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Nabokov is so overrated...

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Old
03-25-2013, 11:10 AM
  #101
Bexlyspeed
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Originally Posted by duster19 View Post
Depends on who you replace him with? Poulin? We are probably fighting with Florida. Brodeur? Probably in the playoffs.

Bishop, Bernier, etc probably right around where they are.

The Islanders are pretty well dead last in Goals against this year. Yes, our DEF is bad and our forwards dont back check enough. However, it is foolish not to think our goalie is not directly correlated to that stat.

Nabby is a quality goalie, but he hasnt been great this year. He needs help. Hopefully they address it at the deadline or in the offseason. Nabby would be a nice option in a time share.
oh i didnt know we had the ability to insert any NHL goalie into our lineup

and are you not contradicting yourself by saying that he is a problem, but with Poulin in net we would be practically dead last? so if thats the case then Poulin is Overated too, he is our TOP goalie prospect

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03-25-2013, 11:15 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Bexlyspeed View Post
oh i didnt know we had the ability to insert any NHL goalie into our lineup

and are you not contradicting yourself by saying that he is a problem, but with Poulin in net we would be practically dead last? so if thats the case then Poulin is Overated too, he is our TOP goalie prospect
Disagree. Anders Nilsson is our top goalie prospect. Unfortunately he has that B12 deficiency which has effected him this season. If not for that I think he would have definitely gotten the call before Poulin.

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03-25-2013, 11:26 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by NYI JT91 View Post
Also yes top 20 as in every goalie in the league not just starters.. Teams are using 2 goalie tandems a lot. It's no longer 90% of the starts go to top goalie on the team and some teams have 2 #1 goalies ie Vancouver, Anaheim, Ottawa, Chicago etc the 20th goalie in the leagues sv% is .916
I didn't say starters, I said goalies. So you're agreeing with me.

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that's pretty good and what nabby would have if on a better team.
You're speculating. He'd still let in the soft ones, because that's just what he does.

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He is tied for 3rd in the league in SOs only 3 goalies have more shutouts then him, and only 3 goalies have faced more shots then him ! Facing that many shots on a garbage team in a condensed season at 37 playing just about every game.
Nobody should care about the condensed schedule, it's not that big of a deal. The amount of games they play this season compared to last season's end is condensed by a few games...it's not as if they are playing back to back games twice in 5 days. Him being 37 shouldn't matter either. If you're talking about him being a great goalie at 37, then sure. But if you're talking about him being compared to other goalies, his age means nothing.

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Not to mention we are horrific at clearing the zone most nights and put way more on his plate then needed. Guy sounds average to me
It's a percentage...

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Oh and let us not forget all the deflection goals and screen goals that occur because we can't clear the dam crease or how many goals we've scored on nabby ourselves. The NY Islanders in so many ways are the reason his stats suck. Ie Cappy letting the flyers have fun with him in the 7-0 loss because no one on the roster decided to show up.
Every team has deflected goals and screens, that's part of the game. Have you watched every other game in the NHL to make sure that it happens to Nabby the most? Even Lundqvist gets scored on a lot by tips and screens, because that's the only way you can score verses him. Are those not his fault?

The team is bad defensively, we get that. Capuano isn't smart, we get that as well. That doesn't mean that Nabby is some amazing goaltender.

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Thank you. You hit the nail on the head as have many others on here. Just a few that think he sucks or is "okay" lol
Nobody said he sucks, and you agreed with me with your '20th best in the league' comment. So cheers to you.

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Originally Posted by Bexlyspeed View Post
I would love to see where this team would be in the standings without Nabokov!
the guy never gets a rest, he has a patchwork D, in which most of was put together on the eve of the season via the waiver wire.
and for every "Soft goal" he has let in, 5 more have gone past him due to his teamates stading around watching the puck pinball around the crease, or in Hamonic's case, knocking the puck in with various parts of his body.

gimme a a break
Why is he letting in soft ones consistently? I don't care how many aren't his fault, if 15% of the goals you allow are soft ones...that's a problem.

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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
Nabby bails out this team on a nightly basis, better team or not, He has been one of the most important players on this team in their playoff run.
When? Cite specific examples. Half the time he makes a great save and two minutes later he's flopping around on the ice with no clue where the puck is and lets in a soft one.

I don't think he's a problem on this team, I just don't think he's an amazing goalie at this point in his career.

