View Post
They have shown that they have the potential to be a difference maker in future Olympic games. If Luongo/Price (whoever the starter is) faulters, the other will be given a chance to take over. If that guy falters, then the tournament is likely over. The chance of the 3rd guy playing is slim to none.

Is Cam Ward going to help Canada in 2018? Likely not. He is not likely to improve at this point in his career and has shown he isn't much more than a "decent" goalie. Reimer, Dubnyk and Crawford have shown they are young guys who could potentially be a difference maker in 2018. I'm pretty sure that's why they took Fleury in 2010 at the time, though it didn't exactly work out that way.

Though Braden Holtby would be my first choice out of those guys.
No issue with you including Reimer in that trio but the other two aren't exactly young.

Dubnyk is 27 while Ward is 29 and I don't think Dubnyk has really done enough to separate himself from Ward. Corey Crawford is 28 and born the same year as Ward although at least he has had a good year.

Neither of them are really all that young though.

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Old
05-22-2013, 01:26 AM
  #753
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Brad or Mike Richards? Either way though, I'd rather have Spezza on there over either Richards. Iginla I think is on the fringe for me. He's not the player he used to be. I wouldn't mind seeing St. Louis on there actually. Hamhius is another one I don't think belongs. Campbell, Seabrook, or even Marc Staal should be on there over him.

I'm not sure if you put your line combos with purpose or not, but you can't have Getz and Perry on different lines!
Mike Richards. And I put him there, and Iginla. Because they make better 4th liners, we need some players who bring different elements, Iginla brings leadership and physicality, Richards is a great two-way forward and does alot of special things, Spezza's game is offense and there is already alot of offense in the upper part of this lineup.

And Hamhuis is among the most defensively reliable defenseman in the league. Seabrook is right handed, we don't need another right handed guy and I think Hamhuis is better than Marc Staal.

Also the lines are interchangeable I just put Perry with Crosby in this because I think they would go well together.

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05-22-2013, 03:25 AM
  #754
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You might want to think again. On international ice Hall will be even more of a threat than Seguin is. Hall is already clearly a better player and given more room to use his insane speed, he is a lock. Seguin hasn't done anything to warrant a spot on this team other than win a cup playing on the 4th line.
Ya that's why he tore it up at the WHC... he was a complete no show. Move on. Hall in 2018.

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05-22-2013, 03:29 AM
  #755
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Ya that's why he tore it up at the WHC... he was a complete no show. Move on. Hall in 2018.
He was a complete no show because Ruff clearly has an east coast bias, it was blatantly obvious to anyone who actually watched the games. Simmonds and Read had far more minutes than him, does that make them more likely to make the olympic team? Hell do you even think Duchene has a greater chance of making it than him?

Getting no ice time from a coach who doesn't even have a NHL job and won't be anywhere near the olympic team doesn't really affect Hall's chances. He is the best LW Canada has and there is a good chance he increases that gap next season as he gets better. Why would team Canada leave off their best LW?

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05-22-2013, 03:47 AM
  #756
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He was a complete no show because Ruff clearly has an east coast bias, it was blatantly obvious to anyone who actually watched the games. Simmonds and Read had far more minutes than him, does that make them more likely to make the olympic team? Hell do you even think Duchene has a greater chance of making it than him?

Getting no ice time from a coach who doesn't even have a NHL job and won't be anywhere near the olympic team doesn't really affect Hall's chances. He is the best LW Canada has and there is a good chance he increases that gap next season as he gets better. Why would team Canada leave off their best LW?
While I agree with you Ruff is an idiot coach and I didn't like HC selecting him to begin with, I had little confidence going in. Hall's performance can't all be blamed on the coach. He didn't do anything early against crappy teams that would justify increased minutes as the tourny went on. I like Hall, earlier I had him included on my roster along with Seguin, but given what I seen of Hall there, I can't ignore that as a coach's eastern bias. As of now, I lump Hall and E Kane in the same boat, young, skilled, NHL power forwards with hockey IQ that doesn't as of yet translate on to big ice. I've never been impressed with Kane at any of these WHC either. He's played in 3 I believe.

