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Nabokov is so overrated...

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Old
03-23-2013, 10:13 PM
  #51
duster19
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Originally Posted by Snapshotgoal View Post
OMG, that is unbelievable. ESPN is ridiculous.

I agree with everything you said but disagree with Carkner worse than Jurcina. Jurcina was horrible. I can deal with Finley in the line-up though. But lets be realistic we need a MAJOR overhaul for our D next season.
Jurcina was embarassing. Carkner is not a bad deep guy. He can play a little. Really tough. Hes been hurt all year. Give him some time. The guys will like him. He will make Martin, Hamonic, etc tougher

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03-23-2013, 11:02 PM
  #52
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In my eyes Hamonic is having a off year and was much better last year. McDonald has been sub par this year also. Jurcina,Staios,and Eaton at least had NHL experience where as Finley,Strait, and Hickey had a combined 40 NHL games under their belts. Jurcina was better then Carkner IMHO. Streit has played the same and Visnovski who was added is a great offensive Dman but really not so good on the D side of the game. Explain to me how last year was worse though?

P.S. I hate ESPN. I looked up Brian Strait and tell me who's picture comes up in his place.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/_/id/5226/brian-strait
Hamonic and MacDonald have not had great seasons, but it's not like they were so great to begin with. They've never played on a non-lottery team...just because they play big minutes and are the Isles "best choice" doesn't mean they're good enough to be top pairings on a winning team. They just aren't.

Hamonic is a top four already, he still has upside and can be a top pairing one day. MacDonald is leaned on way too heavily and there is not another team where he'd be a top minute dman.

The whole roster is playing a line ahead of where they should be, with the exception of Tavares.

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Jurcina was embarassing. Carkner is not a bad deep guy. He can play a little. Really tough. Hes been hurt all year. Give him some time. The guys will like him. He will make Martin, Hamonic, etc tougher
Not much difference between guys like Staios, Jurcina, Finley, Carkner, Gervais, Hillen, Hickey, Strait -- just guys to eat up minutes, won't make you better, might make you worse.

The Isles haven't had a big minute defenseman who was all-star capable since Kenny Jonsson, maybe Roman Hamrlik. Adrian Aucoin really overachieved on the Islanders too.

It's one of the reasons why whomever plays goal will struggle. And why Ryan Miller is struggling this year. Bad defense can make good goalies look bad.....but Nabby is nearing the end of a great career. He's not the goalie he was and if Snow/Cappy don't expect poor play and deterioration then they're just naive.

The fact he's the best option on the NYI by a mile just speaks to how sorry the organization is. Which has been obvious to everyone for a long time.

The team needs to retain all the good players they have, regardless of age or contract status...then, they have to get BETTER players in the offseason.

There are no answers to the "is this a playoff team next year?" that are in the organization currently. Zero chance of that. And if you remove players like Visnovsky, Streit, Nabokov, Boyes and replace them with players from the NCAA and BP or Junior -- there's NO WAY this team will be better next year. No possible way.

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03-24-2013, 12:13 AM
  #53
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He is a potential hall of fame goalie who has a capuano led squad over .500 when he takes the ice. He is not overrated. This team has a lot of issues. Nabokov isn't one of them.
So what he did before he got here and what he did in previous seasons matters to us how?

Has he had a great career? Absolutely. But he's not that guy anymore, he's not awful, but he's not great by any stretch of the imagination. He's a serviceable goalie, that's it.

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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
Sub .900 save % at .899. Take out the Flyers and Pittsburgh games were he was left for dead in both and the Pitts start was 3 in 4 days which was mind boggling. I don't believe that 1 coach/team this year let a Goalie go 3 in 4 but i could be wrong. That was 13 goals scored in those 2 games where i can easily argue he should have never started in Pitts and should have been pulled in the 3rd vs Philly if not sooner. His record is 13-10-3 with again maybe the worst Defensive team i have seen in many years. Forget a 1/2 combo we barely have a 3/4 this year!

