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Avs @ Stars | 3/23/13 | 6 MT | Possibilité de deux victoires d'affilée?!

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Old
03-23-2013, 09:49 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Thghtfulshadow View Post
Nice to see a little fire out of the boys... waaaay to late though
yeah , that was too little too late. you dont start something with 2 minutes left in the 3rd in a 5-2 game . They should have done that in the first or when we made it 4-2.

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03-23-2013, 09:50 PM
  #427
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How long does everyone think it would take Jones to develop to where he would need to be to make us a contender?
Firstly, we need a REAL coach. Not a guy that would see McGinn get a GIANT BUTTLOAD of chances to start the year with Paul Stastny (8 posts in 5 games played) and then NEVER AGAIN put those two guys together for the rest of the season (or up until now anyways).

Secondly, we would need more help than just adding Seth Jones. It's a good step, but we'd need to acquire a top 3 d-man as soon as possible. Not sure what is going to be available this summer as far as UFAs but that's a priority.

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03-23-2013, 09:51 PM
  #428
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If Avs lose tomorrow, Sacco may not make the rest of the year. This team has way to much quit/lack of desire anymore. 2 days off after tomorrow and its a home game. I can't take much more of this kind of unmotivated play.

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03-23-2013, 09:51 PM
  #429
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18 games left to suffer through... Jones/Drouin

We'd need a 13 - 2 - 3 record in 18 games to make the playoffs.

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03-23-2013, 09:53 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Firstly, we need a REAL coach. Not a guy that would see McGinn get a GIANT BUTTLOAD of chances to start the year with Paul Stastny (8 posts in 5 games played) and then NEVER AGAIN put those two guys together for the rest of the season (or up until now anyways).

Secondly, we would need more help than just adding Seth Jones. It's a good step, but we'd need to acquire a top 3 d-man as soon as possible. Not sure what is going to be available this summer as far as UFAs but that's a priority.
Our D's not far off from being good

??? - EJ
Hejda - Barrie
Wilson - SOB

With Siemens - Elliott in the A, ready to push Hejda and SOB/Wilson out of the lineup. All we need other than a real coach is a legit EJ partner that lets everyone else slot in where they belong, Hejda and Barrie on the second pairing, and Wilson - SOB as the physical third pairing who can skate and handle the puck. If Jones becomes that EJ partner and the two formed a legit top pairing, our D would be set.

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03-23-2013, 09:54 PM
  #431
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Well its good to see we're back to doing what we do best...losing. Not that I like us losing, but seems thats all we do on a consistent basis.

I don't even know what to say anymore, how many games can we play the exact same way. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

How many games can we play where we come out flatter than a slashed tire?

How many games do players like O'Bryne, Hunwick and Jones get to play before we say no more?

How many times can you dump a puck in and not get to it?

How long can we just sit still and grab our ankles? Something needs to change now, not in the offseason, but right now.

Watching the Avs this season is going to make me go crazy, they are so frustrating.

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03-23-2013, 09:58 PM
  #432
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On the bright side it looks like we have a legit chance at a top 3 pick. Obviously far from a lock but the next two games at Vancouver and the Flames will be telling. 2nd last right now. Sucks but honestly with the way the season started with injuries and the ROR situation it's probably for the best. Add another elite talent to go along with our great young core, get rid of Sacco, do something about the D core and start the season with a healthy roster and ROR from day 1.

Atleast the Nuggets are tearing it up

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03-23-2013, 09:58 PM
  #433
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Well its good to see we're back to doing what we do best...losing. Not that I like us losing, but seems thats all we do on a consistent basis.

I don't even know what to say anymore, how many games can we play the exact same way. Isn't the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result?

How many games can we play where we come out flatter than a slashed tire?

How many games do players like O'Bryne, Hunwick and Jones get to play before we say no more?

How many times can you dump a puck in and not get to it?

How long can we just sit still and grab our ankles? Something needs to change now, not in the offseason, but right now.

Watching the Avs this season is going to make me go crazy, they are so frustrating.
Anything they change at this point will only hurt our chances at a top 3 draft pick. Just saying...

This has probably been brought up, but does the list of defenders drafted #1 over all scare anyone else?

For fuq sake, this list of goalies and defenders drafted #1 over all is horrible.

