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#32 Sabres at Canadiens Sat Mar 23 7:00PM ET TV: MSG-B Radio: WGR-AM

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Old
03-23-2013, 03:23 PM
  #76
Dubi Doo
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
The teams been great this year without Roy.
Dallas hasn't improved at all with Roy. Their fans have the same complaints about Roy that we did, and a majority want him gone at the deadline. He also has a whopping 3 goals this year. Let's all admit his value has been steadily depreciating since his injury. As has his impact on the ice.

He would help right now, but would they resign him? Doubtful. Im glad they got Ott. Once this team gets Tropp healthy and Girgs is ready to make the jump...this team will be solid on the forecheck.

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Old
03-23-2013, 03:32 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
Dallas hasn't improved at all with Roy. Their fans have the same complaints about Roy that we did, and a majority want him gone at the deadline. He also has a whopping 3 goals this year. Let's all admit his value has been steadily depreciating since his injury. As has his impact on the ice.

He would help right now, but would they resign him? Doubtful. Im glad they got Ott. Once this team gets Tropp healthy and Girgs is ready to make the jump...this team will be solid on the forecheck.
Dallas is 13-9-3 with Roy in the lineup and 1-4-0 without him, so he pretty clearly makes them better. Without him, Dallas has Benn but has to force feed Eakin 2C minutes. Gee, giving a guy minutes he shouldn't be handling in the absence of Roy, where have I seen that before?

Also, we must be reading different Stars fans. What I gather is most want to re-sign him but don't want to break the bank to do so, and they're willing to move him if they can't get him re-signed.

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Old
03-23-2013, 03:48 PM
  #78
Daz28
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Bye Darcy? ... When did Darcy become in charge of scratching players?
Darcy is in charge of the ENTIRE hockey club. If he says the whole team has to eat a banana, then Rolston tells them all to eat a banana. Even bosses have bosses until your the head honcho. Anyways, if a GM is trying to build trade value, then he informs his coach. I guess from this scratching we can assume Stafford is staying with Lindy(ain't goin nowhere joke).

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Dallas is 13-9-3 with Roy in the lineup and 1-4-0 without him, so he pretty clearly makes them better.
Haha, if you say so. The guy has 3 goals in 25 games in a CONTRACT year. He's trash. Maybe Burkie will give him $4M over 3 years, then send him to the A after he realizes his mistake.

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Old
03-23-2013, 03:50 PM
  #79
Dubi Doo
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Dallas is 13-9-3 with Roy in the lineup and 1-4-0 without him, so he pretty clearly makes them better. Without him, Dallas has Benn but has to force feed Eakin 2C minutes. Gee, giving a guy minutes he shouldn't be handling in the absence of Roy, where have I seen that before?

Also, we must be reading different Stars fans. What I gather is most want to re-sign him but don't want to break the bank to do so, and they're willing to move him if they can't get him re-signed.
Fair points. I didn't dig deep enough to find those stats.

As for your second point, i just read the Roy contract thread, and your statement is accurate. Most seem to be on the fence with him and wouldn't mind seeing him go, but theyre not sure how to replace him.

Doesn't change my point of view, though. His production has decreased since his injury. His goal scoring especially. He seems slower. The Sabres could use him now, but a change was needed, and i think the benefits of this trade will be felt in the future.


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Old
03-23-2013, 04:29 PM
  #80
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Haha, if you say so. The guy has 3 goals in 25 games in a CONTRACT year. He's trash. Maybe Burkie will give him $4M over 3 years, then send him to the A after he realizes his mistake.
I don't say so, their record does. He's properly slotted as a 2C there and the Stars are a better team with him than without him. It's an objective fact, even if it flies in the face of the accepted gospel that me makes everything worse.

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03-23-2013, 04:36 PM
  #81
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I don't say so, their record does. He's properly slotted as a 2C there and the Stars are a better team with him than without him. It's an objective fact, even if it flies in the face of the accepted gospel that me makes everything worse.
Hows that go again, correlation does not imply causation? I took statistics in school, and if you didn't, you could certainly Google it. Anyways, give me a handful of examples of "good" teams who have 10 goal 2nd line centers. If you're trying to say their depth is so completely gawd awful that they have to plug this plug in to get any success at all, I'll buy it, but I simply won't buy the IMPLIED premise "he makes them BETTER".

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03-23-2013, 04:38 PM
  #82
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We sucked last year and this year because the Sabres have been a woefully coached team. Rolston goes about business quietly. Kaleta gets an extra game for stupid hit, enough said. Stafford down for a game. He's playing Enroth his gams, not getting into hunches on other crap. It's all methodical and Ruff's lame coaching is taking time to be undone, I think Rolston just works at it a piece at a time. Unfortunately in a short season, he ain't going to solve this puzzle in time,

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03-23-2013, 05:39 PM
  #83
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http://www.buffalonews.com/apps/pbcs...130329590/1104

Dont recall ever being this pissd off after reading a Sabres article. Is Pomms fkn for real??? Never his fault, always someone else's....Me Me Me. Embarrassment of a Captain. Officially replaces Staff as the 1st one I want to see off this team.

