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Old
01-09-2011, 03:42 PM
  #1
hfboardsuser
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ATD Wiki

I don't know if anyone is interested in this, but what does everyone think about potentially using a custom Wiki to manage player profiles, teams and perhaps even the draft, rather than just editing posts? When old posts get locked, we end up having to re-post things into new threads and it can be cumbersome to find past profiles or picks.

Here's an example of how this could work:

ATD Wiki- Home Page

ATD Wiki- Team Roster sample

ATD Wiki- Player Profile sample

ATD Wiki- Season Summary sample


Last edited by hfboardsuser: 01-09-2011 at 10:46 PM.
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01-09-2011, 03:43 PM
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jarek
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This is an EXCELLENT idea for managing player bios. EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT idea, because EVERYONE can then contribute little things to player bios whenever they find new info. Mr Bugg, you are the man. We don't necessarily need it for the draft itself, but this could become critical in the future for preserving player bios. Thinking about it, I can't believe this was never suggested before.

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01-09-2011, 03:53 PM
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Velociraptor
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Great idea Bugg. This should definitely happen

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01-09-2011, 03:54 PM
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seventieslord
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I think we should do this (this is kind of a vision VI and I have had for a while) but why not do it here, where this hockey history study group resides? The only downside to keeping it here is that it's not open for everyone to edit, but we could have a "quote dump" thread and then the person in charge of the bios takes those quotes that people dump and place them in the appropriate bios.

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01-09-2011, 06:43 PM
  #5
jarek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seventieslord View Post
I think we should do this (this is kind of a vision VI and I have had for a while) but why not do it here, where this hockey history study group resides? The only downside to keeping it here is that it's not open for everyone to edit, but we could have a "quote dump" thread and then the person in charge of the bios takes those quotes that people dump and place them in the appropriate bios.
There is absolutely no reason to do it here. The downside you mentioned is a HUGE downside. The ability to edit a wiki on the fly is one of the main reasons that is is such an incredible tool.

Bugg, do you have any idea how to get one started? I'll help any way I can.

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01-09-2011, 07:07 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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I am definitely against moving the draft itself off of hfboards - we do that and it becomes incredibly inaccessible for new people, even farther removed from the History of Hockey board, and very much an "insider's club." It also makes it much easier to forget about and not really follow if you aren't involved in that particular draft.

However, I absolutely see the value of using the wiki for bios and perhaps roster threads. I love the idea of doing up bios in wikis and then linking them here.

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01-09-2011, 07:18 PM
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jarek
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As I understand it, the hard work comes in setting up the wiki itself to accept bio information. Everything after that is easy peasy.

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01-09-2011, 07:20 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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As I understand it, the hard work comes in setting up the wiki itself to accept bio information. Everything after that is easy peasy.
Ah, so I'll give the old "if someone else wants to do the hard work and set up the wikis, I'll be happy to use them for my bios."

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01-09-2011, 07:21 PM
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jarek
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I really don't know how it works. By "hard work", I mean "time setting up".. it's not really all that hard to do, just time consuming. After that, as long as everyone contributes little by little, we should have an excellent database up and running in no time, and then there will never be an excuse regarding bios ever again. I really don't know why we never considered this idea in the past.

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01-09-2011, 07:28 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Would there be a wiki war between EB and 70s on whether to include things like "7th in playoff PIMs among defensemen in 1929?"

Seriously though, I could see there being issues when a GM spends a ton of time on a bio and then has information edited out by another GM as unnecessary.

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01-09-2011, 07:53 PM
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seventieslord
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Ah, so I'll give the old "if someone else wants to do the hard work and set up the wikis, I'll be happy to use them for my bios."
Same. But I would not stop doing it here too.

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01-09-2011, 07:53 PM
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seventieslord
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Would there be a wiki war between EB and 70s on whether to include things like "7th in playoff PIMs among defensemen in 1929?"
.
If EB's game, I am!

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01-09-2011, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Would there be a wiki war between EB and 70s on whether to include things like "7th in playoff PIMs among defensemen in 1929?"

Seriously though, I could see there being issues when a GM spends a ton of time on a bio and then has information edited out by another GM as unnecessary.
Maybe have a section at the top with the highlights, and everything else goes in a section below? Basically a readable short version and a complete long version. That way nothing ever has to be deleted, just moved into the long version. Most people would probably just read the short version, but the long version is there if you want it, with all the quotes that people have dug up and statistical analyses that people have run.

There would have to be some kind of consensus on what to put in the short versions, and I'm sure there would be disagreements there. But it could help the bios keep the balance between being readable and complete.

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01-09-2011, 08:13 PM
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Brilliant Idea! can't wait for the ATD

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01-09-2011, 10:23 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Maybe have a section at the top with the highlights, and everything else goes in a section below? Basically a readable short version and a complete long version. That way nothing ever has to be deleted, just moved into the long version. Most people would probably just read the short version, but the long version is there if you want it, with all the quotes that people have dug up and statistical analyses that people have run.

