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Babcock NHL's Best Coach according to NHL.com poll of 10 Writers&Broadcasters

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04-05-2013, 11:12 AM
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Babcock NHL's Best Coach according to NHL.com poll of 10 Writers&Broadcasters

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....medium=twitter

Writers were Ted Kulfan, Helen St. James, Ansar Khan, Bill Roose, Chuck Pleiness, and Bob Duff. Broadcaster were Ken Daniels, Mickey Redmond, Trevor Thompson and Mickey York.

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04-05-2013, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index....medium=twitter

Writers were Ted Kulfan, Helen St. James, Ansar Khan, Bill Roose, Chuck Pleiness, and Bob Duff. Broadcaster were Ken Daniels, Mickey Redmond, Trevor Thompson and Mickey York.
He's probably one of the better coaches, but i think it's safe to say that now, in the year 2013, he's no longer the best suited coach for the Detroit Red Wings. He's had his run, and he's expired. They should get a players coach. I think wings would do good with a Bodreau-type coach.

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04-05-2013, 11:16 AM
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Not surprising, I don't think Babcock has ever gotten near the credit he deserved around these parts. Even after the Wings won the cup there were some very vocal people poking holes in his contribution to it.

Coaches in general usually get too much blame and too much credit at the same time, though.

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04-05-2013, 11:17 AM
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He's probably one of the better coaches, but i think it's safe to say that now, in the year 2013, he's no longer the best suited coach for the Detroit Red Wings. He's had his run, and he's expired. They should get a players coach. I think wings would do good with a Bodreau-type coach.
When have the Wings ever been successful under a 'players' coach?

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04-05-2013, 11:22 AM
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When have the Wings ever been successful under a 'players' coach?
Like I've said before, it's sort of a mischaracterization to say that a player coach isn't "successful" when their job is not the same as a Babcock. It's overly reductive to say all coaches have the same goal. The player coach's job is to develop confidence in the younger guys and teach them how the NHL works, and he's better at that because he isn't the harsh disciplinarian that a guy like Babcock is. You can make mistakes under a player coach; it's part of learning.

The player coach's job is to get the players ready for a guy like Babcock. They get confident in their game and eventually they're ready for more structure and need more motivation to take them to the next level.

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04-05-2013, 11:25 AM
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I believe Babcock is a good coach but he hasn't made the most of the crappy roster that Holland has given him.

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04-05-2013, 11:28 AM
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Every team needs a certain kind of coach they need in their moment time.

After Dave Lewis, the Wings needed Babcock.

In my view, the Wings need a players coach right now... someone who'll loosen the reigns and let the players do their thing a little.

And after about 2-3 years of that, the Wings are going to need a new kind of coach

Outside of Bowman, no coach has won two cups with the same team -- separated by 3 or more years -- in like 40 years.


Babcock has sucked this year. Abdelkader took some heat off him with his hat trick the other week... but it's back to normal.

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04-05-2013, 11:35 AM
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Every team needs a certain kind of coach they need in their moment time.

After Dave Lewis, the Wings needed Babcock.

In my view, the Wings need a players coach right now... someone who'll loosen the reigns and let the players do their thing a little.

And after about 2-3 years of that, the Wings are going to need a new kind of coach

Outside of Bowman, no coach has won two cups with the same team -- separated by 3 or more years -- in like 40 years.


Babcock has sucked this year. Abdelkader took some heat off him with his hat trick the other week... but it's back to normal.
Agreed. I think it's a big mistake to assume that what's good for a veteran team is equally good for a young team.

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04-05-2013, 11:44 AM
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While I don't think changing coaches would be the worst thing in the world, it's a very tricky process. Getting the wrong coach can put this team back years as we've seen in other organizations. The idea of Dave Lewis being 'needed' for his 2 years here is incorrect to me, I don't think the Wings gained anything by that 2 years. After Babcock was hired we saw a direct progression in how this team needed to be shifted to win again. I don't see any other examples of hiring some guy for 2 years, firing him, then hiring another guy and it working being some real formula for success.

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04-05-2013, 11:54 AM
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My conspiracy theory:

Their peers and the media are only heaping praise on Holland and Babcock so can they will keep their jobs, when really, they know their complacency and incompetence are running the team into the ground.

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04-05-2013, 12:10 PM
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I honestly don't think he's a good coach.

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04-05-2013, 12:12 PM
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I honestly don't think he's a good coach.
Can you expand further? He's won basically everything there is to be won, I don't know how anyone could truthfully feel that way.

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04-05-2013, 12:14 PM
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Can you expand further? He's won basically everything there is to be won, I don't know how anyone could truthfully feel that way.
I think he's lost his edge in Detroit, though Heaton.

He needs a new situation. His moves this year are off the charts stupid.

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04-05-2013, 12:17 PM
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I think he's lost his edge in Detroit, though Heaton.