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Originally Posted by wingnutks View Post
One of the hardest workers on the team.
I don't know what player you're watching...

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Old
03-25-2013, 12:58 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Have the GM/Owner get serious about winning, and start addressing issues for now and the future. What else?

Cheers,

Dan-o
Well obviously. But until that happens Nabokov is a pretty good man for the job.

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03-25-2013, 01:15 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by seafoam View Post
Nabby bails out this team on a nightly basis, better team or not, He has been one of the most important players on this team in their playoff run.
Yeah he really bailed us out all those times he gave up huge 3rd period leads. 3 goals to Florida in 2 minutes. 2 to Ottawa and another at the end of the game for the loss. Consistently gives up goals immediately after we score. Gives up goals at the very beginning and ends of periods. Really bails us out with those.

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03-25-2013, 01:22 PM
  #106
Doshell Propivo
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Would I want Nabakov as my starter if I were assembling a cup contender? No.
Would he be my first choice if I were starting a team from scratch? No.
Is he a legitimate NHL starter that can give his team a chance to win regularly? Yes

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03-25-2013, 01:26 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by JetsMetsIsles View Post
Yeah he really bailed us out all those times he gave up huge 3rd period leads. 3 goals to Florida in 2 minutes. 2 to Ottawa and another at the end of the game for the loss. Consistently gives up goals immediately after we score. Gives up goals at the very beginning and ends of periods. Really bails us out with those.
I guess defensive breakdowns, turnovers, terrible coaching, and overall lazy play from the rest of the team don't factor into giving up those goals anymore?

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03-25-2013, 01:50 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
I guess defensive breakdowns, turnovers, terrible coaching, and overall lazy play from the rest of the team don't factor into giving up those goals anymore?
I guess you don't know what bailing out means? Bailing out is when someone makes a mistake another player picks up the slack. If someone is going to claim Nabby bails us out a lot then I will point out the numerous times he hasn't.

I never claim nabby is bad because he is not. He's just not nearly as good as some of you make him out to be. Look how many excuses you are making to defend a .900 save % goalie.

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03-25-2013, 02:45 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by JetsMetsIsles View Post
I guess you don't know what bailing out means? Bailing out is when someone makes a mistake another player picks up the slack. If someone is going to claim Nabby bails us out a lot then I will point out the numerous times he hasn't.

I never claim nabby is bad because he is not. He's just not nearly as good as some of you make him out to be. Look how many excuses you are making to defend a .900 save % goalie.
You're acting like Nabokov is supposed to save everything.

How about all the times his defense hasn't bailed him out? It works both ways.

With your logic I can blame a soft goal given up by Nabokov on the defense because they didn't block the shot or force a turnover before the shot.

Its really easy to always blame the goaltender and ignore everyone else.

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Old
03-25-2013, 02:48 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Doshell Propivo View Post
Is he a legitimate NHL starter that can give his team a chance to win regularly? Yes
Sure. Some non-obvious questions.

Will he be a legitimate NHL starter next year? Does his current trajectory give you pause?

Cheers,

Dan-o

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03-25-2013, 02:53 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
Well obviously. But until that happens Nabokov is a pretty good man for the job.
Sorry, I haven't internalized snowwang logic and diminished expectations.

I'm not concerned about this year. I think the playoffs ship has departed ne'er to return. The Canes and Rangers are nearly away. The Caps have caught up. The Flyers will probably be next. If we lose to the Caps, you can seal it. That will be 3 teams between us and the 8th spot. The chances of leapfrogging 3 teams is nearly zero.

Nabokov has deteriorated. He will be worse next year.

Cheers,

Dan-o

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03-25-2013, 02:56 PM
  #112
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How can anyone ignore how horrible our team defense has been, how every third period save for a half dozen has been awful, how Cappy is putting te wrong people out so often, how Reasoner is out last minutes in a game, etc.?

In a vacuum, Nabby, by just looking at his stats, has been pedestrian. Add the team in front and he's been decent. Add the team's players who are struggling and still getting quality minutes and Nabby's been pretty good. Add all together and have this debate and I'll add I'm upset Nabby hasn't turned the ice surface into frozen wine.

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03-25-2013, 03:02 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
I guess defensive breakdowns, turnovers, terrible coaching, and overall lazy play from the rest of the team don't factor into giving up those goals anymore?
Then he's not bailing them out.

