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The Rumours and Speculation Thread Part 2 (Post #693: Rumor -- Clowe to the Flyers)

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03-28-2013, 01:28 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
2012 Dustin Brown, Dustin Penner, Dwight King
2011 Milan Lucic, Nathan Horton, Rich Peverley
2010 Andrew Ladd, Troy Brouwer, Dustin Byfuglien
2009 Bill Guerin, Chris Kunitz, Tyler Kennedy
2008 Johan Franzen, Dan Cleary,
2007 Corey Perry, Chris Kunitz, Dustin Penner

And the list goes on and on. What do they all have in common? They all played a very similar role to Hartnell, and all were key cogs to their team winning the Stanley Cup that year. A successful team has 2 or 3 sandpaper guys like this that provide much more to the team than just offensive production. The Flyers have two with Hartnell and Simmonds. There's nothing wrong with having both on the roster.
We saw this same logic used when Knuble was let go. The logic used by a lot of people was "Hey, we have Hartnell. We don't really need Knuble!" Then Knuble's net presence and dirty goals were missed sorely the next year after Hartnell failed to become a super-player who filled two roles.

People are doing the same thing with Simmonds. Simmonds doesn't make Hartnell expendable.

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03-28-2013, 01:29 PM
  #552
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Completely disagree, Simmonds would with out a doubt produce more than Hartnell and he has not hit his prime yet. You think Hartnell will produce more than any FA winger the flyers would bring in?
How about we KEEP the guy we already have instead of letting him go and risking not signing the better guy in FA? Sound familiar at all?

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03-28-2013, 01:30 PM
  #553
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Completely disagree, Simmonds would with out a doubt produce more than Hartnell and he has not hit his prime yet. You think Hartnell will produce more than any FA winger the flyers would bring in?

That help sign should be for you. What FA winger right now would be better than Hartnell?

Pens fans boo him to death...that should tell you something.

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03-28-2013, 01:32 PM
  #554
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
We saw this same logic used when Knuble was let go. The logic used by a lot of people was "Hey, we have Hartnell. We don't really need Knuble!" Then Knuble's net presence and dirty goals were missed sorely the next year after Hartnell failed to become a super-player who filled two roles.

People are doing the same thing with Simmonds. Simmonds doesn't make Hartnell expendable.
Exactly. None of those guys on those lists are identical players, but they all contributed a level of grittiness that was essential to their team's success. I actually don't even think Simmonds and Hartnell are very similar players. Hartnell is the much better pure shooter, and Simmonds is better on the powerplay and the better skater. Neither guy should be going anywhere. I would like to add another talented winger for Giroux, but not at the expense of Hartnell.

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03-28-2013, 01:41 PM
  #555
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I wonder if Anaheim would consider Hartnell as a main piece for Ryan? Hartnell could be a productive second line winger for them and has a very friendly cap him. I am not sure what the Flyers would add, but that is a scenario where I would be ok with moving Hartnell. I dont want to see him traded just to make a trade though.

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03-28-2013, 01:43 PM
  #556
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I'm fine with waiting for Ryan to hit UFA. If his past statements are any indication he can possibly be had without giving up assets at that point.

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03-28-2013, 01:44 PM
  #557
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I'm fine with waiting for Ryan to hit UFA. If his past statements are any indication he can possibly be had without giving up assets at that point.
Same. Anaheim put themselves in a tough spot having Getz and Perry at 8M+ a year and the cap going down. I'm not saying it's impossible for them to resign Ryan, but it will likely make them extremely weak elsewhere.

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03-28-2013, 01:44 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
2012 Dustin Brown, Dustin Penner, Dwight King
2011 Milan Lucic, Nathan Horton, Rich Peverley
2010 Andrew Ladd, Troy Brouwer, Dustin Byfuglien
2009 Bill Guerin, Chris Kunitz, Tyler Kennedy
2008 Johan Franzen, Dan Cleary
2007 Corey Perry, Chris Kunitz, Dustin Penner

And the list goes on and on. What do they all have in common? They all played a very similar role to Hartnell, and all were key cogs to their team winning the Stanley Cup that year. A successful team has 2 or 3 sandpaper guys like this that provide much more to the team than just offensive production. The Flyers have two with Hartnell and Simmonds. There's nothing wrong with having both on the roster.
Troy Brouwer was 4th liner who at times got to play with talent

He really was terrible player for Hawks ,, Including him with key guys like Ladd/Byfuglien is a bit dishonest

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03-28-2013, 01:44 PM
  #559
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Originally Posted by TheLegendkiller View Post
That help sign should be for you. What FA winger right now would be better than Hartnell?

Pens fans boo him to death...that should tell you something.
I don't know the exact free agent class but with Perry off the market I don't think there's anybody who you would consider a major upgrade over Hartnell.

I know he's having a down year (along with pretty much everybody else on the team) and all but he's a year removed from scoring 37 goals. You don't score that many goals by accident.

The only teams that would want Hartnell is contending teams meaning that 1st rounder won't be as valuable as many think around here.

