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Blues Trade Proposals - Part 5

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03-27-2013, 11:54 AM
  #201
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I want nothing to do with Coburn. He leads all NHL defenseman in giveaways. Not the kind of guy we need at this time.

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03-27-2013, 12:03 PM
  #202
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What about something around Halak for Khabibulin? Trade Elliott in a separate deal or something and go with Khabibulin and Allen down the stretch. I'm not sure what his contract is so I'm not taking that into consideration, but hopefully Khabibulin can help teach Allen a little bit and I think going to a contender could lift his spirits into playing a little better.

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03-27-2013, 12:11 PM
  #203
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I just wonder who the exact players are that aren't "buying-in." If it was everyone's favorite scapegoat on here, we wouldn't be having huge team problems, so the list should have multiple names on it. I'm expecting a pretty big trade at the draft now. Last night was a sign that the issues from the horrific stretch were not solved.

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03-27-2013, 12:15 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
I just wonder who the exact players are that aren't "buying-in." If it was everyone's favorite scapegoat on here, we wouldn't be having huge team problems, so the list should have multiple names on it. I'm expecting a pretty big trade at the draft now. Last night was a sign that the issues from the horrific stretch were not solved.
Here's my list (the biggest offenders) in order...

Tier 1
Perron
McDonald

Tier 2
Pietrangelo
Shattenkirk

Tier 3
Stewart
Berglund
Oshie

I left Backes, Steen, Tarasenko, and Schwartz off of the list because of their QoC and the other two are rookies. Everyone else has been good, isn't asked to do as much, or their struggles (Polak and Russell) aren't due to effort.


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03-27-2013, 12:19 PM
  #205
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Yeah but the frustration we have now is totally different than the homestand from hell frustration. Four games ago we were all feeling pretty good. Then the Blues go 1-3, outshooting their opponents 115-55 in the three losses and generally dominating play. It's a different kind of malaise at the moment.

I'm heartened to hear Armstrong was in the room with Hitchcock and the team leaders. I imagine it was Backes, Steen, Jackman, McDonald, Pietrangelo and maybe Oshie in that room. It sets up a very clear message that this thing, whatever it is, get solved in the next two games or the guy who can make trades is going to do so.

Big 36/48 hours for the Blues. DeKeyser's decision and the game against LA will each have a lot of influence on how Armstrong builds his team forward.

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03-27-2013, 12:24 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Here's my list (the biggest offenders) in order...

Tier 1
Perron
McDonald

Tier 2
Pietrangelo
Shattenkirk


Tier 3
Stewart
Berglund
Oshie

I left Backes, Steen, Tarasenko, and Schwartz off of the list because of their QoC and the other two are rookies. Everyone else has been good, isn't asked to do as much, or their struggles (Polak and Russell) aren't due to effort.
These don't make sense. Shattenkirk's play changed when Jackman went to play with Pietrangelo. Pietrangelo is going back to play defense first, effort and buying-in is not his problem IMO, I think coaches just wanted him to do everything, and he just doesn't have the partner yet to allow him to do that.

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03-27-2013, 12:37 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
These don't make sense. Shattenkirk's play changed when Jackman went to play with Pietrangelo. Pietrangelo is going back to play defense first, effort and buying-in is not his problem IMO, I think coaches just wanted him to do everything, and he just doesn't have the partner yet to allow him to do that.
The Shattenkirk observation is spot on. With Jacks, he was leading our team in points, but also playing pretty solid D. Now with Redden he's still playing solid D, but not posting the offense we came to expect from him.

Just another piece of evidence that we need to go find that ****ing partner for AP FFS.


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03-27-2013, 12:38 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
These don't make sense. Shattenkirk's play changed when Jackman went to play with Pietrangelo. Pietrangelo is going back to play defense first, effort and buying-in is not his problem IMO, I think coaches just wanted him to do everything, and he just doesn't have the partner yet to allow him to do that.
But, he's not doing what he's supposed to do on this team in this system. My expectations, along with damn near every poster on this site, is for 27 and 22 to become all-star quality players. They haven't done it. I don't care who they're playing with...And yes, I was also a poster who made note of the change of play with and without Jackman...But regardless, results are what counts, and Petro has been a shadow of his former self. Injuries? Maybe. Increased role and expectations? Likely. Partner? Don't give a hoot. He played with Poliocovo last year and deserved a Norris nomination.

Basically, they're not doing his job within the system, so I grilled them. That being said, I think most of it (27 & 22's struggles) falls back on the lack of backchecking by forwards, poor defensive zone coverage and pressure, and a much too obvious strategy to funnel pucks from the point.

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03-27-2013, 12:49 PM
  #209
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The entire Hitch system revolves around defensive responsibility. We can't be expecting Pietrangelo and Shattenkirk to be the catalysts for our offense as well while they don't have an appropriate partner.

The fact is that Jackman-Pietrangelo is an upgrade over Cole-Pietrangelo this season, but the Redden-Shattenkirk pairing more than takes away from that upgrade. I'd rather have Pietrangelo with a makeshift partner and a solid second pairing than the 2 makeshift pairings we are seeing.

If the model of this team is to build from the back, then the front office is a massive factor in our current situation.

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03-27-2013, 12:56 PM
  #210
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I think we are realizing just how not bad Colaiacovo was during the regular season.

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03-27-2013, 12:58 PM
  #211
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I could see us going after Klesla.