And as a goalie, letting in goals so quick one after another is usually on you. He needs to step up and take control of the game at that point, he doesn't. He needs to help stabilize the team during certain stretches in the game, he doesn't.

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Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
You're acting like Nabokov is supposed to save everything.
That's actually his job.

And you're acting like he's not.

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How about all the times his defense hasn't bailed him out? It works both ways.
No it doesn't.

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With your logic I can blame a soft goal given up by Nabokov on the defense because they didn't block the shot or force a turnover before the shot.
Often times players are supposed to let certain shots go through, because they are low percentage plays and tipping them or trying to block them would result in weird bounces that would go in.

Soft goals are on the goalie, plain and simple.

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Its really easy to always blame the goaltender and ignore everyone else.
But we're not doing that. We like Nabby, we just don't think he's that great.

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Old
03-25-2013, 03:23 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy View Post
Then he's not bailing them out.

And as a goalie, letting in goals so quick one after another is usually on you. He needs to step up and take control of the game at that point, he doesn't. He needs to help stabilize the team during certain stretches in the game, he doesn't.
Once again, people pretending the rest of the team isn't to blame at all. I hope you don't think our defense was playing well when we gave up those 3 goals to Florida in the 3rd period the other night. Jesus...

Its also the job of the coach and captains to stabilize the team during certain stretches. Don't see too much of that going on.

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That's actually his job.

And you're acting like he's not.
Well then I guess all 30 NHL starting goalies suck at their jobs.

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No it doesn't.
Okay? Yes it does.

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Often times players are supposed to let certain shots go through, because they are low percentage plays and tipping them or trying to block them would result in weird bounces that would go in.

Soft goals are on the goalie, plain and simple.
I don't recall one time this season when a player let a shot go through on purpose and Nabokov let it in. Who knows, I may be wrong. Show me an example.

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But we're not doing that. We like Nabby, we just don't think he's that great.
Some people are. I like Nabby as well, I just don't think he's as bad as some of you do.

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03-25-2013, 04:02 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
You're acting like Nabokov is supposed to save everything.

How about all the times his defense hasn't bailed him out? It works both ways.

With your logic I can blame a soft goal given up by Nabokov on the defense because they didn't block the shot or force a turnover before the shot.

Its really easy to always blame the goaltender and ignore everyone else.
No one is saying he has to save everything don't purposely be stupid.

No it doesn't work both ways. No Defense is purpose like no goalie is purpose. The goalie is the last line of defense. Goalie bails out his defense for the shots they let through.

I never said Nabby is bad. He's just not good. The numbers prove that. If we had a top 10 goalie we'd be in playoff position.

Instead we have an average 15-20 goalie so we are fighting for a playoff spot.

He's a good stop gap but not a good goaltender.

Show me one statistic that shows that Nabby is one of the better goalies in the league.

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03-25-2013, 04:07 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Hipietro View Post
Once again, people pretending the rest of the team isn't to blame at all. I hope you don't think our defense was playing well when we gave up those 3 goals to Florida in the 3rd period the other night. Jesus...
Did I say the rest of the team was playing well? No. I actually agreed that they weren't, but that would be the definition of bailing a team out or being a good goalie...being able to make saves despite that.

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Its also the job of the coach and captains to stabilize the team during certain stretches. Don't see too much of that going on.
It's true, but with a young team you're going to have stretches of breakdowns...you need a goalie who can withstand those breakdowns. It's apparent that Nabby cannot.

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Well then I guess all 30 NHL starting goalies suck at their jobs.
If you asked a goalie what his job is what do you think he's going to say? The answer is, 'to not let the puck in the net', and some do it better than others.

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Okay? Yes it does.
If I need to explain it to you, then you just don't understand what it means to play the position.

He is the last line of defense, he is the one who needs to make the big saves, he is the one who needs to keep the team in the game, he is the one who bails out the team when they make a mistake. How exactly do you propose a defense bails out a goalie when he messes up? Are defenders supposed to be flying into the crease area and batting pucks out of the air?

Goalies have the least forgiving job in the NHL, regardless of how fair that may be, it's a reality.

The only bailing out a team can do for a goalie is to go and score more goals. That's about it, and in case you haven't noticed, the Isles are pretty good at scoring.

