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Old
03-26-2013, 12:31 PM
  #751
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Why would you want nothing to do with a player that has put up solid numbers in the past, can play both sides of the puck, is one of the better shootout players in the league, and could potentially cost no assets?


I asked to trade for Jokinen for spare parts during the first month of the season and got flamed. How the tide has turned
He costs $3M next season. $3M that we need to retain guys who aren't currently on waivers because they aren't producing and lost their job to a rookie. I don't see the point in adding players because they're good in the shootout.

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03-26-2013, 12:31 PM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'd rather spend $3M next season on Hagelin and Stepan than allocate cap space for a guy like Jokinen.

We just added a skilled LW for the bottom six when we re-signed Zuccarello. No sense in bringing in another one who's older and more expensive.
Trade Gaborik and it all fits. I think that is the plan anyways over the off-season at the latest.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
MZA-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Jokinen-Miller
Pyatt-Boyle-Asham/Powe

When a team like the Rangers, who lacks any sort of skill players outside of the top-4 (Stepan, Nash, Gaborik, Richards) sees a player like this they should pounce. Adding MZA and Jokinen makes this team much deeper in terms of offensive capability and fitting him in next season shouldn't be a problem.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:32 PM
  #753
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
He costs $3M next season. $3M that we need to retain guys who aren't currently on waivers because they aren't producing and lost their job to a rookie. I don't see the point in adding players because they're good in the shootout.
He is more than just good at shootouts though. Move Pyatt, that's 1.55 right there. They need depth scoring. They need players who can create some offense.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:34 PM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Grind Jam Grind View Post
No team wanted to give ANY spare parts to Carolina for Jokinen.

When are we putting Stepan on waivers?
Actually, Carolina didn't want any spare parts. They want to shed his salary. Only legitimate reason he's being waived. But I guess it's a coincidence that he gets waived THE DAY after Semin signs a 5 year extension.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
You were flamed because you suggested he could take Stepan's spot. How the tides have turned.

By the way, Jokinen has scored 4 shootout goals on his last 16 attempts. Not anything great. We already have Nash and Zuccs who are near locks to score in the shootout, and Callahan/Gaborik are solid options as well. I'd rather not acquire players for their shootout skills, anyway, there are no shootouts in the playoffs.
At that point he probably could have. Step was brutal. How often does a player flip a switch literally overnight and start playing hockey? Either way, glad Step did it because this team goes nowhere if he doesn't consistently play how he's playing now. And the way this team's going I'll take every point we can get to get INTO the playoffs. We've lost what, 3 shootouts this year? That's 3 points on the table. Can't say we couldn't use an extra 3 points right now.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:35 PM
  #756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I asked to trade for Jokinen for spare parts during the first month of the season and got flamed. How the tide has turned
1. Suggest replacing Stepan as second line center with Jussi Jokinen.
2. Watch Stepan produce consistently.
3. Pretend that Jussi Jokinen getting waived somehow supports step 1.
4. Profit.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:35 PM
  #757
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The guy has had 65, 52 and 46 points in the last (3) years. He is struggling this season because his minutes have been eaten up by Skinner's return, Ruutu's return and the additions of Staal and Semin. The Rangers don't have that problem. They can easily put him in positions to score playing on the LW. They are loaded on the RW, weak on the LW. They are also weak at 3c.

Again, for no assets, this would be a good move. Replace Pyatt or Newbury with Jokinen? Yes. 11x/10.

This doesn't block anyone because next season, if they decide a young player is ready like Fasth (who is a RW, not a LW) or Lindberg (C not LW) they can move him. There will be teams looking for additions at the deadline again next season.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:38 PM
  #758
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I asked to trade for Jokinen for spare parts during the first month of the season and got flamed. How the tide has turned
Yeah they didn't trade for a player that wound up on waivers. Egg on our face.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:41 PM
  #759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Why would you want nothing to do with a player that has put up solid numbers in the past, can play both sides of the puck, is one of the better shootout players in the league, and could potentially cost no assets?


I asked to trade for Jokinen for spare parts during the first month of the season and got flamed. How the tide has turned
Its hard to glorify a previously held position that we should trade our first round pick from last year plus a third for a guy who is on waivers 2 months later.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:45 PM
  #760
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Say we trade Pyatt now (say for Torres - who is a UFA) and deal Asham in the offseason replacing him with Haley
It actually then fits with Jokinen
Cap wise at least
Just saying...

CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER

FORWARDS
Jussi Jokinen ($3.000m) / Brad Richards ($6.667m) / Marian Gaborik ($7.500m)
Carl Hagelin ($2.200m) / Derek Stepan ($2.600m) / Rick Nash ($7.800m)
Chris Kreider ($1.325m) / J.T. Miller ($1.244m) / Ryan Callahan ($4.275m)
Andrew Yogan, Mats Zuccarello, Jesper Fast or somebody else ($0.800m) / Brian Boyle ($1.700m) / Darroll Powe ($1.067m)
Micheal Haley ($0.600m)

DEFENSEMEN
Marc Staal ($3.975m) / Dan Girardi ($3.325m)
Michael Del Zotto ($2.550m) / Anton Stralman ($1.700m)
Ryan McDonagh ($4.200m) / Dylan McIlrath ($1.295m)
Stu Bickel ($0.750m)

GOALTENDERS
Henrik Lundqvist ($6.875m)
Martin Biron ($1.300m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000
CAP PAYROLL: $65,585,000
BONUSES: $2,195,000
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $910,000

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:46 PM
  #761
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well the team lacks depth and this is a guy for nothing more than an investment of 1 yr at 3 million next yr.

he has been on waivers before and when picked up he started playing better. He seems really streaky.

At first I say no to the 3 Million cap hit next yr but if they are planning on moving Gaborik in the offseason then they could do this and still sign the RFA's

Jokinen and Zuccarello would give the team some new blood.

they should have a deal in place to move Boyle if this happens though, just get a pick

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:47 PM
  #762
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Well, you guys are going to have to agree to agree on this one, then.

As silly as it seems.

Look, acquiring Jokinen won't happen for two reasons. The first is he'll likely be picked up by one of the first five teams who has a shot at him. The second is, as RB has pointed out countless times, that NYR don't want to add salary for next season right now.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:48 PM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Well, you guys are going to have to agree to agree on this one, then.

As silly as it seems.

Look, acquiring Jokinen won't happen for two reasons. The first is he'll likely be picked up by one of the first five teams who has a shot at him. The second is, as RB has pointed out countless times, that NYR don't want to add salary for next season right now.
Are you sure there are other teams who would take him? There weren't many suitors for Hamrlik and he is a UFA at years end.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:49 PM
  #764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Trade Gaborik and it all fits. I think that is the plan anyways over the off-season at the latest.

Hagelin-Stepan-Nash
MZA-Richards-Callahan
Kreider-Jokinen-Miller
Pyatt-Boyle-Asham/Powe

When a team like the Rangers, who lacks any sort of skill players outside of the top-4 (Stepan, Nash, Gaborik, Richards) sees a player like this they should pounce. Adding MZA and Jokinen makes this team much deeper in terms of offensive capability and fitting him in next season shouldn't be a problem.
Trade Gaborik with very little money coming back and it all fits, you mean. Easier said than done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
He is more than just good at shootouts though. Move Pyatt, that's 1.55 right there. They need depth scoring. They need players who can create some offense.
Again, move Pyatt for what? He's signed for another season and the cap is coming down. Unless you move him for a prospect or pick, then you're still going to have to deal with cap issues. We need primary scoring, not just depth scoring.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:49 PM
  #765
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You didn't suggest Pyatt and spare parts, though, you suggested J.T. Miller and a 3rd.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:50 PM
  #766
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Jokinen had better than 150 points his last 3 seasons. For 3 million that will seem like a no-brainer to some teams without cap issues.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:51 PM
  #767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Trade Gaborik with very little money coming back and it all fits, you mean. Easier said than done.



Again, move Pyatt for what? He's signed for another season and the cap is coming down. Unless you move him for a prospect or pick, then you're still going to have to deal with cap issues. We need primary scoring, not just depth scoring.
I believe Gaborik can be moved for a top-4 d-man making much less than he is now + prospects/picks. Similar to the Staal return to Pittsburgh, especially if they wait until the off-season.

Pyatt for an upcoming UFA or prospect or pick. As has been mentioned before, Pyatt for Torres makes sense for where this team is and the type of player that would help this team right now.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:51 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
Powe
Halpern
Pyatt
Boyle
Miller

all been mainstays on the bottom 6 for quite some time, yet have produced nothing.

Should we leave them together to pray they get chemistry or start trying new things. the only revolving door has been that last spot (sans an injury to miller) that has allowed Haley, Asham, etc to get new chances.
The entire bottom 6 is being scapegoated to a degree, and thats my problem. Powe, Halpen, Boyle, Pyatt -- these guys have either never been big-time point producers or are a decade removed from such seasons.

I cant help but surmise that the original plan for the bottom 6 was to have a group that was defensively responsible. Those guys have done their job in that regard. But since the top 6, in particularly Gaborik and Richards, isnt getting it done, its time to revamp the bottom 6 with more offensively oriented players? Im not a huge fan of management acting upon the knee-jerk reactions of fans -- theres just no plan in place here, and its been an all too common theme of Sather's tenure.

