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David Desharnais - Black or White Edition

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Old
04-11-2013, 10:50 AM
  #751
Watsatheo
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
He scored 16 last year, just like Eller though.
My point was he might not be having as bad as a season to his standards, at least goal scoring/finishing wise. DD is producing at a career norm pace both by totals and shooting %.

Eller, at least statistically, despite having a career year is shooting below his career norm - suggesting room to grow.

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04-11-2013, 10:56 AM
  #752
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
My point was he might not be having as bad as a season to his standards, at least goal scoring/finishing wise. DD is producing at a career norm pace both by totals and shooting %.

Eller, at least statistically, despite having a career year is shooting below his career norm.
While Eller could also be taking some bad shots, the fact is he's generating chances and with a little better luck he could easily have another 3ish goals to keep up with the team leaders. He's 7th on the team in shots which means he's generating chances.

Desharnais has 10 more shots than Bourque...having played twice as many games. Wow. He takes less shots a game than a healthy Diaz did.

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04-11-2013, 11:16 AM
  #753
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
That is correct.

DD strengths:

Vision
Great passing
Dedication
Hard work
Toughness for his size
Great team mate and good guy

Weaknesses:

Can be knocked off puck with a feather
Cannot score on a barn door when wingers are well defended
Cannot out muscle his opposing C in the Habs zone

The weaknesses, unfortunately, massively outweigh the strengths for a 2nd line C on a contender.
Alhtough i agree with part of what you'Re saying (I totally disagree abouth his thoughness.....Gallagher is a tough player for his size, DD is not).

I recently talk about DD with a junior pro-scout.....and his answer was interesting.
First, let me say that the guy like DD.

But he said that his primarly weakness is how other players sees him.
Most player will be happy to face DD in a game. It's not that hard to contains him.
They won't have to skate hard to keep up with him and they won't get roughed up.

But he said he's so underrated by other player that this is also an advantage for him.

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04-11-2013, 11:17 AM
  #754
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
While Eller could also be taking some bad shots, the fact is he's generating chances and with a little better luck he could easily have another 3ish goals to keep up with the team leaders. He's 7th on the team in shots which means he's generating chances.

Desharnais has 10 more shots than Bourque...having played twice as many games. Wow. He takes less shots a game than a healthy Diaz did.
Pacioretty is only shooting 8.2% after getting 11.5 and 12.5 the previous 2 seasons in the NHL and 12.9 in his last season in the AHL. Maybe he'll get hot when the playoffs start.

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04-11-2013, 12:55 PM
  #755
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
My point was he might not be having as bad as a season to his standards, at least goal scoring/finishing wise. DD is producing at a career norm pace both by totals and shooting %.

Eller, at least statistically, despite having a career year is shooting below his career norm - suggesting room to grow.
Fair enough but as I think you(or someone else) may have said earlier the same can be said about DDs PP production. Below his standard. So both players have "room to grow" or perhaps both aren't at their optimal is a better way of putting it. I look forward to both of them succeeding. I've had my doubts about Eller but he's proving my wrong every game. I'm cautiously optimistic in regards to him. I think his shot needs work( numbers aside his release isn't sniper like by any means). I hope he improves it as it will make him a more complete player, more so than he's already showing.

I would not be surprised if these two are paired together in due time.

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04-11-2013, 12:57 PM
  #756
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
Pacioretty is only shooting 8.2% after getting 11.5 and 12.5 the previous 2 seasons in the NHL and 12.9 in his last season in the AHL. Maybe he'll get hot when the playoffs start.
When the guy freaking starts to shoot like he can he will. Now he's really just taking Gionta-esque shots.

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04-11-2013, 12:57 PM
  #757
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Why "Black or white" ?

I thought there were 50 shades of gray.

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04-11-2013, 01:18 PM
  #758
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When the guy freaking starts to shoot like he can he will. Now he's really just taking Gionta-esque shots.
What kind of Gionta-esque shots?

This season's 11.5% shooting percentage Gionta

Or his career 11.1% percentage?