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05-22-2013, 03:56 AM
  #757
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While I agree with you Ruff is an idiot coach and I didn't like HC selecting him to begin with, I had little confidence going in. Hall's performance can't all be blamed on the coach. He didn't do anything early against crappy teams that would justify increased minutes as the tourny went on. I like Hall, earlier I had him included on my roster along with Seguin, but given what I seen of Hall there, I can't ignore that as a coach's eastern bias. As of now, I lump Hall and E Kane in the same boat, young, skilled, NHL power forwards with hockey IQ that doesn't as of yet translate on to big ice. I've never been impressed with Kane at any of these WHC either. He's played in 3 I believe.
I understand where you're coming from, but I don't see how you can lump them together. Like I've stated numerous times, I think Hall is the best natural LW Canada has, would you agree? Although he "struggled" early on in the tournament it is hard to get going when you're getting the 2nd least amount of icetime on the entire team. Hall and Duchene clearly cannot play on the same line because they both need the puck on their stick to succeed. The difference with that is Duchene gets the puck on his stick and tries to do it himself, whether that be deke or try to skate by the defence and get a shot on net. Every defender in the league knows Hall is one of the fastest players in the league, and in turn this opens up so much space for Hall's teammates to get open.

I can't see Hall not making the team for a couple of reasons. 1, he was the highest scoring Canadian in the entire western conference. If he is near that again next season there is no way they are keeping off the team for that reason alone. 2, he is their most dangerous LW which I would think most would agree with. Canada is simply not going to leave their best player at their highest position of need off the team, whether it be at #1 or #4.

And believe me, if RNH and Eberle had not been playing so poor this season this topic would not even be of discussion.

As for the big ice, I do agree it looked like Hall wasn't used to it. I don't see how a player with his talent and sheer speed could actually have trouble after a little getting used to. I know I'm coming off as a big supporter of Hall but I do watch a lot of hockey in general. It's just hard not to get excited for a kid that shows such dominance, not to mention he plays for my favorite team.

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05-22-2013, 04:03 AM
  #758
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I understand where you're coming from, but I don't see how you can lump them together. Like I've stated numerous times, I think Hall is the best natural LW Canada has, would you agree? Although he "struggled" early on in the tournament it is hard to get going when you're getting the 2nd least amount of icetime on the entire team. Hall and Duchene clearly cannot play on the same line because they both need the puck on their stick to succeed. The difference with that is Duchene gets the puck on his stick and tries to do it himself, whether that be deke or try to skate by the defence and get a shot on net. Every defender in the league knows Hall is one of the fastest players in the league, and in turn this opens up so much space for Hall's teammates to get open.

I can't see Hall not making the team for a couple of reasons. 1, he was the highest scoring Canadian in the entire western conference. If he is near that again next season there is no way they are keeping off the team for that reason alone. 2, he is their most dangerous LW which I would think most would agree with. Canada is simply not going to leave their best player at their highest position of need off the team, whether it be at #1 or #4.

And believe me, if RNH and Eberle had not been playing so poor this season this topic would not even be of discussion.

As for the big ice, I do agree it looked like Hall wasn't used to it. I don't see how a player with his talent and sheer speed could actually have trouble after a little getting used to. I know I'm coming off as a big supporter of Hall but I do watch a lot of hockey in general. It's just hard not to get excited for a kid that shows such dominance, not to mention he plays for my favorite team.
solid arguments. then tell me, where do you see him playing and with whom?

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05-22-2013, 04:12 AM
  #759
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solid arguments. then tell me, where do you see him playing and with whom?
I'm not entirely sure, as he clearly excels at being the driving force of a line. He backs defencemen up and usually dishes it to the trailer if he can't beat them wide. A shooter would be key, which was something he lacked this season with Eberle and RNH both having abysmal shooting %'s. Let's just say if he was on a line with Stamkos, Stamkos would have a large amount of opportunities from around the high slot and I think that's something we would all love to see.

Hall-Crosby-Stamkos

That is my dream line for obvious reasons, and IMO I don't know who else to slot in at LW beside those two.

Hall-Tavares-Perry

Another shooter in Tavares with a big body in Perry would cause problems for the opposition.

Look, this is basically a fantasy roster so it's hard to exactly specify who he would play with. All I know is that when he plays, he constantly creates opportunities by skating the puck up the ice and either flat beating the defence with his insane speed or dropping it back to the 3rd man in who will usually have a good opportunity for a shot. He would have had far more points if he played with players who had even average shooting %'s, so take your pick.