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03-23-2013, 10:00 PM
  #434
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Originally Posted by Bender View Post
Firstly, we need a REAL coach. Not a guy that would see McGinn get a GIANT BUTTLOAD of chances to start the year with Paul Stastny (8 posts in 5 games played) and then NEVER AGAIN put those two guys together for the rest of the season (or up until now anyways).

Secondly, we would need more help than just adding Seth Jones. It's a good step, but we'd need to acquire a top 3 d-man as soon as possible. Not sure what is going to be available this summer as far as UFAs but that's a priority.
I'm a strong believer in Tyson Barrie and Stefan Elliot. I believe they will both make it when their time is right. In my mind, these two will be 3-5 Ds on the team (I'm thinking more 3-4) God knows we have enough 5-6s so all we really need is another top pairing Dman. And don't forget, we have Siemens down the pipeline, who can play legit minutes in a shutdown role.

I'm really not worried about this organization long term. Short term on the other hand,...

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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Anything they change at this point will only hurt our chances at a top 3 draft pick. Just saying...

This has probably been brought up, but does the list of defenders drafted #1 over all scare anyone else?
Was talking about this today, I really hope the draft goes as planned in the early stages of the year, and FLA picks Mackinnon first, and we get the second pick and chose Jones. For some reason, I think the pressure of being first overall is much greater on Dman/Goalies than on a forward... according to history anyways.

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03-23-2013, 10:02 PM
  #435
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Originally Posted by WornWithPride View Post
I'm a strong believer in Tyson Barrie and Stefan Elliot. I believe they will both make it when their time is right. In my mind, these two will be 3-5 Ds on the team (I'm thinking more 3-4) God knows we have enough 5-6s so all we really need is another top pairing Dman. And don't forget, we have Siemens down the pipeline, who can play legit minutes in a shutdown role.

I'm really not worried about this organization long term. Short term on the other hand,...
I see Siemens as the heir to Hejda's spot as the Stay at home Lefty next to Barrie/Elliott on the second pairing. Meaning we still need to find an EJ partner.

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03-23-2013, 10:05 PM
  #436
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I'm a strong believer in Tyson Barrie and Stefan Elliot. I believe they will both make it when their time is right. In my mind, these two will be 3-5 Ds on the team (I'm thinking more 3-4) God knows we have enough 5-6s so all we really need is another top pairing Dman. And don't forget, we have Siemens down the pipeline, who can play legit minutes in a shutdown role.

I'm really not worried about this organization long term. Short term on the other hand,...



Was talking about this today, I really hope the draft goes as planned in the early stages of the year, and FLA picks Mackinnon first, and we get the second pick and chose Jones. For some reason, I think the pressure of being first overall is much greater on Dman/Goalies than on a forward... according to history anyways.
Pressure is one thing... but if you look at the forwards taken #1 over all. It looks like 80% of them are stars and may even be hall of fame caliber.

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03-23-2013, 10:05 PM
  #437
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Anything they change at this point will only hurt our chances at a top 3 draft pick. Just saying...

This has probably been brought up, but does the list of defenders drafted #1 over all scare anyone else?
Me! I'd prefer to take a Drouin or MacKinnon.
I still think finding a way to add multiple very good pieces to the core is one way to manage that asset. I get that passing on prospective great talent is a huge risk, but If I was the FO, I'd definitely field some offers and be very clear I was willing to move it for a great package, all the way up til draft day.

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03-23-2013, 10:07 PM
  #438
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Anything they change at this point will only hurt our chances at a top 3 draft pick. Just saying...

This has probably been brought up, but does the list of defenders drafted #1 over all scare anyone else?

For fuq sake, this list of goalies and defenders drafted #1 over all is horrible.
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Originally Posted by CobraAcesS View Post
Pressure is one thing... but if you look at the forwards taken #1 over all. It looks like 80% of them are stars and may even be hall of fame caliber.
TBH, Anyone between Jones, Drouin and Mackinnon and I'm happy. That said, I'm not into the Drouin Hype machine, but that's another discussion.

One thing is clear, at season's end, Joe Sacco needs to be gone.