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I don't recall one time this season when a player let a shot go through on purpose and Nabokov let it in. Who knows, I may be wrong. Show me an example.
Any time an opposing player shoots it from a bad angle, you can let those through. It happens about every game, it's all about percentages. Why do you think you're supposed to keep players to the outside? It's harder for them to score. If an opposing player scores off the wall, that's on the goalie. If an opposing player scores with a clear sight lane to the goalie, that's on the goalie.

I'll be sure to watch the next game and write down the times.

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Some people are. I like Nabby as well, I just don't think he's as bad as some of you do.
I don't think any of us still debating are.

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03-25-2013, 04:26 PM
  #117
Doshell Propivo
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Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Sure. Some non-obvious questions.

Will he be a legitimate NHL starter next year? Does his current trajectory give you pause?

Cheers,

Dan-o
Fair questions and their significance is heightened considering the current internal options are not very attractive.

Anytime you have your #1 netminder approaching 40, it gives you pause and has to be looked at before next season begins. I was responding more to the folks here who believe Nabakov is one of the weak links NOW on this squad when, in reality, he is one of the MVPs.

Next year? Sure, in an ideal world we'd get an upgrade but I think he still has enough gas in the tank to be relied on to take a team to the playoffs for at least another season. Of course that's assuming other, more pressing holes are filled (which I'd bet my house on that they won't be).

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03-25-2013, 04:44 PM
  #118
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To me Nabby is not a problem, if anything his .902% save percentage is roughly 20th in the league for starters (I say roughly because some teams have 2 starters and split time) and to me that's not bad considering who he's playing behind. And I'm not gonna bash the defensive players all that much either, defense in hockey is a 5-man unit...You can have the top 6 defenseman in the league, if your forwards don't help out your gonna give up a lot of chances.

With a more defensively responsible system, he could be in the top 10-15 in save percentage. All to often there are players uncovered, skating through the slot untouched and point shots with a clean path to the net. I put a lot of our defensive lapses on our forwards especially because with half of our opening night roster on defense picked up off waivers....I couldn't ask a whole lot more from them. They have been ok for the talent level we have back there. The system is not great, Nabby is not the problem

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03-25-2013, 04:52 PM
  #119
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People who arguing "he is not our future" are being ridiculous. I'm 1 of his biggest fans but if we can get Bernier,Bishop, or Khudobin i would trade Nabby in a heartbeat come next Wednesday if in some way it would help get any of those 3 here. People are trying to say he is no longer a #1..That is False for right now. I showed the stats that he has started the 2nd most games in the NHL and has a Winning record (14-10-3) even if you want to count the OT losses he still does (14-13). I have also argued if we had a capable back up who won 2 of the 5 games he didn't start (0-5-0) we would be the 8th seed right now. Someone also said "if we had Brodeur we would be a playoff team"..in your dreams.

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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
I think a better comparison for him and stats would be with Goalies closer to him in terms of GS,Shots against, wins and losses


Here are the top 12 Goalies for starts and their stats:
Goalie..................GS...W.....L...Shots Against
Ondrej Pavelec......29....14...14...817
Ilya Bryzgalov.......29....13...13...762
Pekka Rinne..........29....12...10...729
Jimmy Howard.......27....14....8....762
Evgeni Nabokov.....27....14...10...777
Henrik Lundqvist....27....13...12...748
Ryan Miller...........26.....11...13...887
Antti Niemi...........26.....12....8....744
Mike Smith...........26.....11...10...696
Carey Price..........25.....16....5....666
Semyon Varlamov..25......9...14...791
Devan Dubnyk.......25......8....9....758

Out of the top 12 Goalies for starts he is:
tied for 2nd in starts with 27
tied for 2nd in wins with 14
tied for 4th in losses with 10
He has seen the 4th most shots against with 777
He is the oldest of the 12 Goalies at age 37 the next closest are Miller and Bryzgalov at age 32

So for all you stat lovers who want to show his GAA ans SV% numbers chew on that for a bit. At the end of the day no matter the stats it's about wins which he is 2nd place and he is again 5 years older then any Goalie on the list.

Also someone said " you must count the OT losses as well" and going by that he would be at 14-13 only Price would be ahead of him at 16-9 and Howard would also be 14-13 no other Goalie is at or above the .500 mark in this list.
Going by this season he has done more with less and asked to shoulder a load left to guys 5-15 years younger then him. How is he "overrated" again may i ask and that's the THREAD TITLE..not if he is our "future #1".