He needs a new situation. His moves this year are off the charts stupid.
Nah, I think at this point changing coaches is like throwing a bucket of sand on a fire instead of a bucket of water. Changing coaches does nothing if the organizational message remains the same. If the Wings let Babcock go, and we hire some players coach and all of a sudden Holland makes the correct moves, great. But why isn't he making them now? Why would changing coaches matter if Holland will still be prioritizing Cleary, Samuelsson and Bertuzzi over Tatar, Nyquist and Andersson?

Even if Babcock had opportunities to play Tatar with Datsyuk, that's it? That's the difference between knowing what we have and what we don't? There's way more to it, firing Babcock does nothing without a huge shift by Holland. It's firing Babcock to just bring in another guy to not have the right ingredients to make the meal.

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04-05-2013, 12:20 PM
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Can you expand further? He's won basically everything there is to be won, I don't know how anyone could truthfully feel that way.
Maybe it's just because he's been in Detroit all these years.

I used to think he was he best in the league but over the past three years he hasn't been good at all in my opinion. His decisions constantly make no sense, he isn't afraid to display his bias and he's getting out coached all the time.

Maybe he just needs a change of scenery to be the great coach he was, but right now he's living off his past credentials.

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04-05-2013, 12:28 PM
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There are lots of examples of teams winning 3 years apart, 5 years apart, 7 years apart, with different coaches. Or even making the finals with different coaches.

There aren't many examples of teams doing that with the same coach

Montreal - 86 Perron, 89, Burns (loss) 93, Demers

Calgary - 86 Johnson (loss), 89 Crisp

New Jersey - 95 Lemaire, 00 Robison, 01 Robinson (loss), 03 Burns, 12 DeBoer

Detroit - 95 Bowman (loss), 97 Bowman, 98 Bowman, 02 Bowman, 08 Babcock

Colorado - 96 Crawford, 01 Hartley

Carolina - 02 Maurice (loss), 05 Laviolette

Anaheim - 03 Babcock (loss), 07 Carlyle

Pittsburgh - 08 Therrien (Loss), 09 Blysma


The other thing that makes my argument a bit strong here is the number of times GOOD COACHES show up -- but on different teams.
Babcock. Johnson. Bowman. Keenan. Burns, Laviollete, Darryl Sutter

Good coaches find ways to get there again and again.

But except Bowman, nobody has done it with the same team, even three years apart.

Do people think Mike Babcock will ever lead these Detroit Red Wings to the finals again?
I'd bet anyone here $1,000... easily.

But I would bet $1,000 that Mike Babcock will never win a cup again. I think it's likely he will... or at least get to the finals.

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04-05-2013, 12:29 PM
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My conspiracy theory:

Their peers and the media are only heaping praise on Holland and Babcock so can they will keep their jobs, when really, they know their complacency and incompetence are running the team into the ground.
Anyone's whose name isn't that of a certain blogger out there is probably capable of seeing the problems in the philosophy of the Wings' management but yet they don't dare say anything about it. I think Holland and Babcock are not the people that this team needs right now, but I will not say they are running it into the ground just yet.

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04-05-2013, 12:35 PM
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There are lots of examples of teams winning 3 years apart, 5 years apart, 7 years apart, with different coaches. Or even making the finals with different coaches.

There aren't many examples of teams doing that with the same coach

Montreal - 86 Perron, 89, Burns (loss) 93, Demers

Calgary - 86 Johnson (loss), 89 Crisp

New Jersey - 95 Lemaire, 00 Robison, 01 Robinson (loss), 03 Burns, 12 DeBoer

Detroit - 95 Bowman (loss), 97 Bowman, 98 Bowman, 02 Bowman, 08 Babcock

Colorado - 96 Crawford, 01 Hartley

Carolina - 02 Maurice (loss), 05 Laviolette

Anaheim - 03 Babcock (loss), 07 Carlyle

Pittsburgh - 08 Therrien (Loss), 09 Blysma


The other thing that makes my argument a bit strong here is the number of times GOOD COACHES show up -- but on different teams.
Babcock. Johnson. Bowman. Keenan. Burns, Laviollete, Darryl Sutter

Good coaches find ways to get there again and again.

But except Bowman, nobody has done it with the same team, even three years apart.

Do people think Mike Babcock will ever lead these Detroit Red Wings to the finals again?
I'd bet anyone here $1,000... easily.

But I would bet $1,000 that Mike Babcock will never win a cup again. I think it's likely he will... or at least get to the finals.
Holland RELOADED for Bowman in '02 - let's see him reload for Babcock and see what happens. All of Holland's ******** of going for it last year by trading for Quincey is insanity. Holland believes that any team who makes the playoffs has an equally good chance at winning a cup. This isn't a Babcock focused issue, it's not like our GM has given him the tools to be a cup winning team and he just can't figure it out. We're behind the 8-ball because we don't have a GM who is doing a good enough job. Letting him pick another coach that does what Holland's mantra is gets us nowhere.