There would have to be some kind of consensus on what to put in the short versions, and I'm sure there would be disagreements there. But it could help the bios keep the balance between being readable and complete.
I like the idea of having a short version on top and long version below with details that never get deleted.

Though I'd let the GM currently selecting the player to have complete discretion over what goes in the summary on top.

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01-09-2011, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jareklajkosz View Post
As I understand it, the hard work comes in setting up the wiki itself to accept bio information. Everything after that is easy peasy.
It's actually ready to go as it is. The Wiki is private right now, so after registering and being approved, anyone can start going at it. However, I think for the first time, it would make sense to just create the bios as players are drafted, updating in subsequent years. Yes, that's how we've been doing it here for the longest time, but there are 1000 of them and I would say most will never stop changing. New discoveries are made every time we do this and it would make sense to start from scratch.

The process itself is simple; just click "New Page", title it "Player- XXXX XXXXXX", and use the simple editor to format the text. Anyone who can handle the bold and underline buttons here can handle making a Wiki. Once you have a roster page (created the same way as above), linking to it is as easy as highlighting the player name, clicking the hyperlink button (again, looks exactly like the one here) and selecting the pre-exisiting Wiki page.

Some things to consider:

-Editing policy for bios. It's a valid concern that another ATDer might edit out some good information in the place of their own profile, but the "short/long" concept makes sense. At any rate, the edit logs will make it easy to see who made what change, and if someone has a really big problem, all you need to do is message the GM here and ask them why they did it and if they'd be willing to compromise with you.

-Further to the above, Wikispaces allows for the setting of custom permissions. ie, only seventies and the admins could edit seventies' roster page. However, that's a feature only available if you upgrade to a premium package. They start at $20 a month. As it is, pages can be locked so that only admins can change them; that should be enough for now, and only a handful would be (yearly histories, that kind of thing). Otherwise, we're all adults (except you VCL )

-Drafting off-site. We don't have to do that; just an idea I had. I think a Wiki is valuable not only for bios, though, but for rosters and ATD history season-by-season. I'll put up a link to an example.

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Old
01-09-2011, 11:11 PM
  #17
Leaf Lander
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I don't see why we can't have a mirror site for the draft

someday we may come to hfboards and find it was sold and is now called
leaflandersplace

I made my wiki profile but I have no idea how to use that website yet...

http://leaflander.wikispaces.com/

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01-10-2011, 06:26 AM
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EagleBelfour
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Would there be a wiki war between EB and 70s on whether to include things like "7th in playoff PIMs among defensemen in 1929?"
Haha! I already admitted half my wrong with that! I'm not sure I'll take them out, but I'll think of something!

As for the idea itself, it's definitely brilliant, although I won't be able to help for the first 2-3 months as I'm away for my home. The only ''tip'' I could give is that, as wikipedia, we should use the same ''frame'' for every bio. Take the time establish a frame everyone will be satisfy will help the site growth over time.

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01-10-2011, 04:01 PM
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Haha! I already admitted half my wrong with that! I'm not sure I'll take them out, but I'll think of something!

As for the idea itself, it's definitely brilliant, although I won't be able to help for the first 2-3 months as I'm away for my home. The only ''tip'' I could give is that, as wikipedia, we should use the same ''frame'' for every bio. Take the time establish a frame everyone will be satisfy will help the site growth over time.
I got around the "It's only 1-2 points" (reasonable) thing by just taking numbers for those guys over a longer period of time. I think that accurately portrays the information you don't want to exclude while making it much less insignificant.

I really like the wiki idea- seems perfect. I'll have to explore getting my bios there once things kick off.

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01-10-2011, 04:04 PM
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EagleBelfour
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I got around the "It's only 1-2 points" (reasonable) thing by just taking numbers for those guys over a longer period of time. I think that accurately portrays the information you don't want to exclude while making it much less insignificant
I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

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01-10-2011, 04:21 PM
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seventieslord
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
he's saying, instead of saying 1-2 points in some season was 8th or 9th-most, look at a large block of seasons (like perhaps the player's career) and then you're dealing with a bigger sample size of perhaps 12-15 points, and then put those into context.

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01-10-2011, 04:25 PM
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EagleBelfour
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he's saying, instead of saying 1-2 points in some season was 8th or 9th-most, look at a large block of seasons (like perhaps the player's career) and then you're dealing with a bigger sample size of perhaps 12-15 points, and then put those into context.
I understand.

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04-10-2013, 12:02 AM
  #23
Elever
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I was wondering if you fellas have any idea to carry forward with this.

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04-10-2013, 12:13 AM
  #24
TheDevilMadeMe
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If I get bored, I might start editing regular wikipedia with information from the ATD. The HOH Top goalies project inspired me to get a wikipedia account to re-write the previously factually incorrect article on the history of the Vezina Trophy.

If someone wants to set up a special wiki just for the ATD and it takes off, I'll use it.

By I honestly think our time might be better spent in improving articles on the main wikipedia.

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04-10-2013, 01:50 AM
  #25
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By I honestly think our time might be better spent in improving articles on the main wikipedia.
You know, I'd never thought to do that, but it's a good idea.

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