Even if Pacioretty is shooting like Gionta we can expect him to score more going forward than he has thus far. But Gionta's shooting isn't bad, its pretty much exactly average for a forward. His notable attribute is taking a lot of shots at mid-level conversion which results in above average goal scoring. As a Hab he's basically Plekanec's goal scoring and 5 on 5 defense without Plekanec's playmaking. Pacioretty's trend is taking more shots than almost anyone in the league and mid-level conversion to result in a high-end number of goals.

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04-11-2013, 01:18 PM
  #759
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Interesting stats:

Even Strength Points among MTL centers:

Galchenyuk......19 (5g/14a).....11:27 av es ice time
DD................17 (8g/9a).......13:44 av es ice time
Eller..............16 (5g/11a).......12:49 av es ice time
Plekanec........14 (9g/5a).........14:24 av es ice time

Road Stats (all points):

Plekanec.....16pts +6
DD.............11pts +1
Eller............7pts -3
Galchenyuk...5pts 0

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04-11-2013, 01:21 PM
  #760
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
What kind of Gionta-esque shots?

This season's 11.5% shooting percentage Gionta

Or his career 11.1% percentage?

Even if Pacioretty is shooting like Gionta we can expect him to score more going forward than he has thus far. But Gionta's shooting isn't bad, its pretty much exactly average for a forward. His notable attribute is taking a lot of shots at mid-level conversion which results in above average goal scoring. As a Hab he's basically Plekanec's goal scoring and 5 on 5 defense without Plekanec's playmaking. Pacioretty's trend is taking more shots than almost anyone in the league and mid-level conversion to result in a high-end number of goals.
Shots that finish in the boards or shin pads, don't count

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04-11-2013, 01:21 PM
  #761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclones Rock View Post
Interesting stats:

Even Strength Points among MTL centers:

Galchenyuk......19 (5g/14a).....11:27 av ice time
DD................17 (8g/9a).......13:44 av ice time
Eller..............16 (5g/11a).......12:49 av ice time
Plekanec........14 (9g/5a).........14:24 av ice time

Road Stats (all points):

Plekanec.....16pts +6
DD.............11pts +1
Eller............7pts -3
Galchenyuk...5pts 0

Interesting, but Galchenyuk has played a handful of games at center.

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04-11-2013, 02:33 PM
  #762
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
He's not a natural goal scorer. He will never learn to let her rip. This is his greatest weakness, and he will be moved because of it. Eller is also not a candidate for top 2 center for the same reason, but he can play D, and he's big.
Any professional NHL player should know how to shoot the puck. You may not be good at it, but this is the cream of the crop, they should know how to shoot.

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04-11-2013, 02:42 PM
  #763
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Shots that finish in the boards or shin pads, don't count
I doubt Gionta is that bad when it comes to missed/blocked shots compared to other top-6 shooters. If anyone knows a site that keeps track of the number of shot attempts a player takes that wind up on net I'd be interested in seeing it.

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04-11-2013, 02:45 PM
  #764
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Originally Posted by Maltese View Post
Why "Black or white" ?

I thought there were 50 shades of gray.
That's the gorges thread.

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04-11-2013, 02:49 PM
  #765
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I doubt Gionta is that bad when it comes to missed/blocked shots compared to other top-6 shooters. If anyone knows a site that keeps track of the number of shot attempts a player takes that wind up on net I'd be interested in seeing it.
A total of 50 missed/blocked shots and he has 96 that landed, he has an 11.6% shooting pct.

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04-11-2013, 02:52 PM
  #766
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
Any professional NHL player should know how to shoot the puck. You may not be good at it, but this is the cream of the crop, they should know how to shoot.
This year he'd be on pace for 20g if it was a 82 games season and he's definitely scored goals in previous leagues. Its a bit extreme to say he doesn't know how to shoot..

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04-11-2013, 02:52 PM
  #767
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Originally Posted by overlords View Post
That's the gorges thread.
overlords FROM DOOOOOWNNNN TOOOWWWNNNNN. BOOM!

Joke of the night and we haven't even started the GDT.

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04-11-2013, 03:00 PM
  #768
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Originally Posted by Sorinth View Post
I doubt Gionta is that bad when it comes to missed/blocked shots compared to other top-6 shooters. If anyone knows a site that keeps track of the number of shot attempts a player takes that wind up on net I'd be interested in seeing it.
You can calculated pretty easy from tracked data.