P.S. if our back ups went 2-3 opposed to 0-5 we are the 8th seed right now.
You can't take out games. He played them and performed poorly. He's not had a great season and he's just not as good as we'd like to think.

Can someone please explain to me how he can be considered good when there are at minimum 15 other goalies who are better than he is? Stop blaming the defense for his awful save percentage. The defense might not be great, but good goalie make saves and make the ones they need to in order to win games. He lets in soft ones now on a pretty consistent basis. I don't hate the guy at all and I'm fine with him, but there is definitely room for improvement at that position.

And who cares what our backups do, it's really irrelevant to the topic.

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Old
03-24-2013, 01:35 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy View Post
So what he did before he got here and what he did in previous seasons matters to us how?

Has he had a great career? Absolutely. But he's not that guy anymore, he's not awful, but he's not great by any stretch of the imagination. He's a serviceable goalie, that's it.



You can't take out games. He played them and performed poorly. He's not had a great season and he's just not as good as we'd like to think.

Can someone please explain to me how he can be considered good when there are at minimum 15 other goalies who are better than he is? Stop blaming the defense for his awful save percentage. The defense might not be great, but good goalie make saves and make the ones they need to in order to win games. He lets in soft ones now on a pretty consistent basis. I don't hate the guy at all and I'm fine with him, but there is definitely room for improvement at that position.

And who cares what our backups do, it's really irrelevant to the topic.
Name those fifteen goalies, and how they did with MacDonald unable to handle the puck all year, Haminc playing borderline awful and putting three goals in his own net, Streit being defensively inept 1/3 of the year, Finley being awful in the d-zone, Hickey being so smallish he loses the puck when checked half the time, the average clear being so awful the opponent is in our zone guaranteed, with little effort, the forwards not backchecking, the passing being horrendous 2/3 of the year, the coach putting the WRONG lines out in the o-zone and d-zone all game......how are they doing?

Oh, you can't alleviate the strawman. They play on better coached teams with better players.

So the lesson one learns is a solid top ten goalie playing with drek and awful coaching should be doing better but is not with a bad defense, horribly bad coached team and a condensed schedule.

Goalies are not human and don't get into funks or slumps. A bad situation does not manifest itself into one's work. Nabby just sucks to the point of mediocrity. The defense and offensive players neglecting to play defense play no bearing, ONLY THE OFFICIAL STATS DO!

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03-24-2013, 04:45 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy View Post
So what he did before he got here and what he did in previous seasons matters to us how?

Has he had a great career? Absolutely. But he's not that guy anymore, he's not awful, but he's not great by any stretch of the imagination. He's a serviceable goalie, that's it.



You can't take out games. He played them and performed poorly. He's not had a great season and he's just not as good as we'd like to think.

Can someone please explain to me how he can be considered good when there are at minimum 15 other goalies who are better than he is? Stop blaming the defense for his awful save percentage. The defense might not be great, but good goalie make saves and make the ones they need to in order to win games. He lets in soft ones now on a pretty consistent basis. I don't hate the guy at all and I'm fine with him, but there is definitely room for improvement at that position.

And who cares what our backups do, it's really irrelevant to the topic.
Well you proved my point by accident with that bolded statement. Irrelevant??? you think so??? It shows no other Goalie (thus far) can win a game with this lackluster D in front of them solidifying the point the D is awful.

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03-24-2013, 11:06 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
Name those fifteen goalies, and how they did with MacDonald unable to handle the puck all year, Haminc playing borderline awful and putting three goals in his own net, Streit being defensively inept 1/3 of the year, Finley being awful in the d-zone, Hickey being so smallish he loses the puck when checked half the time, the average clear being so awful the opponent is in our zone guaranteed, with little effort, the forwards not backchecking, the passing being horrendous 2/3 of the year, the coach putting the WRONG lines out in the o-zone and d-zone all game......how are they doing?

Oh, you can't alleviate the strawman. They play on better coached teams with better players.

So the lesson one learns is a solid top ten goalie playing with drek and awful coaching should be doing better but is not with a bad defense, horribly bad coached team and a condensed schedule.