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05-22-2013, 04:18 AM
  #760
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I want Keith and Doughty to be paired together so we can call them "Dunkin Donuts"

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05-22-2013, 04:40 AM
  #761
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I'm not entirely sure, as he clearly excels at being the driving force of a line. He backs defencemen up and usually dishes it to the trailer if he can't beat them wide. A shooter would be key, which was something he lacked this season with Eberle and RNH both having abysmal shooting %'s. Let's just say if he was on a line with Stamkos, Stamkos would have a large amount of opportunities from around the high slot and I think that's something we would all love to see.

Hall-Crosby-Stamkos

That is my dream line for obvious reasons, and IMO I don't know who else to slot in at LW beside those two.

Hall-Tavares-Perry

Another shooter in Tavares with a big body in Perry would cause problems for the opposition.

Look, this is basically a fantasy roster so it's hard to exactly specify who he would play with. All I know is that when he plays, he constantly creates opportunities by skating the puck up the ice and either flat beating the defence with his insane speed or dropping it back to the 3rd man in who will usually have a good opportunity for a shot. He would have had far more points if he played with players who had even average shooting %'s, so take your pick.
The only possible line combo I see working that includes Hall would have Tavares @ center and Giroux@RW.

And I don't want Perry anywhere near the team. He hasn't done **** in years, is slow and will lead the tournament in PIMs, provides no flexibility in the line-up, strictly at RW..can't do anything else, and he doesn't even score that much anymore. A better option would be Jeff Carter. He can skate, he can score, he can play center or RW, can move up and down the lineup... Neither Perry nor Getzlaf are needed this time around. and if they are chosen, then I don't like our chances.

My views on both Perry and Getzlaf are well documented around these parts. well, at least you can't say I have any particular eastern or western bias. Perry being the Ontario boy and Getzlaf the good ol' western prairie kid.

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05-22-2013, 04:48 AM
  #762
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The only possible line combo I see working that includes Hall would have Tavares @ center and Giroux@RW.

And I don't want Perry anywhere near the team. He hasn't done **** in years, is slow and will lead the tournament in PIMs, provides no flexibility in the line-up, strictly at RW..can't do anything else, and he doesn't even score that much anymore. A better option would be Jeff Carter. He can skate, he can score, he can play center or RW, can move up and down the lineup... Neither Perry nor Getzlaf are needed this time around. and if they are chosen, then I don't like our chances.

My views on both Perry and Getzlaf are well documented around these parts. well, at least you can't say I have any particular eastern or western bias. Perry being the Ontario boy and Getzlaf the good ol' western prairie kid.
Who do you think will slot in with Crosby? If you have Tavares with Giroux then I'm assuming you'll have Stamkos with Crosby. I am not fond of Nash or even E.Staal for that matter, they are both too slow to be playing on the top line.

Why do you think Hall would not be a good fit with Crosby and Stamkos?

It's funny, I also am not exactly fond with Perry OR Getzlaf although Getzlaf did impress me this season, he really stepped up his play. Carter is just too slow IMO and will get exposed along with quite a few other players people have in their lineups. Speed kills on this ice.

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05-22-2013, 05:07 AM
  #763
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Who do you think will slot in with Crosby? If you have Tavares with Giroux then I'm assuming you'll have Stamkos with Crosby. I am not fond of Nash or even E.Staal for that matter, they are both too slow to be playing on the top line.

Why do you think Hall would not be a good fit with Crosby and Stamkos?

It's funny, I also am not exactly fond with Perry OR Getzlaf although Getzlaf did impress me this season, he really stepped up his play. Carter is just too slow IMO and will get exposed along with quite a few other players people have in their lineups. Speed kills on this ice.
I agree that speed kills on big ice....but you suggested Perry....you don't think Carter is a better skater than Perry? Both Getzlaf and Perry seemed to be somewhat revived as the season started, more so Getzlaf than Perry, but once the 2 signed their extensions, both disappeared, more so Perry than Getzlaf. I cringe every time I see somebody including them in a roster.

if Hall makes it, and JT is 2nd line center then that means Stamkos and MSL are with Crosby (my roster) but I'm not entirely sold that that line can work either. That's why opting for players that at least provide some flexibility is the way to go....you need to have options.... in the end, you may not agree that Seguin is the right choice for 4th. line RW especially if that means Hall is not on the team, but 4th.line RW is not going to be the deciding factor in Sochi. It comes down to the 4 centers whoever they will be only with the top 4 d-men...a controlled puck possession game will win in Sochi not pounding the Russians in the 1st period until they scream uncle.