People will be complaining just as much when we start losing games 5-4 instead of 2-1.

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Old
03-26-2013, 12:53 PM
  #769
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Jokinen had better than 150 points his last 3 seasons. For 3 million that will seem like a no-brainer to some teams without cap issues.
Quite a few of those teams at the bottom of the league have money issues. Not just cap issues.

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03-26-2013, 12:53 PM
  #770
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Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Its hard to glorify a previously held position that we should trade our first round pick from last year plus a third for a guy who is on waivers 2 months later.
It was more than that though. I proposed Miller + one of our 3rds for Jokinen + McBain type Defenseman. This was when we still had Halpern for C depth.

Would've been

Richards
Stepan
Boyle
Halpern

up the middle

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fitzy View Post
Well, you guys are going to have to agree to agree on this one, then.

As silly as it seems.

Look, acquiring Jokinen won't happen for two reasons. The first is he'll likely be picked up by one of the first five teams who has a shot at him. The second is, as RB has pointed out countless times, that NYR don't want to add salary for next season right now.
Agreed. As much as many of us want Jussi now, there's very little chance of it happening. No way the Fishsticks don't pick him up, and if they don't there's still no way he makes it to us. At which point Glen may feel his salary is an issue, which.. is ridiculous because trade/waive Pyatt.

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03-26-2013, 12:54 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The entire bottom 6 is being scapegoated to a degree, and thats my problem. Powe, Halpen, Boyle, Pyatt -- these guys have either never been big-time point producers or are a decade removed from such seasons.

I cant help but surmise that the original plan for the bottom 6 was to have a group that was defensively responsible. Those guys have done their job in that regard. But since the top 6, in particularly Gaborik and Richards, isnt getting it done, its time to revamp the bottom 6 with more offensively oriented players? Im not a huge fan of management acting upon the knee-jerk reactions of fans -- theres just no plan in place here, and its been an all too common theme of Sather's tenure.

People will be complaining just as much when we start losing games 5-4 instead of 2-1.
I think the plan was to have a defensively oriented bottom-6 THIS season. I think moving forward they were hoping they could infuse young players into the bottom-6 to create more offense. Unfortunately, due to Gaborik and Richards not providing offense, they have to look at speeding up that process. Adding a player who costs little to no assets who can help provide that is a good idea...

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03-26-2013, 12:56 PM
  #772
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If you have a goaltender like Lundqvist, it makes more statistical sense to build a high scoring, offensively minded club than a defensive, shell club.

That's my take on it. If we could get Henrik better than 3 goals a game it wouldn't matter too much if we allowed a few more chances.

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03-26-2013, 12:59 PM
  #773
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
The entire bottom 6 is being scapegoated to a degree, and thats my problem. Powe, Halpen, Boyle, Pyatt -- these guys have either never been big-time point producers or are a decade removed from such seasons.

I cant help but surmise that the original plan for the bottom 6 was to have a group that was defensively responsible. Those guys have done their job in that regard. But since the top 6, in particularly Gaborik and Richards, isnt getting it done, its time to revamp the bottom 6 with more offensively oriented players? Im not a huge fan of management acting upon the knee-jerk reactions of fans -- theres just no plan in place here, and its been an all too common theme of Sather's tenure.

People will be complaining just as much when we start losing games 5-4 instead of 2-1.
There's a difference between not being expected to provide offense and literally not providing any.

Powe - a whopping 0 points in 28 games this season
Halpern - a whopping 1 assist in 30 games this season
Boyle - A Whopping 2 points in 27 games this season
Miller - A whopping 4 points (2 in one game) in 22 games this season
Pyatt - An offensive dynamo with 6 points in 31 games this season and a whopping 1 point in his last 23 games.

Regardless of what you may believe about defense, you NEED some form of secondary scoring to win in this league. Our top guys (while not producing what i'd like them to be) can't be relied on 24/7 to win games. There is literally no offense coming from those bottom lines, none, zilch, zippo.

They need to be replaced to actually have some sort of threat out there. Kreider was a start. Zucc is another move in the right direction, Jokinen will be another if he gets to us. All those guys i listed (sans Miller, who should be back in the A for now) are dead weight this year.

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Old
03-26-2013, 01:02 PM
  #774
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we should try and pick jussi up.. i like that moving forward.. then as many as you said trade pyatt, asham, etc... get torres and we'll be in a lot better shape...

when do you only pay half his salary when hes recalled right?

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Old
03-26-2013, 01:04 PM
  #775
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we should try and pick jussi up.. i like that moving forward.. then as many as you said trade pyatt, asham, etc... get torres and we'll be in a lot better shape...

when do you only pay half his salary when hes recalled right?
They removed that in the new CBA.

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