Goalies are not human and don't get into funks or slumps. A bad situation does not manifest itself into one's work. Nabby just sucks to the point of mediocrity. The defense and offensive players neglecting to play defense play no bearing, ONLY THE OFFICIAL STATS DO!
Here's your list: http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...centageLeaders

You mean to tell me that ANY goalie on Florida should be ahead of Nabby on that abysmal team?

Sure the team is terrible defensively in front of him, but he doesn't steal games plain and simple. Other goalies will make 40 saves and steal a win for their team they didn't deserve, which games has Nabby done that in? I must have missed it. Have you ever played goalie before?

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Well you proved my point by accident with that bolded statement. Irrelevant??? you think so??? It shows no other Goalie (thus far) can win a game with this lackluster D in front of them solidifying the point the D is awful.
No, what I proved was that Nabby is serviceable and our other goalies aren't. You're really going to tell me that DiPietro should be getting wins in the NHL at this point? And the same with Poulin playing against teams like the Pens?

Our backup goalies just aren't good.

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Old
03-24-2013, 02:17 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy View Post
Here's your list: http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...centageLeaders

You mean to tell me that ANY goalie on Florida should be ahead of Nabby on that abysmal team?

Sure the team is terrible defensively in front of him, but he doesn't steal games plain and simple. Other goalies will make 40 saves and steal a win for their team they didn't deserve, which games has Nabby done that in? I must have missed it. Have you ever played goalie before?
statsstatsstatsstatsstats......missing the forest through the trees. If Hamonic doesn't score one of his few goals on his own net, just one, Nabby's over .900. How many goals do we get back if our defenders aren't running around not hitting, not clearing the crease for him like one would expect a pro to do? Maybe 5? 10? Save percentage goes up more, GAA down more. Now if our team plays hahhhhhhhduh? Nabby could be at .920 under 3.00. H! Stats! Eliminate the context and you can fit an elephant through a straw. Show the context for support and you're full of it.

The team defense is horrible and he's a few games over .500. WOW! That's BAAAAD!

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03-24-2013, 02:20 PM
  #58
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BTW, I put such filler nonsense as the Nabby argument as a means for some to think fixing the Islanders can be done in one step. Nabby must be the problem....and Cappy. Fix those or just one and we're in the playoffs because the team I root for is great!

Snow, lack of a second line center, soft play, waiver pickup defense, no toughness, no size, bad matchups with lines, an owner who doesn't know L's are bad.....ignore those, please. We have one homerun fix to cure all ills.

Thus we're seeing threads on selling off all talent to get picks and abandon the season because Snow can replace every good player this summer, easily, rather than add one or two more good players to GROW the team.

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03-24-2013, 02:38 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
statsstatsstatsstatsstats......missing the forest through the trees. If Hamonic doesn't score one of his few goals on his own net, just one, Nabby's over .900. How many goals do we get back if our defenders aren't running around not hitting, not clearing the crease for him like one would expect a pro to do? Maybe 5? 10? Save percentage goes up more, GAA down more. Now if our team plays hahhhhhhhduh? Nabby could be at .920 under 3.00. H! Stats! Eliminate the context and you can fit an elephant through a straw. Show the context for support and you're full of it.

The team defense is horrible and he's a few games over .500. WOW! That's BAAAAD!
Stats don't mean everything, but they do help evaluate players. I just gave you a Florida goalie who is on a worse team with a better save percentage than Nabby. I'll repeat that, worse team with better stats.

He is over .500 because the team scores more than 3 goals for his wins, not because he's stealing the show shutting teams out. Have you seen the team's record when they don't score at least 3 goals? Good goalies will win some of those closer games for you and he just doesn't. I'm not quite sure what you or anyone has a hard time grasping, he's just not as good as people are claiming.

