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Old
03-26-2013, 02:24 PM
  #801
16 To Stanley*
 
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And adding Zuccarello with 18 games is all its gonna take, huh?

Even if Tortorella wasnt a stubborn SOB and tried to open up the system, there just simply isnt enough time to do it properly.

Not to mention I think that getting into a track meet with some of the teams in this conference/division is a very, very bad idea -- especially with a disengaged Gaborik and Richards doing his best impression of a 50 year old.
All i do is hear you repeat the same thing over and over. What do you think we should do. The coach isn't going anywhere, especially in a season after we went further than we have in 17 years with an owner who only cares about making $

It's a FACT the bottom lines weren't producing. Were they responsibly defensively, sure, but you can't have the level of production they were bringing. Unless you're an idiot of a fan you know that Jokinen and Zucc aren't the next comings of Christ. You know they aren't going to save this team from its bigger more foundational issues.

But what you can hope for is that they will bring offensive ability to a team that has proven to be completely inept in the offensive zone. A team that had absolutely NO production from its bottom 6. And you want to know something else, a lot of times if the top players like Gaborik, Richards, Nash, etc, see scoring from the bottom lines, than they start producing, knowing that the pressure isn't square on their shoulders.

With the combined 13 points from Pyatt, Boyle, Halpern, Powe and Miller we all know how every single game, if Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, Nash, Hagelin don't produce, we don't have a prayer.

I'm not making excuses for Gaborik, Richards, Nash, etc., but at some point you have to think it's weighing on them that they KNOW they have to score, night in and night out. Those bottom two lines that are getting around 20 mins a night combined, are not going to score.

While bringing up Kreider, re-signing Zucc and hopefully claiming Jokinen off the waiver wire may not be a perfect science or solution to the issue at hand, it's a start. A start that might parlay itself into building towards next season. At this point, i'm open to a start, because standing pat is not an answer. Not being able to muster anything against the florida panthers is not acceptable. Scoring 8 goals over 6 games is not acceptable. Being in the 8th spot in a ****** conference with the level of talent our top players have is not acceptable.


Last edited by 16 To Stanley*: 03-26-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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Old
03-26-2013, 02:33 PM
  #802
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
All i do is hear you repeat the same thing over and over. What do you think we should do. The coach isn't going anywhere, especially in a season after we went further than we have in 17 years with an owner who only cares about making $

It's a FACT the bottom lines weren't producing. Were they responsibly defensively, sure, but you can't have the level of production they were bringing. Unless you're an idiot of a fan you know that Jokinen and Zucc aren't the next comings of Christ. You know they aren't going to save this team from its bigger more foundational issues.

But what you can hope for is that they will bring offensive ability to a completely inept offensively creative team. A team that had absolute NO production from its bottom 6. And you want to know something else, a lot of times if the top players like Gaborik, Richards, Nash, etc, see scoring from the bottom lines, than they start producing, knowing that the pressure isn't square on their shoulders.

With the combined 13 points from Pyatt, Boyle, Halpern, Powe and Miller we all know how every single game, if Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, Nash, Hagelin don't produce, we don't have a prayer.

I'm not making excuses for Gaborik, Richards, Nash, etc., but at some point you have to think it's weighing on them that they KNOW they have to score, night in and night out. Those bottom two lines that are getting around 20 mins a night combined, are not going to score.

While bringing up Kreider, re-signing Zucc and hopefully claiming Jokinen off the waiver wire may not be a perfect science or solution to the issue at hand, it's a start. A start that might parlay itself into building towards next season. At this point, i'm open to a start, because standing pat is not an answer. Not being able to muster anything against the florida panthers is not acceptable. Scoring 8 goals over 6 games is not acceptable. Being in the 8th spot in a ****** conference with the level of talent our top players have is not acceptable.
Well pardon me if Im fed up to the point where Im beyond being placated by band-aid moves. Thats the type of way this organization has constructed a roster for the better part of 20 years now - 13 under Sather.

Change a coach here, change a couple of forwards there, sprinkle in a defensive man there, and present it as change. Usually its at the point where ANY change seems like a positive thing. That seems to be the state of mind you are in right about now.