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05-22-2013, 09:41 AM
  #764
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I agree that speed kills on big ice....but you suggested Perry....you don't think Carter is a better skater than Perry? Both Getzlaf and Perry seemed to be somewhat revived as the season started, more so Getzlaf than Perry, but once the 2 signed their extensions, both disappeared, more so Perry than Getzlaf. I cringe every time I see somebody including them in a roster.

if Hall makes it, and JT is 2nd line center then that means Stamkos and MSL are with Crosby (my roster) but I'm not entirely sold that that line can work either. That's why opting for players that at least provide some flexibility is the way to go....you need to have options.... in the end, you may not agree that Seguin is the right choice for 4th. line RW especially if that means Hall is not on the team, but 4th.line RW is not going to be the deciding factor in Sochi. It comes down to the 4 centers whoever they will be only with the top 4 d-men...a controlled puck possession game will win in Sochi not pounding the Russians in the 1st period until they scream uncle.

We will need to bring the BEST players available...it will NOT be enough to bring the BEST RW or the best LW or the BEST Center....

We need to bring the BEST available players...If the 13 best players are center, than bring those 13 players....they will adapt...

This is what USA does, they bring the BAPs this is why they are so good..same goes with Russia and Sweden....We dont bring the BAP, we bring the BAP at that position...It will not cut it anymore...

Seabrook is awful and i hope he goes nowhere near these team..

We need to build a Big Fast Defence....

Weber/ doughty
Subban/ bouwmeester
Pitrangelo / (Coburn/Myers/burns) <--depending who has the better year...
Staal / Keith

extra:
Letang
Girardi

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05-22-2013, 11:24 AM
  #765
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We will need to bring the BEST players available...it will NOT be enough to bring the BEST RW or the best LW or the BEST Center....

We need to bring the BEST available players...If the 13 best players are center, than bring those 13 players....they will adapt...

This is what USA does, they bring the BAPs this is why they are so good..same goes with Russia and Sweden....We dont bring the BAP, we bring the BAP at that position...It will not cut it anymore...

Seabrook is awful and i hope he goes nowhere near these team..

We need to build a Big Fast Defence....

Weber/ doughty
Subban/ bouwmeester
Pitrangelo / (Coburn/Myers/burns) <--depending who has the better year...
Staal / Keith

extra:
Letang
Girardi
You may want to check with Steve Yzerman on that. He has stated repeatedly his intention, as few players as possible not playing in their proper position. i.e. if you are center and have no experience playing RW and the need is RW, then you are out of luck. 2 maybe max will be playing out of position. Yzerman's words not mine.

I don't think I included Seabrook in my roster if that comment was directed to me or not...

Jesus, Coburn Myers or Burns??? Holy Smokes! Especially Myers. The dude has done nothing but regress for 2 years. Burns? he's proving in these playoffs he should have been a forward all along. Coburn? I'll leave that alone.

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05-22-2013, 12:09 PM
  #766
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I have 17 forwards in a bubble right now. These are the players I've been considering most since the second round of the playoffs started:


Patrice Bergeron, Jeff Carter, Logan Couture, Sidney Crosby, Matt Duchene, Ryan Getzlaf, Claude Giroux, Taylor Hall, Patrick Marleau, Rick Nash, Mike Richards, Patrick Sharp, Eric Staal, Steven Stamkos, Martin St. Louis, John Tavares, Jonathan Toews.


Next 11 players I think have a good shot to make the olympic team too, but I don't think they will or I would not take them now.


Jordan Eberle, Jarome Iginla, Evander Kane, Chris Kunitz, Andrew Ladd, James Neal, Corey Perry, Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, Jordan Staal and Joe Thornton.

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05-22-2013, 12:37 PM
  #767
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Iginla and Neal won't make the team - nor should they.

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05-22-2013, 01:45 PM
  #768
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God i hope Price is far far away from this team... (i know he won't be but one can pray)

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05-22-2013, 02:03 PM
  #769
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God i hope Price is far far away from this team... (i know he won't be but one can pray)
And replace him by who? Reimer?