I've seen Anderson, Rask, Crawford, Lundqvist, Backstrom, Niemi, Reimer, Howard, Emery, Allen, Fleury, Brodeur, Price, Miller, Ward, and even Vokoun be able to steal games for their teams. Give me two times this season Nabby played out of his mind and completely dominated. He just hasn't.

And considering I've watched every game this season, and played the position myself, I'm fairly certain I'm qualified to say he's being overrated by Isles fans.

Prove to me that he isn't. Hammonic's tips don't have a whole lot to do with his play.

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Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey View Post
BTW, I put such filler nonsense as the Nabby argument as a means for some to think fixing the Islanders can be done in one step. Nabby must be the problem....and Cappy. Fix those or just one and we're in the playoffs because the team I root for is great!
I've never suggested he's a problem, in fact I said he was serviceable. He's not something I'd touch unless I was sure to be getting an upgrade right now, there are definitely more pressing issues than him (not that I consider him to be an issue).

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03-24-2013, 02:44 PM
  #60
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In my eyes Hamonic is having a off year and was much better last year. McDonald has been sub par this year also. Jurcina,Staios,and Eaton at least had NHL experience where as Finley,Strait, and Hickey had a combined 40 NHL games under their belts. Jurcina was better then Carkner IMHO. Streit has played the same and Visnovski who was added is a great offensive Dman but really not so good on the D side of the game. Explain to me how last year was worse though?

P.S. I hate ESPN. I looked up Brian Strait and tell me who's picture comes up in his place.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/player/_/id/5226/brian-strait
HAHAH Dude you really want to hate ESPN - then check out Stephen A Smith talking about the Chicago Blackhawks undefeated streak VS the Miami Heat Streak

http://deadspin.com/5988390/stephen-...tephen-a-smith

This is by far the worst announcing I have heard in years. I work in TV Production, How not a single producer in the control room talked into the reporters ear, giving her info is even more bizzare. Same goes for Smith, they both have ear pieces where the producer and director can speak into. Instead they let the conversation go on and on... I only watch ESPN when the Yankees are on the Sunday Night game of the week. I cant wait for the new Fox Sports to premiere in August.

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03-24-2013, 02:53 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy View Post
Stats don't mean everything, but they do help evaluate players. I just gave you a Florida goalie who is on a worse team with a better save percentage than Nabby. I'll repeat that, worse team with better stats.

He is over .500 because the team scores more than 3 goals for his wins, not because he's stealing the show shutting teams out. Have you seen the team's record when they don't score at least 3 goals? Good goalies will win some of those closer games for you and he just doesn't. I'm not quite sure what you or anyone has a hard time grasping, he's just not as good as people are claiming.

I've seen Anderson, Rask, Crawford, Lundqvist, Backstrom, Niemi, Reimer, Howard, Emery, Allen, Fleury, Brodeur, Price, Miller, Ward, and even Vokoun be able to steal games for their teams. Give me two times this season Nabby played out of his mind and completely dominated. He just hasn't.

And considering I've watched every game this season, and played the position myself, I'm fairly certain I'm qualified to say he's being overrated by Isles fans.

Prove to me that he isn't. Hammonic's tips don't have a whole lot to do with his play.



I've never suggested he's a problem, in fact I said he was serviceable. He's not something I'd touch unless I was sure to be getting an upgrade right now, there are definitely more pressing issues than him (not that I consider him to be an issue).
And having played and coached for three decades nearly, I can say the teams and goalies you cite don't have a defense as abysmal as NYI's. We score....and we SUCK at defensive coverage.

Hamonic's tips, as I stated, show a big effect on stats.

Tavares being on defensive zone draws with Matty Moulson and Brad Boyes effects it.

Reasoner being bad effects it.

Finley losing the puck when hit in the own zone corner effects it.

Bad clears, about five a game minimum, effect it.

NO ONE clearing the opponents sitting in the crease effects it.

Bad passing in the neutral zone for turnovers or coughing the puck up in the defensive zone effects it.


You listed Florida. They play a defensive game with better passing. They hit. Jovo is out 3/4 of the year and they are thin but they have more talent. They are not scoring. They just are not that good. Their starters Theodore and Clemmenson are not faring very well, but Nabby has better stats with less on defense why?