I've seen this piss poor roster construction happen in much the same way for so long that I'm over getting excited about the prospects yet another makeover can potentially bring. GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

You mean to tell me a bottom 6 with Halpern, Boyle, Powe, and Pyatt weren't going to produce offensively? Holy ****!! Who could have foreseen this???!

Problem: Need offense
Solution: Bring over Zuccarello, apply band-aid on gunshot wound

Its so simple, predictable, and sad.

And, besides last year, its always stemmed from management putting together a roster of mismatched parts.

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Old
03-26-2013, 02:36 PM
  #803
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
All i do is hear you repeat the same thing over and over. What do you think we should do. The coach isn't going anywhere, especially in a season after we went further than we have in 17 years with an owner who only cares about making $

It's a FACT the bottom lines weren't producing. Were they responsibly defensively, sure, but you can't have the level of production they were bringing. Unless you're an idiot of a fan you know that Jokinen and Zucc aren't the next comings of Christ. You know they aren't going to save this team from its bigger more foundational issues.

But what you can hope for is that they will bring offensive ability to a team that has proven to be completely inept in the offensive zone. A team that had absolutely NO production from its bottom 6. And you want to know something else, a lot of times if the top players like Gaborik, Richards, Nash, etc, see scoring from the bottom lines, than they start producing, knowing that the pressure isn't square on their shoulders.

With the combined 13 points from Pyatt, Boyle, Halpern, Powe and Miller we all know how every single game, if Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, Nash, Hagelin don't produce, we don't have a prayer.

I'm not making excuses for Gaborik, Richards, Nash, etc., but at some point you have to think it's weighing on them that they KNOW they have to score, night in and night out. Those bottom two lines that are getting around 20 mins a night combined, are not going to score.

While bringing up Kreider, re-signing Zucc and hopefully claiming Jokinen off the waiver wire may not be a perfect science or solution to the issue at hand, it's a start. A start that might parlay itself into building towards next season. At this point, i'm open to a start, because standing pat is not an answer. Not being able to muster anything against the florida panthers is not acceptable. Scoring 8 goals over 6 games is not acceptable. Being in the 8th spot in a ****** conference with the level of talent our top players have is not acceptable.

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Old
03-26-2013, 02:40 PM
  #804
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Daniel Slater ‏@dslatertv

Drew Stafford to be healthy scratch for 2nd game in row for Sabres - scored 31 goals in 62 games in 2010-11, 50 or more pts past 2 seasons.
Have to think he's getting shipped out as soon as they can find a buyer.

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Old
03-26-2013, 02:48 PM
  #805
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Well pardon me if Im fed up to the point where Im beyond being placated by band-aid moves. Thats the type of way this organization has constructed a roster for the better part of 20 years now - 13 under Sather.

Change a coach here, change a couple of forwards there, sprinkle in a defensive man there, and present it as change. Usually its at the point where ANY change seems like a positive thing. That seems to be the state of mind you are in right about now.

I've seen this piss poor roster construction happen in much the same way for so long that I'm over getting excited about the prospects yet another makeover can potentially bring. GET IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME.

You mean to tell me a bottom 6 with Halpern, Boyle, Powe, and Pyatt weren't going to produce offensively? Holy ****!! Who could have foreseen this???!

Problem: Need offense
Solution: Bring over Zuccarello, apply band-aid on gunshot wound

Its so simple, predictable, and sad.

And, besides last year, its always stemmed from management putting together a roster of mismatched parts.
You're just complaining though with no solution. You can't just find long-term solutions for a bottom 6 over night. They ****ed up royally in letting Prust go.

While i don't disagree with your band-aid analogy, we can't stand pat right now. We still have a chance to make the playoffs. Our bottom 6 is a disaster. While a band-aid sucks you can't keep putting the same guys out there. The option is to go for Zucc, call up Kreider, whatever, change is needed.

And for what its worth. How many teams have a bottom six that doesn't constantly change?

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03-26-2013, 02:50 PM
  #806
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Have to think he's getting shipped out as soon as they can find a buyer.
Never was a fan of his. Model of inconsistency. If his contract wasn't for multiple seasons I'd take him, but he's got 2 years after this one.