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03-23-2013, 10:08 PM
  #439
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Jaroslav Halak averages 17 shots against the 11 games he has been in the net for the Blues this season. Quite the diffrence from the job Varly and Giggy has here.
And now the Blues have allowed 5 shots against the Oilers, 30 minutes into the game.

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03-23-2013, 10:09 PM
  #440
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Firstly, we need a REAL coach. Not a guy that would see McGinn get a GIANT BUTTLOAD of chances to start the year with Paul Stastny (8 posts in 5 games played) and then NEVER AGAIN put those two guys together for the rest of the season (or up until now anyways).
I think him and Stastny work well because of Stastny's creativity, when they start to click they freed up space for Jones. I think that's the one thing everybody overlooks Jones needs space he cannot be the focus at all. When the D looks at everyone but him he makes things happen, he has that time to get the twisted wrister off.

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03-23-2013, 10:09 PM
  #441
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I don't think we will land the first overall pick anyway.

Varly will steal a few games still, he has the ability too. And the talent of Duchene, O'Reilly, Landeskog, Parenteau... I don't know. But I dont think we are a 30th overall team.

We could still win the lottery though.

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03-23-2013, 10:10 PM
  #442
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Me! I'd prefer to take a Drouin or MacKinnon.
I still think finding a way to add multiple very good pieces to the core is one way to manage that asset. I get that passing on prospective great talent is a huge risk, but If I was the FO, I'd definitely field some offers and be very clear I was willing to move it for a great package, all the way up til draft day.
I'd rather Drouin or Mac too. They have some high upside. Drouin is more risky but I think both are safe bets to be 50+ point forwards at the least. Jones could end up being forced with the Avalanche because of are glaring need for defense and I'd be afraid of him turning into a solid shutdown D man or a 2nd pairing guy or something. Jones would get thrown into this awful fire from day 1 and we'd ruin him

Unlikely we get the number 1 overall where Jones likely goes anyways.

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03-23-2013, 10:29 PM
  #443
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Anything they change at this point will only hurt our chances at a top 3 draft pick. Just saying...

This has probably been brought up, but does the list of defenders drafted #1 over all scare anyone else?

For fuq sake, this list of goalies and defenders drafted #1 over all is horrible.
I don't care about draft picks. I think teams who play hard will get what they deserve. If you play hard and just lose you will be rewarded with a draft pick. Its bad Karma to just go out there and tank just like we've been doing for 2 weeks.

I'm also with you, very weary of drafting Seth Jones #1 overall, I'd feel much better with either MacKinnon or Drouin at #1. For some reason its way tougher to get a read on top end dmen than top end forwards in the draft.

The last thing they need to do is draft Jones because of need and have him turn into a middle pairing guy and have Mackinnon or Drouin turn into top end forwards.

Take the best possible player and make it work. Meaning take the center and then figure out who stays and who you use as possible trade bait.

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03-23-2013, 10:40 PM
  #444
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Me! I'd prefer to take a Drouin or MacKinnon.
I still think finding a way to add multiple very good pieces to the core is one way to manage that asset. I get that passing on prospective great talent is a huge risk, but If I was the FO, I'd definitely field some offers and be very clear I was willing to move it for a great package, all the way up til draft day.
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Just because I don't remember this being brought up, sorry if it has.

This is a list of Defenders drafted in the top 5 going quite a ways back.

Ok so Defense #1 over all...

2006 - EJ
1996 - Phillips
1995 - Berard (Never heard of him...)
1994 - Jovanovski
1992 - Hamelik
1982 - Kluzak
1979 - Ramage
1976 - R. Green
1974 - Joly
1973 - Potvin
1967 - Pagnutti
1966 - Gibbs

2nd over all isn't much better, but it does have Pronger

2012 - Murray
2009 - Hedman
2008 - Doughty
1996 - Zyuzin???
1995 - Redden
1994 - Tverdivski
1993 - Pronger
1980 - Babych

3rd over all still isn't much better

2010 - Gudbranson
2008 - Bogosian
2005 - J. Johnson
2004 - Barker
2002 - Bouwmeester
1998 - Stuart
1995 - Aki-Petteri Berg
1992 - Mike Rathje
1991 - Scott Niedermayer
1988 - Curtis Leschyshyn
1987 - Glen Wesley
1985 - Craig Wolanin

4th over all?