Because he's better? Watch them in front of their goalie. Watch them and every other team protect their crease. Subtle facets of the game. I predict they will be hungry and have much better outlets, ESPECIALLY IN THE THIRD WHEN WE COLLAPSE LIKE ALL YEAR.

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03-24-2013, 03:21 PM
  #62
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Nabby is average. Our fans defend mediocrity because being average is better than a lot of what we have seen in recent history. I like Nabby but I'd rather him split time with a young upcoming goalie.

Also for those who said hes the best goalie we have had since X. I think Roloson was better.

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03-24-2013, 03:59 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy View Post
So what he did before he got here and what he did in previous seasons matters to us how?

Has he had a great career? Absolutely. But he's not that guy anymore, he's not awful, but he's not great by any stretch of the imagination. He's a serviceable goalie, that's it.



You can't take out games. He played them and performed poorly. He's not had a great season and he's just not as good as we'd like to think.

Can someone please explain to me how he can be considered good when there are at minimum 15 other goalies who are better than he is? Stop blaming the defense for his awful save percentage. The defense might not be great, but good goalie make saves and make the ones they need to in order to win games. He lets in soft ones now on a pretty consistent basis. I don't hate the guy at all and I'm fine with him, but there is definitely room for improvement at that position.

And who cares what our backups do, it's really irrelevant to the topic.
the backups are demonstrating Nabby's worth. Not just anyone can go out there and do what he's done this year.

Agree, you can't throw out games... but I also don't think there's any coach in hockey who would have left Nabokov in for the whole philly game or attempted to play a 37 year old 3 in 4 vs pitt.

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03-24-2013, 06:42 PM
  #64
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Uh oh, another shut out for the average goalie.

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03-24-2013, 06:54 PM
  #65
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Uh oh, another shut out for the average goalie.
Yep. Like I said yesterday...he is UNDERrated not over. This thread is ridiculous. Just close this up and he can be discussed in the Nabby appreciation thread. 3 shutouts in just around 25 games, Nabby is awful. Oh and let's not forget the few games where he had shutouts with a few mins left in the 3rd and for whatever reason the islanders just bent over and lost the shutout for him

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03-24-2013, 07:16 PM
  #66
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Yep. Like I said yesterday...he is UNDERrated not over. This thread is ridiculous. Just close this up and he can be discussed in the Nabby appreciation thread. 3 shutouts in just around 25 games, Nabby is awful. Oh and let's not forget the few games where he had shutouts with a few mins left in the 3rd and for whatever reason the islanders just bent over and lost the shutout for him
Nabby is average because he is inconsistent. He has his good games like today. He wasn't really tested today for the most part but he got it done. A lot of goalies around the NHL come out of this game with a shut out. He also his great games like last year against Philly where he absolutely robbed them. Then he has games like the one where he gave up 3 goals on 15 shots 2 of them being incredibly soft. Underrated goalies don't have below .900 save %s like he did before this game.

Do you really think he is a top 10 goalie or something? To me he is average which means middle of the pack. I can think of a bunch of goalies I'd take over him for the season.

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03-24-2013, 07:50 PM
  #67
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I think Nabokov has quietly become the leader on this team

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03-24-2013, 08:20 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by JetsMetsIsles View Post
Nabby is average because he is inconsistent. He has his good games like today. He wasn't really tested today for the most part but he got it done. A lot of goalies around the NHL come out of this game with a shut out. He also his great games like last year against Philly where he absolutely robbed them. Then he has games like the one where he gave up 3 goals on 15 shots 2 of them being incredibly soft. Underrated goalies don't have below .900 save %s like he did before this game.