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Old
03-26-2013, 03:03 PM
  #807
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Originally Posted by 16 To Stanley View Post
You're just complaining though with no solution. You can't just find long-term solutions for a bottom 6 over night. They ****ed up royally in letting Prust go.

While i don't disagree with your band-aid analogy, we can't stand pat right now. We still have a chance to make the playoffs. Our bottom 6 is a disaster. While a band-aid sucks you can't keep putting the same guys out there. The option is to go for Zucc, call up Kreider, whatever, change is needed.

And for what its worth. How many teams have a bottom six that doesn't constantly change?
My solution is to finally get a GM in place that pays attention to #1-20 on the active roster, and builds a team accordingly. It sure seems like Sather and company were too busy patting themselves on the back for acquiring Nash rather than approaching the gaping hole that had become the bottom 6 forwards with the same vigor.

Sure, thats not a quick fix right now. Then again, it hasnt been very important over the last 13 years either.

I agree with you that this team cant stay pat, and I dont mind tweaking the bottom 6 with more offensively-oriented players. I do mind that this franchise, after such a long time, still cant figure out what type of team it wants to be and what personnel will properly achieve that goal.

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Old
03-26-2013, 03:09 PM
  #808
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My solution is to finally get a GM in place that pays attention to #1-20 on the active roster, and builds a team accordingly. It sure seems like Sather and company were too busy patting themselves on the back for acquiring Nash rather than approaching the gaping hole that had become the bottom 6 forwards with the same vigor.

Sure, thats not a quick fix right now. Then again, it hasnt been very important over the last 13 years either.

I agree with you that this team cant stay pat, and I dont mind tweaking the bottom 6 with more offensively-oriented players. I do mind that this franchise, after such a long time, still cant figure out what type of team it wants to be and what personnel will properly achieve that goal.
Any fan who's been a fan for a long time wants Sather gone. Fact is, it's not going to happen, until he either gets too old, too sick, or dies. So I'm being realistic with what could happen instead of just complaining about something that we all know, won't.

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Old
03-26-2013, 03:11 PM
  #809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My solution is to finally get a GM in place that pays attention to #1-20 on the active roster, and builds a team accordingly. It sure seems like Sather and company were too busy patting themselves on the back for acquiring Nash rather than approaching the gaping hole that had become the bottom 6 forwards with the same vigor.

Sure, thats not a quick fix right now. Then again, it hasnt been very important over the last 13 years either.

I agree with you that this team cant stay pat, and I dont mind tweaking the bottom 6 with more offensively-oriented players. I do mind that this franchise, after such a long time, still cant figure out what type of team it wants to be and what personnel will properly achieve that goal.
I agree with you on the need to have seen this coming and addressed it earlier. That is inexcusable.
I don't think they foresaw the offense struggling so mightily. But with no training camp/preseason, they should have planned accordingly.
This season is not lost, getting into the playoffs and everything is possible. At a minimum the Kids get more playoff experience. Chemistry is built through going to war in playoff games, so it is not too late to tinker with the bottom 6.

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Old
03-26-2013, 03:12 PM
  #810
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Originally Posted by Zenith View Post
That's definitely the condition, I remember from when the trade went down. Don't remember who said it, though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
It was tweeted around the time of the trade by a beat writer
Sorry - do not have it
Does anyone have the source on the condition of the pick that went for Mashinter? I searched through the trade thread, nothing. Even Wikipedia doesn't have it. WIKIPEDIA.

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03-26-2013, 03:20 PM
  #811
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Does anyone have the source on the condition of the pick that went for Mashinter? I searched through the trade thread, nothing. Even Wikipedia doesn't have it. WIKIPEDIA.
This is what Rangerboy posted in the thread when we traded for him, not sure why you care so much.

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The Rangers conditional trades are usually based on signing the player. Cap Geek has Mashinster as a UFA. He would be a group 6. The player needs to be at least 25,played 3 or more pro seasons and has not played 80 NHL games. Mashinster doesn't turn 25 until September so he will be a group II. Looks like if the Rangers qualify him,they give up a 7th. If they don't,they don't lose the pick.

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03-26-2013, 03:23 PM
  #812
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This is what Rangerboy posted in the thread when we traded for him, not sure why you care so much.
How can you not care this much about a 2014 7th round pick?