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04-05-2013, 12:38 PM
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Nah, I think at this point changing coaches is like throwing a bucket of sand on a fire instead of a bucket of water. Changing coaches does nothing if the organizational message remains the same. If the Wings let Babcock go, and we hire some players coach and all of a sudden Holland makes the correct moves, great. But why isn't he making them now? Why would changing coaches matter if Holland will still be prioritizing Cleary, Samuelsson and Bertuzzi over Tatar, Nyquist and Andersson?

Even if Babcock had opportunities to play Tatar with Datsyuk, that's it? That's the difference between knowing what we have and what we don't? There's way more to it, firing Babcock does nothing without a huge shift by Holland. It's firing Babcock to just bring in another guy to not have the right ingredients to make the meal.
Playing Miller with Zetterberg.
Playing Abdelkader with Datsyuk.
Not putting Franzen with Zetterberg, despite the fact that guys have had chemistry for a long time.
Plugging Kronwall and Lashoff together, and watching them fail miserably for two weeks before separating the,
Plugging Lashoff and Smith together and watching the rookies get destroyed when there were obviously ways to avoid a rookie pairing.

The poor powerplay despite good weapons
The constant lack of effort by Flip and Franzen
Benching Kindl on opening night.. Calling out Kindl was Kronwall and Filppula made a giveaway that resulted in a goal

His desire to coach the Red Wings like they are the 2003 Ducks

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04-05-2013, 12:40 PM
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Playing Miller with Zetterberg.
Playing Abdelkader with Datsyuk.
Not putting Franzen with Zetterberg, despite the fact that guys have had chemistry for a long time.
Plugging Kronwall and Lashoff together, and watching them fail miserably for two weeks before separating the,
Plugging Lashoff and Smith together and watching the rookies get destroyed when there were obviously ways to avoid a rookie pairing.

The poor powerplay despite good weapons
The constant lack of effort by Flip and Franzen
Benching Kindl on opening night.. Calling out Kindl was Kronwall and Filppula made a giveaway that resulted in a goal

His desire to coach the Red Wings like they are the 2003 Ducks
We could do this every single year for every single team. There was going to be growing pains this year regardless. One season sans Stuart and Lidstrom is not enough to make this call, especially in a shortened season with no training camp.

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04-05-2013, 12:44 PM
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Holland RELOADED for Bowman in '02 - let's see him reload for Babcock and see what happens. All of Holland's ******** of going for it last year by trading for Quincey is insanity. Holland believes that any team who makes the playoffs has an equally good chance at winning a cup. This isn't a Babcock focused issue, it's not like our GM has given him the tools to be a cup winning team and he just can't figure it out. We're behind the 8-ball because we don't have a GM who is doing a good enough job. Letting him pick another coach that does what Holland's mantra is gets us nowhere.
He sure did.
I'm not absolving Holland.

But I still think that Babcock can better utilize the assets he has.

Moves he makes simply make no sense.

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04-05-2013, 12:45 PM
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We could do this every single year for every single team. There was going to be growing pains this year regardless. One season sans Stuart and Lidstrom is not enough to make this call, especially in a shortened season with no training camp.
Let me ask you a question heaton.

Say Babcock is the best coach in the league. But say he can't win in Detroit.

Do you still want him?

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04-05-2013, 12:45 PM
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He sure did.
I'm not absolving Holland.

But I still think that Babcock can better utilize the assets he has.

Moves he makes simply make no sense.
That's fine, but I think all of these threads need to be linked together. It has to be a joint effort between the management changing philosophy and the coach getting the most out of the assets. We fire Babcock, we still have Holland handing the next coach Todd Bertuzzi and Mikael Samuelsson.

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04-05-2013, 12:47 PM
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Let me ask you a question heaton.

Say Babcock is the best coach in the league. But say he can't win in Detroit.

Do you still want him?
There's no way to answer that. He can't win in Detroit because... why? Am I assuming that Detroit has a cup winning roster but Babcock's coaching style won't allow them to utilize it properly? If that's the case, get a new coach.

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04-05-2013, 12:47 PM
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He's always been one of the very top coaches in the league. That said, he's been pretty questionable in decision making this season and his message maybe becoming stale in the locker room. You can't argue with results though, and even without Lidstrom we're still a playoff team.

But I've never put much weight in Adams voting in the past. It's only about overcoming 'adversity' as a coach, like a post-Lidstrom Babcock this season still making the playoffs. It's laughable that Babcock never won that award in past seasons just because of a good roster taking that credit.

This list isn't about this season, and it isn't limited to NHL success. Of course he's going to be first with his resume.

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