"“It’s bugging you when you lose,” he said Friday. “Losing sucks a lot of energy out of you. You’re trying to figure out what to do, but at the same time I don’t think my play had varied at all. I think I was still doing things that led to me to get points."

"“I wasn’t scoring when I had chances. Guys weren’t scoring when I made plays."

- Come down off your high horse Pomm. Cody can say this multiple times a game too.

"“A lot of times I’m the furthest guy from the net on the power play,” he said. “It’s tough when you see other guys score from within 5 feet and you’re all the way back, but if that’s an area I can help the team, I’m fine with scoring less and being up top and doing whatever I can to help out.”

"“At times it’s been a little bit frustrating where you’re all the way back on the blue line and if things aren’t going your way you can’t get that rebound and you can’t get anything around the net, no action. But again, whatever I can do to help, that’s where I am, and I’ve got to figure it out.”

- Can someone post the audio of this full on man cry. WTF, its all woe is me. I cant score from there and have to watch as everyone scores from my old spot??? Its one thing to think it, its another to actually say it out loud. This is our Captain?? Fock me.

And that folks is how the "Old Core" thinks. Staff was just crying about being last on the depth charts when RR took over. Old core is nothing but a bunch of stat chasing, me me me, whiny prima donnas.

Pomms can GTFO!!
He's shameful

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03-23-2013, 05:41 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Daz28 View Post
Hows that go again, correlation does not imply causation? I took statistics in school, and if you didn't, you could certainly Google it. Anyways, give me a handful of examples of "good" teams who have 10 goal 2nd line centers.
You're premising your entire argument on Roy's goal totals. He's still on pace for over 50 pts in an 82 games season, and I'd be happy to show you a bunch of teams who have two-way, 50 point second-line centers. Anyways, I know it's probably beyond your grasp of the game of hockey, but there's more to the game than just back-of-the-hockey-card statistics. For instance, I have little doubt you're entirely unaware of the fact that Roy starts a great majority of his shifts in his defensive zone (43.8% o-zone starts), or that he's easily one of their better 5-on-5 players (both in terms of offensive production and goal prevention), or that his team drives the possession when he's on the ice, notwithstanding the fact that a majority of those shifts start in the defensive zone.

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Originally Posted by Daz28 View Post
If you're trying to say their depth is so completely gawd awful that they have to plug this plug in to get any success at all, I'll buy it, but I simply won't buy the IMPLIED premise "he makes them BETTER".
So in the same sentence you call Roy a "plug," you say you're willing to be convinced that he contributes to their success. Yeah, okay. You're not willing to be convinced of anything that has to do with Roy being a good hockey player or helping his team. Anyways, I've told you how they're better with him than without him--both in terms of their on-ice record, and how he contributes to that (strong 5-on-5 play)--but I'm sure you'll attempt to pick a nit in something I said and assert that supports your point that he's "just a plug."

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Old
03-23-2013, 05:44 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
I don't say so, their record does. He's properly slotted as a 2C there and the Stars are a better team with him than without him. It's an objective fact, even if it flies in the face of the accepted gospel that me makes everything worse.
The Sabres had a better record without Roy

Do... I guess objectively... Oh wait, do the "properly slotted" part

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03-23-2013, 05:52 PM
  #86
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You're premising your entire argument on Roy's goal totals. He's still on pace for over 50 pts in an 82 games season, and I'd be happy to show you a bunch of teams who have two-way, 50 point second-line centers. Anyways, I know it's probably beyond your grasp of the game of hockey, but there's more to the game than just back-of-the-hockey-card statistics. For instance, I have little doubt you're entirely unaware of the fact that Roy starts a great majority of his shifts in his defensive zone (43.8% o-zone starts), or that he's easily one of their better 5-on-5 players (both in terms of offensive production and goal prevention).



So in the same sentence you call Roy a "plug," you say you're willing to be convinced that he contributes to their success. Yeah, okay. You're not willing to be convinced anything about Roy. Anyways, I've told you how they're better with him than without him--both in terms of their on-ice record, and how he contributes to that (strong 5-on-5 play)--but I'm sure you'll attempt to pick a nit in something I said and assert that supports your point that he's "just a plug."
Do ya know why he starts more in his end than their end, I do, 9.84 GOALS/82 games. THAT'S WHY. How dare I even grab a stat like GOALS off the back of a hockey card for a 2nd line center. Shame on me, huh?

Any guy who can't score 10 goals a season getting 2nd line minutes with quality players is a plug. Sorry if you don't believe that. In fact, let me help you here, would you be perfectly happy if we re-signed Roy to a 5 year deal, put him on the second line, and he got 10 goals and 40 assists each year playing with 2 good wingers?? Would ya??? Reallyyyy????? NO team would be successful with a roughly 50 goal 2nd line. Fantasy world right there.

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The Sabres had a better record without Roy

Do... I guess objectively... Oh wait, do the "properly slotted" part
Worst part is he was all of a 17 goal scorer then.