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03-26-2013, 03:47 PM
  #814
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Originally Posted by kenjets36 View Post
Tom Brady was picked in the 7th round. Why do the Bruins get so lucky picking their starting pitchers.
I believe you are mixing up your references here. Tom Brady is the host of Let's Make a Deal.

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03-26-2013, 03:47 PM
  #815
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Question: Does Zucc have to be re-qualified after this season? Will he be UFA or RFA?

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03-26-2013, 03:51 PM
  #817
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Question: Does Zucc have to be re-qualified after this season? Will he be UFA or RFA?
He will be a RFA. QO of $735,000.

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03-26-2013, 03:58 PM
  #818
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
My solution is to finally get a GM in place that pays attention to #1-20 on the active roster, and builds a team accordingly. It sure seems like Sather and company were too busy patting themselves on the back for acquiring Nash rather than approaching the gaping hole that had become the bottom 6 forwards with the same vigor.

Sure, thats not a quick fix right now. Then again, it hasnt been very important over the last 13 years either.

I agree with you that this team cant stay pat, and I dont mind tweaking the bottom 6 with more offensively-oriented players. I do mind that this franchise, after such a long time, still cant figure out what type of team it wants to be and what personnel will properly achieve that goal.
The problems we're having are mainly attributed to the fact that we had to integrate 6 new faces with no camp or preseason, in a shortened season, with hopes of surpassing last year's achievements. Call it an excuse if you want, but it's a good one. That is a a lot of pressure, and this coach has his foot on the gas...

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03-26-2013, 03:58 PM
  #819
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He will be a RFA. QO of $735,000.
OK, so NYR wont have to re qualify him to retain his rights after this contract expires? Too bad

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03-26-2013, 04:02 PM
  #820
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OK, so NYR wont have to re qualify him to retain his rights after this contract expires? Too bad
No, that's exactly what it means.

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03-26-2013, 04:03 PM
  #821
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The problems we're having are mainly attributed to the fact that we had to integrate 6 new faces with no camp or preseason, in a shortened season, with hopes of surpassing last year's achievements. Call it an excuse if you want, but it's a good one. That is a a lot of pressure, and this coach has his foot on the gas...
I would flip that and say that the problems can be main attributed to Richards and Gaborik looking absolutely lost most nights.

The peripheral problems are that we have a bottom 6 that sees 2 of our top 3 offensive performers struggling and has zero ability to pick up any of that slack.

Richards and Gaborik playing like **** is causing all kinds of ripple effects down the lineup. And wouldnt you know it, those 2 had pretty good seasons in the same system last year.

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03-26-2013, 04:07 PM
  #822
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I would flip that and say that the problems can be main attributed to Richards and Gaborik looking absolutely lost most nights.

The peripheral problems are that we have a bottom 6 that sees 2 of our top 3 offensive performers struggling and has zero ability to pick up any of that slack.

Richards and Gaborik playing like **** is causing all kinds of ripple effects down the lineup. And wouldnt you know it, those 2 had pretty good seasons in the same system last year.
This part is the part that is so surprising, if not frustrating. It's guys who have been here that are struggling. We're used to new stars coming and flopping from the 98-04 era.

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03-26-2013, 04:40 PM
  #824
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I would flip that and say that the problems can be main attributed to Richards and Gaborik looking absolutely lost most nights.

The peripheral problems are that we have a bottom 6 that sees 2 of our top 3 offensive performers struggling and has zero ability to pick up any of that slack.

Richards and Gaborik playing like **** is causing all kinds of ripple effects down the lineup. And wouldnt you know it, those 2 had pretty good seasons in the same system last year.
Richards and Gaborik slumping are killing us right now. Don't forget though that the offense dried up last year coming down the stretch. Not too far from where we are now.
This is why we went after Nash. We didn't have to change as many faces as we did, but it being exasperated by the factors I mentioned before.

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03-26-2013, 05:04 PM
  #825
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Richards and Gaborik slumping are killing us right now. Don't forget though that the offense dried up last year coming down the stretch. Not too far from where we are now.
This is why we went after Nash. We didn't have to change as many faces as we did, but it being exasperated by the factors I mentioned before.
By the same token towards the stretch run last year Richards found his game. Let's hope he can do it again this year.

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