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03-28-2013, 01:49 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Troy Brouwer was 4th liner who at times got to play with talent

He really was terrible player for Hawks ,, Including him with key guys like Ladd/Byfuglien is a bit dishonest
Ok. Bolland or Madden would fit better I suppose, but it still doesn't take away from the point I was trying to make. Not to mention, the forward group for the Hawks that year was stacked. On most other teams, he would have likely seen time on a third line at least.

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03-28-2013, 02:32 PM
  #561
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How many times has Hartnell tricked us into wanting him traded for a jar of toenails, before becoming a crucial part of our best line? 3 times now?

You'd think we'd learn.
...and why is it that when Hartnell becomes a crucial part of a best line, he stinks it up the following year?

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03-28-2013, 02:36 PM
  #562
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I'm fine with waiting for Ryan to hit UFA. If his past statements are any indication he can possibly be had without giving up assets at that point.
Patience? Long-term planning? Economical moves? A Flyer's fan, you are not.

Also: Read in Yoda's voice.

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03-28-2013, 02:44 PM
  #563
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Patience? Long-term planning? Economical moves? A Flyer's fan, you are not.

Also: Read in Yoda's voice.
Patience? Heh. Long-term planning? Heh. Economical moves? Heh. A Flyers' fan craves not these things.

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03-28-2013, 02:46 PM
  #564
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i think everyone would concede that last season's 37 goals was an anomoly for hartnell but he is still a 25-28 goal scorer that does all the dirty work a PF should do and is a pain to play against. He'll be 31 net year not 41. Knuble, Andreychuk, Morrow, Roberts and Doan were all 20 goal scorers well into thier 30s. Unlike a guy like Cole that broke his neck and had back issues Hartnell has had a healthy career until breaking his foot.

Hartnell is a young vet that has been on a few deep playoff runs but yeah lets trade him becuase he isn't under 25 y/o. Aside from Briere or Kimo there is no one on the core of this team that is over 30. They are likely going to add a top 5 talent from this draft plus Homer will probably add one or two college freeagents.

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03-28-2013, 02:54 PM
  #565
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...and why is it that when Hartnell becomes a crucial part of a best line, he stinks it up the following year?
he only stunk it up 1 year then carried the team to a cup final that same post season. He has pumped in 25 goals regardless of whether he had Richards, Carter or Briere as a center.

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03-28-2013, 02:57 PM
  #566
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I'm fine with waiting for Ryan to hit UFA. If his past statements are any indication he can possibly be had without giving up assets at that point.
I agree. The only way it would make sense to me is if they are moving Voracek or Simmonds for a defenseman and need a top winger. Couturier might not get you a Shattenkirk or Myers or Yandle, but a Simmonds or Voracek may.

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03-28-2013, 03:00 PM
  #567
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Patience? Heh. Long-term planning? Heh. Economical moves? Heh. A Flyers' fan craves not these things.
Gus: How come I never get NHL time?

"You are too old. Yes, too old to begin the training."

Gus: But I have learned so much...

"...sigh"

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03-28-2013, 03:02 PM
  #568
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^ haha nice

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03-28-2013, 03:04 PM
  #569
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so can Briere be BOS's consolation prize?
Maybe we can get conditional picks based on if he is healthy for the playoffs or get to a cup. Damn, i hope he gets cleared play this weekend.

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03-28-2013, 03:34 PM
  #570
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so can Briere be BOS's consolation prize?
Maybe we can get conditional picks based on if he is healthy for the playoffs or get to a cup. Damn, i hope he gets cleared play this weekend.
He's not gonna waive.. his concussion will go away after the deadline

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03-28-2013, 03:37 PM
  #571
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He's not gonna waive.. his concussion will go away after the deadline
Are you positive? Or is this just your opinion?

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03-28-2013, 03:38 PM
  #572
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Are you positive? Or is this just your opinion?
I don't think he wants to waive his NTC..

the 2nd part was a joke. lol

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03-28-2013, 03:42 PM
  #573
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I don't think he wants to waive his NTC..

the 2nd part was a joke. lol
I understood the second part was a joke. I just don't know how we can sit here and say he won't waive. We really have no clue right now. His remarks about waiving his NMC when he was asked was the generic answer most players give when asked.

Hopefully he does come back before the deadline though. Not saying he will waive his NMC, but it would be better if we have that chance instead of him just sitting at home.

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03-28-2013, 04:07 PM
  #574
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I understood the second part was a joke. I just don't know how we can sit here and say he won't waive. We really have no clue right now. His remarks about waiving his NMC when he was asked was the generic answer most players give when asked.

Hopefully he does come back before the deadline though. Not saying he will waive his NMC, but it would be better if we have that chance instead of him just sitting at home.
I think he waves and I think we get a good return on him. Have we heard anything more about his concussion?

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03-28-2013, 04:27 PM
  #575
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I understood the second part was a joke. I just don't know how we can sit here and say he won't waive. We really have no clue right now. His remarks about waiving his NMC when he was asked was the generic answer most players give when asked.

Hopefully he does come back before the deadline though. Not saying he will waive his NMC, but it would be better if we have that chance instead of him just sitting at home.
From a financial perspective, he has several million reasons not to waive. His decision to waive will have to be tied to whether he wants values his opportunity to win a Cup more than he values the money + his proximity to his family.

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