2012 - Griffin Reinhart
2011 - Adam Larsson
2008 - Alex Pietrangelo
2007 - Thomas Hickey
2002 - Joni Pitkanen
2000 - Rostislav Klesla
1998 - Bryan Allen
1991 - Scott Lachance
1987 - Wayne McBean
1986 - Zarley Zalapski
1984 - Al Iafrate
1980 - Larry Murphy

5th Over all?

2012 - Morgan Rielly
2008 - Luke Schenn
2007 - Karl Alzner
2002 - Ryan Whitney
1998 - Vitali Vishnevsky
1997 - Eric Brewer
1996 - Richard Jackman
1992 - Darius Kasparaitis
1991 - Aaron Ward
1987 - Chris Joseph
1986 - Shawn Anderson
1985 - Dana Murzyn
1984 - Petr Svoboda
1981 - Joe Cirella
1980 - Darren Veitch

Some of these guys are still seriously unproven, but historically it seems to be a crap shoot as to if your actually getting a star caliber defender or not.

There seems to be more 'busts' the closer they get to #1 over all. I've been a NHL fan since around 1995, so I am not super well versed on some of the older names. But I'm not totally clueless either, some of these older guys I remember being talked about as good players.


I'm going to move this over to the draft thread though, maybe this is wrong but I'll take Drouin even at #2 over Jones after looking at this list.

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03-23-2013, 10:43 PM
  #445
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Dmen are more risky because they need more development and take longer until they're ready to excel in the NHL. It's the same reason prospect rankings are more accurate around the time of the draft than they are two years earlier, the players are closer to the finished product, so there's less time for something to go wrong.

That said it wouldn't keep me from drafting Jones first overall, hell we've got one first overall top pairing dman already and I'd love to have another EJ, not to mention the possibility that Jones doesn't throw off his whole development by losing over a year, the way EJ did with that golf cart incident.

Drouin and MacKinnon look awesome to, so I wouldn't be upset with either one of them either, but god damn does Seth Jones look special, and with the connections and the massive need for a top pairing guy, I think the fit for this team is too perfect, kinda like Lando was. I acknowledge RNH was a better prospect, but Lando was perfect for us so getting the second pick was a dream come true for me. I'll feel the same way if Florida snags a forward first overall and we can get Jones 2nd like we did Gabe.

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03-23-2013, 10:44 PM
  #446
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HNIC said that Giguere ripped the team after the game.

Rightfully so. Varlamov gave up his two brutal goals per game and is now stastistically one of the worst tenders in the league. Our D sucked. Like usual and our forwards were invisible.

Maybe it isn't on the coach?

Sacco cant do much when Varlamov gives up 4 goals on 15 shots.

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03-23-2013, 10:47 PM
  #447
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HNIC said that Giguere ripped the team after the game.

Rightfully so. Varlamov gave up his two brutal goals per game and is now stastistically one of the worst tenders in the league. Our D sucked. Like usual and our forwards were invisible.

Maybe it isn't on the coach?

Sacco cant do much when Varlamov gives up 4 goals on 15 shots.
Varly's confidence has hit rock bottom it looks like, for most of the season almost every single goal scored on him you could hardly blame him for.

He still makes some huge saves, and he was one of the main reasons we had ha prayer in that last Dallas game.

Varly can't do much when the coach is inept, and gives our worst defenders the most ice time in the most critical moments either. Beyond how horrible our overall defense group is.

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03-23-2013, 10:51 PM
  #448
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It's just easier to scout raw talent among forwards. Defenseman is a diffrent story, always a bit of a gamble.

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03-23-2013, 10:51 PM
  #449
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HNIC said that Giguere ripped the team after the game.

Rightfully so. Varlamov gave up his two brutal goals per game and is now stastistically one of the worst tenders in the league. Our D sucked. Like usual and our forwards were invisible.

Maybe it isn't on the coach?

Sacco cant do much when Varlamov gives up 4 goals on 15 shots.
Varly can't do much when nobody is playing defense.

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03-23-2013, 10:53 PM
  #450
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I'm going to move this over to the draft thread though, maybe this is wrong but I'll take Drouin even at #2 over Jones after looking at this list.
You... do realize that the player and the number are not dependent on each other right?

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