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03-23-2013, 05:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
The Sabres had a better record without Roy

Do... I guess objectively... Oh wait, do the "properly slotted" part
Yep, they did. A lot of people who Roy did not play with in the first 35 games of that season (Vanek, Poms) stepped up, and Ruff smartened up in a couple of areas including nailing Lalime to the bench and allowing Enroth to play, and ending the Craig Rivet experience.

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Old
03-23-2013, 06:00 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Zip15 View Post
Yep, they did. A lot of people who Roy did not play with in the first 35 games of that season (Vanek, Poms) stepped up, and Ruff smartened up in a couple of areas including nailing Lalime to the bench and allowing Enroth to play, and ending the Craig Rivet experience.
So when the correlation doesn't fit your narrative, look for other causation? Nice swim move.

Funny how such detail is not part of your current Dallas argument. That record in Dallas is clearly the product of Derek Roy and Derek Roy alone.

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03-23-2013, 06:06 PM
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Do ya know why he starts more in his end than their end, I do, 9.84 GOALS/82 games. THAT'S WHY. How dare I even grab a stat like GOALS off the back of a hockey card for a 2nd line center. Shame on me, huh?

Any guy who can't score 10 goals a season getting 2nd line minutes with quality players is a plug.
Roy has 3 goals in 25 games. Vanek has 3 in his last 18. I guess Vanek's getting perilously close to being a "plug," according to your definition.

Milan Lucic has 4 goals in 28 games. Plug.

Brad Richards has 4 goals in 28 games. Plug.

David Backes has 3 goals in 29 games. PLUG!

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would you be perfectly happy if we re-signed Roy to a 5 year deal, put him on the second line, and he got 10 goals and 40 assists each year playing with 2 good wingers??
If he could start almost 60% of his zone starts in the defensive end, still handily outscore his opponents at 5-on-5, still drive the possession despite all the d-zone starts, and free up our offensive centers (Hodgson, Grigs, Ennis) to play soft offensive minutes, **** yes I'd be happy.

But your entire premise is points. You've not once even acknowledged goal prevention. You only see the offensive side of the game.


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Would ya??? Reallyyyy?????
Yeah, I would. There's a many teams who'd be thrilled with that type of player.

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Worst part is he was all of a 17 goal scorer then.
...and 82 pts.

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Old
03-23-2013, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post
So when the correlation doesn't fit your narrative, look for other causation? Nice swim move.

Funny how such detail is not part of your current Dallas argument. That record in Dallas is clearly the product of Derek Roy and Derek Roy alone.
Roy's been good at 5-on-5 this year, and he's helped them. I think Stars fans would tell you that.

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Old
03-23-2013, 06:07 PM
  #91
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The march to the Stanley Cup begins tonight!!!!!!

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03-23-2013, 06:08 PM
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To tank, or not to tank?

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03-23-2013, 06:10 PM
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The march to the Stanley Cup begins tonight!!!!!!
I have a feeling Myers, Cody and Ott will be on fire tonight.

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03-23-2013, 06:11 PM
  #94
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Ugh I hate these long ceremonies and crap before the games takes forever lets go #dropthepuckalready

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03-23-2013, 06:12 PM
  #95
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To tank, or not to tank?
No tank.

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03-23-2013, 06:12 PM
  #96
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Yeah, I would. There's a many teams who'd be thrilled with that type of player.



...and 82 pts.
If we got Roy back on the 2nd line, he scored 10 goals, 40 assists, and was his usual dangle until I give it away guy for the next 5 years, I wouldn't even come near this site. It would be nuked to orbit.

He had 44 points, not 82, and that's why he's a plug, and Vanek and the others you listed aren't, is because they didn't stink all of last season as well. I'm going with the 100 game sample while the man is in HIS PRIME.

Yup, that's right, 20 goals, and 60 points in 105 games for a guy just entering his prime. Did I mention he gives the puck away like halloween candy, and he's hurt constantly???

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03-23-2013, 06:15 PM
  #97
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No tank.
But we suck

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03-23-2013, 06:15 PM
  #98
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If we got Roy back on the 2nd line, he scored 10 goals, 40 assists, and was his usual dangle until I give it away guy for the next 5 years, I wouldn't even come near this site. It would be nuked to orbit.

He had 44 points, not 82, and that's why he's a plug, and Vanek and the others you listed aren't, is because they didn't stink all of last season as well. I'm going with the 100 game sample while the man is in HIS PRIME.
The squirming to make distinctions begins.

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Yup, that's right, 20 goals, and 60 points in 105 games for a guy just entering his prime. Did I mention he gives the puck away like halloween candy, and he's hurt constantly???
Forwards' prime scoring years are 23-26. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

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03-23-2013, 06:16 PM
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I know the Canadian and American national anthems better than the Swedish.

Oh come on, i even know the french version of Canada's national anthem better than my own...

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03-23-2013, 06:17 PM
  #100
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I know the Canadian and American national anthems better than the Swedish.
I like the American one a lot, so patriotic.

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