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03-25-2013, 04:59 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by MattMartin View Post
People who arguing "he is not our future" are being ridiculous. I'm 1 of his biggest fans but if we can get Bernier,Bishop, or Khudobin i would trade Nabby in a heartbeat come next Wednesday if in some way it would help get any of those 3 here. People are trying to say he is no longer a #1..That is False for right now. I showed the stats that he has started the 2nd most games in the NHL and has a Winning record (14-10-3) even if you want to count the OT losses he still does (14-13). I have also argued if we had a capable back up who won 2 of the 5 games he didn't start (0-5-0) we would be the 8th seed right now. Someone also said "if we had Brodeur we would be a playoff team"..in your dreams.
The irony is that is the same Brodeur who had save percentages of .903 and .907 the past two seasons, on better defensive clubs than Nabokov has played for.

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03-25-2013, 05:04 PM
  #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan-o16 View Post
Sure. Some non-obvious questions.

Will he be a legitimate NHL starter next year? Does his current trajectory give you pause?

Cheers,

Dan-o
Will he be a legitimate NHL starter next year? Yes, on the Isles.

Does his current trajectory give you pause? No, but the Isles' D pairings do.

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03-25-2013, 05:13 PM
  #122
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Is TriCycleDusterMetsJets really Ricky? Hmmmmm.

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03-25-2013, 06:11 PM
  #123
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Is TriCycleDusterMetsJets really Ricky? Hmmmmm.
Have either of us said anything positive about Ricky who is the second biggest set back to this franchise behind Wang? No we haven't. Just because we're not verbally felating our mediocre goalie who has us out of the playoffs at the moment doesn't make us DP fans.

According to our fans everyone on our team is good outside a select few players. That must be why we have been playing so well for the last couple years right. Continue to support average players and you will continue to have an average team.

Nabby is what he is. A good stop gap option until our organization can develop a prospect to take over the reigns. Nabby keeps us competitive but he doesn't make us a winning team.

He's not overrated. He's not underrated. He's average.

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03-25-2013, 06:23 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by TriCycleDriveBy View Post
If I need to explain it to you, then you just don't understand what it means to play the position.

He is the last line of defense, he is the one who needs to make the big saves, he is the one who needs to keep the team in the game, he is the one who bails out the team when they make a mistake. How exactly do you propose a defense bails out a goalie when he messes up? Are defenders supposed to be flying into the crease area and batting pucks out of the air?

Goalies have the least forgiving job in the NHL, regardless of how fair that may be, it's a reality.

The only bailing out a team can do for a goalie is to go and score more goals. That's about it, and in case you haven't noticed, the Isles are pretty good at scoring.
I'm a college soccer goalkeeper, but I guess I don't understand what it means to play the position. Please tell me more.

Defensemen bail out their goalies by blocking shots, forcing turnovers, staying with their guys, not losing coverage in the D zone, clearing out rebounds and not letting opposing forwards beat them in anyway. This is a defensemen's job. That's how it works both ways.

And in case you haven't noticed, the Islanders' defense as a whole isn't particularly great at doing their job.

Its the whole concept of team sports. When one guy ****s up, another guy can fix it.

When a hockey team gives up a goal, its very rarely the fault of the goaltender alone.

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03-25-2013, 06:27 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetsMetsIsles View Post
No one is saying he has to save everything don't purposely be stupid.

No it doesn't work both ways. No Defense is purpose like no goalie is purpose. The goalie is the last line of defense. Goalie bails out his defense for the shots they let through.

I never said Nabby is bad. He's just not good. The numbers prove that. If we had a top 10 goalie we'd be in playoff position.

Instead we have an average 15-20 goalie so we are fighting for a playoff spot.

He's a good stop gap but not a good goaltender.

Show me one statistic that shows that Nabby is one of the better goalies in the league.
If we had a #2 center we would be in a playoff position. If we had a 1st line RW we would be in a playoff position. If we had a real #1 and #2 Dman we would be in a playoff position. If we had a better backup goalie we would be in a playoff position. If we had an NHL coach we would be in a playoff position. Should I go on...?

So many huge holes in the lineup and you choose to blame Nabokov. Please, bro.

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