This is for this season, Fenwick events are shots+missed shots, Corsi shots+missed shots + blocked shots.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

This is over the past 3 seasons before this one

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

Gionta tends to score on about 9% of his ES shots, and on about 4.5% of his ES shot attempts. This is about average for an NHL forward. Its below average for a primary goal scorer but his attempt rates are massive which translates into above average goal scoring.

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04-11-2013, 03:05 PM
  #769
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Considering the emergence of Eller and the untaped upside of potential - even at short term, of Galchenyuk, I think the only viable option would be to move Desharnais to wing. It's not like he is the one that'll take key faceoffs, and he's not all that involved on the defensive side either, so we might as well minimize his defensive responsabilities by moving him to wing and let him focus on what he does best - pass the puck.

We are thin on top-end wingers anyway, so it's not like Desharnais would steal anyones spot. I want to see Galchenyuk with more minutes next season - and he must play center. I think the same applies to Eller. None of our centers can currently step in and take the load, offensively nor defensively, from Plekanec, so he's here to stay for at least one more year until Galchenyuk starts finding his groove. When/if that happens, we could move Plekanec for a position of weakness, or go with a 3C model like Pittsburgh with Galchenyuk/Plekanec/Eller.

But whatever the management decides, I think this should be the last season with Desharnais as a center. I was one of his fan last season, even thought he could become a PPG player in this league, but that was mostly because of his unreal vision, which he still has, and his relentless efforts. He seems off a bit this season. He was a more energetic player last season, and I think that's what brought him that much success.

I'm still glad to have him locked long term. He's very talented and I'm confident he could be a consistent 50+ points winger.

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04-11-2013, 03:09 PM
  #770
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However this plays out, I think they are better off with 4 guys that can play center in the top nine than not.

You're in a lot better position to weather player absences that way.

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04-11-2013, 03:12 PM
  #771
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
However this plays out, I think they are better off with 4 guys that can play center in the top nine than not.

You're in a lot better position to weather player absences that way.
That, too. If DD proves to be a capable winger, he can still fill in a top 6 center role in case of injury, which is a nice bonus. However, given a healthy line-up next season, I don't want him at center.

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04-11-2013, 03:19 PM
  #772
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
overlords FROM DOOOOOWNNNN TOOOWWWNNNNN. BOOM!

Joke of the night and we haven't even started the GDT.
Got a drinking game in the works? I know it's a week day but I can't watch Sabre games sober.

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04-11-2013, 03:20 PM
  #773
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Interesting, but Galchenyuk has played a handful of games at center.
He's still 2nd on the team in ES points and 2nd among all rookies. I think he'd be in the Calder race if he was on a regular PP unit.

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04-11-2013, 03:31 PM
  #774
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Originally Posted by Et le But View Post
Got a drinking game in the works? I know it's a week day but I can't watch Sabre games sober.
When Vanek scores: 1 Drink
When Vanek scores at a back-breaking time: 1 Drink and blame Ryan White
When the RDS mics pick up Rick Jeanneret's squeaks and squeals from the other room: 1 Drink
When Carey Price doesn't steal the game: 1 Drink
When Gionta shoots high and wide: 2 Drinks

I HOPE YOU'RE READING THIS GIONTA, OUR DEATHS ARE ON YOUR TINY, ELF-LIKE HANDS. I HOPE YOURE HAPPY.

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04-11-2013, 03:45 PM
  #775
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
You can calculated pretty easy from tracked data.

This is for this season, Fenwick events are shots+missed shots, Corsi shots+missed shots + blocked shots.

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

This is over the past 3 seasons before this one

http://stats.hockeyanalysis.com/rati...0&sortdir=DESC

Gionta tends to score on about 9% of his ES shots, and on about 4.5% of his ES shot attempts. This is about average for an NHL forward. Its below average for a primary goal scorer but his attempt rates are massive which translates into above average goal scoring.
Thanks!

Looks like % wise Gionta is doing fine in terms of getting his shots to the net.

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