Do you really think he is a top 10 goalie or something? To me he is average which means middle of the pack. I can think of a bunch of goalies I'd take over him for the season.
No I do not think he is top 10.. Top 20 maybe... Yes he's let in softies, every goalie does. Most times we lose because the team plays bad and just let's players walk in and rip shots lol the fact he is 4 games over .500 on this team amazes me. Goaltending position is absolutely the last position we need worry about with all this teams flaws. If he's on a good team he's sporting a 2.30 gaa and a .920 sv %

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I think Nabokov has quietly become the leader on this team
Absolutely. I love his demeanor, honesty, speaks his mind and always gives them a chance to win

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03-24-2013, 08:31 PM
  #69
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I like Nabby but I'd rather him split time with a young upcoming goalie.


And they'd be dead last in the league...

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03-24-2013, 08:50 PM
  #70
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Nabby is average because he is inconsistent. He has his good games like today. He wasn't really tested today for the most part but he got it done. A lot of goalies around the NHL come out of this game with a shut out. He also his great games like last year against Philly where he absolutely robbed them. Then he has games like the one where he gave up 3 goals on 15 shots 2 of them being incredibly soft. Underrated goalies don't have below .900 save %s like he did before this game.

Do you really think he is a top 10 goalie or something? To me he is average which means middle of the pack. I can think of a bunch of goalies I'd take over him for the season.
Nabby is inconsistent because he is an aging goalie being overplayed in a condesned season. Also playing in front of a bottom ten defense in the league doesn't help.

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03-24-2013, 08:52 PM
  #71
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No I do not think he is top 10.. Top 20 maybe... Yes he's let in softies, every goalie does. Most times we lose because the team plays bad and just let's players walk in and rip shots lol the fact he is 4 games over .500 on this team amazes me. Goaltending position is absolutely the last position we need worry about with all this teams flaws. If he's on a good team he's sporting a 2.30 gaa and a .920 sv %



Absolutely. I love his demeanor, honesty, speaks his mind and always gives them a chance to win
How is he 4 games over 500? When you lose in OT, it is still a loss. You dont get to just ignore it....

Nabby played well tonight and we won. Amazing how that works...

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03-24-2013, 09:11 PM
  #72
BROOKLYnKNIGHTS
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Originally Posted by duster19 View Post
Jurcina was embarassing. Carkner is not a bad deep guy. He can play a little. Really tough. Hes been hurt all year. Give him some time. The guys will like him. He will make Martin, Hamonic, etc tougher
We need an Enforcer like Carkner who can definitely play a little. Finley loses every fight and is god awful with the puck. Boulton is so useless and Reasoner is done.
Now we can trade Aucoin and Bailey to make us all happy. NYI need to target Bernier and let Nabby walk. Okposo, Boyes, and Viz are expendable.

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03-24-2013, 09:12 PM
  #73
JetsMetsIsles
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Originally Posted by Doshell Propivo View Post


And they'd be dead last in the league...
A good young goalie not one of our not ready prospects. Nabby isn't an everyday goalie at this point.

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03-24-2013, 09:13 PM
  #74
JetsMetsIsles
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
Nabby is inconsistent because he is an aging goalie being overplayed in a condesned season. Also playing in front of a bottom ten defense in the league doesn't help.
He's playing the exact same as he did early in the season when our best defenseman was healthy in Strait. Our D is better this season than its been in the last 5. He's inconsistent because he's inconsistent.

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03-24-2013, 09:15 PM
  #75
JetsMetsIsles
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Originally Posted by NYI JT91 View Post
No I do not think he is top 10.. Top 20 maybe... Yes he's let in softies, every goalie does. Most times we lose because the team plays bad and just let's players walk in and rip shots lol the fact he is 4 games over .500 on this team amazes me. Goaltending position is absolutely the last position we need worry about with all this teams flaws. If he's on a good team he's sporting a 2.30 gaa and a .920 sv %



Absolutely. I love his demeanor, honesty, speaks his mind and always gives them a chance to win
Lol top 20 goalie. Top 20 out of 30 is nothing to write home about. Its dare I say AVERAGE. The word I've been using. 30 teams and half of them have a goalie I'd take over Nabby or is basically on par with him. He's not bad he's just not as good as people here make him out to be.

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