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05-22-2013, 02:35 PM
  #770
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Sorry but if hall can only play with the big boys to secede on team Canada then he should not be apart of this team.

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05-22-2013, 09:35 PM
  #771
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I have 17 forwards in a bubble right now. These are the players I've been considering most since the second round of the playoffs started:


Patrice Bergeron, Jeff Carter, Logan Couture, Sidney Crosby, Matt Duchene, Ryan Getzlaf, Claude Giroux, Taylor Hall, Patrick Marleau, Rick Nash, Mike Richards, Patrick Sharp, Eric Staal, Steven Stamkos, Martin St. Louis, John Tavares, Jonathan Toews.


Next 11 players I think have a good shot to make the olympic team too, but I don't think they will or I would not take them now.


Jordan Eberle, Jarome Iginla, Evander Kane, Chris Kunitz, Andrew Ladd, James Neal, Corey Perry, Tyler Seguin, Jason Spezza, Jordan Staal and Joe Thornton.
Solid list. I have the exact 17, but i have Corey Perry as well (even though he did not have the best Playoffs), so i have 18 forwards for Sochi on my fantasy sheet. Canada can have 22 skaters for Sochi (14 forwards and 8 Defenseman), so i have been watching these Playoffs closely to see who stands out. Logan Couture has really won me over in these playoffs, while guys like Seguin have not. These playoffs and the first part of next year, are make it or break it times for a lot of guys.

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05-23-2013, 08:30 AM
  #772
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To all you people leaving Letang off your lists, you might want to think again. He's not the strongest defensively, but he's by far the best offensive defensemen we have (yes, better than Keith, Subban) and he'll be our PP1 quarterback. Had a 4 assist game last night, bringing him to 13 pts in 10 playoff games and a +4 rating. During the regular season, he had 38 pts in 35 games and was a +16. Do you think Karlsson isn't going to be playing big minutes for the Swedes despite his defensive shortcomings? We should expect no different with Letang.

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05-23-2013, 08:36 AM
  #773
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To all you people leaving Letang off your lists, you might want to think again. He's not the strongest defensively, but he's by far the best offensive defensemen we have (yes, better than Keith, Subban) and he'll be our PP1 quarterback. Had a 4 assist game last night, bringing him to 13 pts in 10 playoff games and a +4 rating. During the regular season, he had 38 pts in 35 games and was a +16. Do you think Karlsson isn't going to be playing big minutes for the Swedes despite his defensive shortcomings? We should expect no different with Letang.
Minor updates:


J. Tavares - S. Crosby - C. Giroux
T. Hall / J. Neal - S. Stamkos - M. St. Louis
M. Richards / L. Couture - J. Toews - R. Nash
E. Staal - R. Getzlaf - C. Perry
P. Bergeron
M. Duchene

S. Weber - D. Keith
K. Letang - P. Subban
D. Doughty - A. Pietrangelo
D. Hamhuis
B. Seabrook

C. Price
R. Luongo
C. Ward

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05-23-2013, 09:07 AM
  #774
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Minor updates:


J. Tavares - S. Crosby - C. Giroux
T. Hall / J. Neal - S. Stamkos - M. St. Louis
M. Richards / L. Couture - J. Toews - R. Nash
E. Staal - R. Getzlaf - C. Perry
P. Bergeron
M. Duchene

S. Weber - D. Keith
K. Letang - P. Subban
D. Doughty - A. Pietrangelo
D. Hamhuis
B. Seabrook

C. Price
R. Luongo
C. Ward
Minor update to your list:

J. Tavares - S. Crosby - C. Giroux
Lucic - S. Stamkos - Carter
Couture- J. Toews - R. Nash
E. Staal - R. Getzlaf - C. Perry
P. Bergeron
M. Duchene

S. Weber - D. Keith
K. Letang or Staal - P. Subban
D. Doughty - A. Pietrangelo
D. Hamhuis
B. Seabrook ->replaced by bouwmeester


C. Price replaced by Smith
R. Luongo
C. Ward

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05-23-2013, 09:50 AM
  #775
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why do i keep seeing lucic, hes just a 60 point forward with a physical game that will have very little impact in the olympics.

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