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03-27-2013, 01:04 PM
  #212
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Or just how good the forwards were defensively. And I've brought up Klesla before, as I think he's a better version of Jackman, but people have said he'd cost too much. Phoenix needs scoring forwards something fierce, but Perron should in no way be a centerpiece for Rusty. Yandle? You bet. Maybe a decent forward prospect and a 2nd/3rd?

Edit: Or, maybe a blockbuster. Perron and something small for Klesla, Gormley, and a pick/prospect?

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03-27-2013, 01:07 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Or just how good the forwards were defensively. And I've brought up Klesla before, as I think he's a better version of Jackman, but people have said he'd cost too much. Phoenix needs scoring forwards something fierce, but Perron should in no way be a centerpiece for Rusty. Yandle? You bet. Maybe a decent forward prospect and a 2nd/3rd?
I agree with this. If Perron is going then Yandle has to be the guy, even though I don't think he is the best fit, but him and Pietrangelo would make a dynamic partnership.

I'd be willing to give up a 1st and a prospect for Klesla. All we need is a player similar to Jackman.

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03-27-2013, 01:07 PM
  #214
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I really like Perron but I'd move him in a package for Yandle.

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03-27-2013, 01:12 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
But, he's not doing what he's supposed to do on this team in this system. My expectations, along with damn near every poster on this site, is for 27 and 22 to become all-star quality players. They haven't done it. I don't care who they're playing with...And yes, I was also a poster who made note of the change of play with and without Jackman...But regardless, results are what counts, and Petro has been a shadow of his former self. Injuries? Maybe. Increased role and expectations? Likely. Partner? Don't give a hoot. He played with Poliocovo last year and deserved a Norris nomination.

Basically, they're not doing his job within the system, so I grilled them. That being said, I think most of it (27 & 22's struggles) falls back on the lack of backchecking by forwards, poor defensive zone coverage and pressure, and a much too obvious strategy to funnel pucks from the point.
I don't understand the frustration with Shattenkirk. He is playing exactly how I expected him to play. He's been good. His point totals have been consistent and he's been improving defensively each year. He could have been an All-Star this year if there was a game. On the 2nd pairing he's a great fit. Him and Jackman are a great pair, it's a shame that had to be broken up.

Now Pietrangelo on the other hand I agree has not been that good and that has to change.

Referring to the above posts, I would welcome Klesla.

I think the main players that have to improve are Pietrangelo, Perron, and McDonald. When you look at the differences between last season and this season, those are the 3 that have not nearly been as good.

Stewart has been better, Backes isn't providing offense but he still brings an all-around game that we can't lose, Shattenkirk, Jackman, Russell, Polak, Berglund, Steen, Oshie, Sobotka, Nichol, Porter have all been fine and no worse than last season. Schwartz and Tarasenko are rookies and have both looked pretty good. So who else is there that is causing this problem? Those three are the most frustrating ones here.

Pietrangelo will get it sorted out and he's not going anywhere anyways.

McDonald should not be back this offseason, and frankly I am just annoyed game by game with Perron. I really don't know what to do with him. On one hand we are set up nicely on LW with Perron, Schwartz, Steen, maybe Sobotka for the future, but I would definitely entertain a deal involving Perron. I just think he sticks out on this team, many times in a negative way.

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03-27-2013, 01:14 PM
  #216
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I really like Perron but I'd move him in a package for Yandle.
So would I. Would be a good move for both sides I think.

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03-27-2013, 01:16 PM
  #217
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I think it was Strickland today that said Phoenix would move Yandle for a #1 center. Obviously we can't offer that, but yeah if they would take Perron I do that in a heartbeat. Not expecting that to happen though.

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03-27-2013, 01:19 PM
  #218
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Perron for Giordano straight up?

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03-27-2013, 01:20 PM
  #219
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Perron for Giordano straight up?
Perron is worth more than Giordano I think.

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03-27-2013, 01:23 PM
  #220
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Perron for Giordano straight up?
We'd need more from Calgary. Giordano is good, but he isn't having a great year.

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03-27-2013, 01:36 PM
  #221
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I think it was Strickland today that said Phoenix would move Yandle for a #1 center. Obviously we can't offer that, but yeah if they would take Perron I do that in a heartbeat. Not expecting that to happen though.
Phoenix has consistently made that the price for Yandle and it's not a price we can pay, nor is it likely to be a price anyone will pay. I could see Philly trying to move Couturier for Yandle if they can also get the cap room from Briere being moved.

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03-27-2013, 01:41 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by PocketNines View Post
Phoenix has consistently made that the price for Yandle and it's not a price we can pay, nor is it likely to be a price anyone will pay. I could see Philly trying to move Couturier for Yandle if they can also get the cap room from Briere being moved.
Briere is out indefinitely with a concussion so I dont see him being moved anytime soon

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03-27-2013, 01:43 PM
  #223
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Briere is out indefinitely with a concussion so I dont see him being moved anytime soon
Probably will be bought out as soon as they can.

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03-27-2013, 01:44 PM
  #224
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Briere is out indefinitely with a concussion so I dont see him being moved anytime soon
Ah, missed that. Basically they need to clear cap room to do something like a Couturier for Yandle thing. But they are one team I could see paying that kind of price. Couturier is not a #1 center but I could see Phoenix biting on that offer anyway.

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03-27-2013, 01:50 PM
  #225
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Ah, missed that. Basically they need to clear cap room to do something like a Couturier for Yandle thing. But they are one team I could see paying that kind of price. Couturier is not a #1 center but I could see Phoenix biting on that offer anyway.
He's from Arizona too, right?

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