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ATD 2013 Lineup Assassination Thread - Louis Magnus Division

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Old
03-25-2013, 06:10 PM
  #1
Dwight
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ATD 2013 Lineup Assassination Thread - Louis Magnus Division

Louis Magnus Division

Dwight - West Island Lions
monster_bertuzzi - Vancouver Millionares
Darth Yoda - Viking Maniacs
JFA87-66-99 - Pittsburgh Bankers

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Old
03-25-2013, 10:49 PM
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monster_bertuzzi
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Vancouver Millionares


Head coach: Punch Imlach
Ast. coach: Barry Trotz
Captain: Zdeno Chara
Assistant: Ted Lindsay
Assistant: Ed Westfall
Assistant: Eddie Gerard

Ted Lindsay-Denis Savard-Jack Darragh
Vincent Damphousse-Marty Barry-Alexander Maltsev
Craig Ramsay-Rusty Crawford-Ed Westfall
Louis Berlinquette-Murray Oliver-Todd Bertuzzi

Zdeno Chara-Marcel Pronovost
Eddie Gerard-Teppo Numminen
Barclay Plager-Andrei Markov


Tony Esposito
Rogie Vachon

Spares: Ed Van Impe D, Jason Allison C, Lorne Carr RW

PP #1 - Lindsay-Savard-Maltsev-Markov-Chara
PP #2 - Barry-Damphousse-Bertuzzi-Gerard-Pronovost

PK #1 - Ramsay-Oliver-Chara-Gerard
PK #2 - Crawford-Westfall-Pronovost-Plager


Last edited by monster_bertuzzi: 04-04-2013 at 06:05 PM.
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03-26-2013, 07:04 AM
  #3
Dwight
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West Island Lions



GM: Dwight
Coach: Lindy Ruff
Captain: King Clancy
Alternate Captains: Yvan Cournoyer, Lionel Conacher

Joe Malone - Bernie Federko - Mark Recchi
Clark Gillies - Brad Richards - Yvan Cournoyer
Bob Bourne - Fleming Mackell - Frank Finnigan
Yvon Lambert - Doug Risebrough - Bill Ezinicki
Spares: Cal Gardner, Patrick Kane

King Clancy - Bob Baun
Lionel Conacher - Pat Egan
Don Awrey - Jerry Korab
Spares: George Owen, Lubomir Visnovsky

Dominik Hasek
Ron Hextall

PP1: Yvon Lambert - Joe Malone - Mark Recchi
Brad Richards - King Clancy

PP2: Clark Gillies - Bernie Federko - Yvan Cournoyer
Lionel Conacher - Pat Egan

PK1: Fleming Mackell - Frank Finnigan
Lionel Conacher - Bob Baun

PK2: Doug Risebrough - Bob Bourne
Don Awrey - Jerry Korab


Last edited by Dwight: 04-02-2013 at 04:35 PM.
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Old
03-26-2013, 09:54 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Vancouver Millionares


Head coach: Punch Imlach
Ast. coach: Barry Trotz
Captain: Red Kelly
Assistant: Zdeno Chara
Assistant: Ed Westfall
Assistant: Frank Mahovlich

Frank Mahovlich-Duke Keats-Alexander Maltsev
Vincent Damphousse-Marty Barry-Jack Darragh
Craig Ramsay-Rusty Crawford-Ed Westfall
Louis Berlinquette-Murray Oliver-Todd Bertuzzi

Zdeno Chara-Red Kelly
Marcel Pronovost-Teppo Numminen
Barclay Plager-Andrei Markov


Tony Esposito
Olaf Kolzig

Spares: Ed Van Impe D, Jason Allison C, Lorne Carr RW

PP #1 - Mahovlich-Barry-Maltsev-Markov-Kelly
PP #2 - Keats-Damphousse-Bertuzzi-Chara-Pronovost

PK #1 - Ramsay-Oliver-Chara-Pronovost
PK #2 - Crawford-Westfall-Kelly-Plager
Some teams are built around a concept, and some are a more-or-less loose assembly of players without any clear, unifying idea behind the composition of the roster. This team seems to be of the latter sort.

Defense:

The best top-3 in the draft, bar none. Kelly, Chara and Pronovost is a hell of a way to start your defense, though there is a pretty steep drop-off after these three. Kelly - Chara is basically an ideal top pairing. Looking around the rest of the league, I think it is narrowly the best top pair, with only Robinson - Langway, Bourque - Coulter, Orr - Day and Harvey - Flaman in the same tier. Not much to say about these two really, other than that they are outstanding.

Marcel Pronovost is probably the best #3 defenseman in the draft. As it is, he would be a strong #2, so as a #3, he is in the super-elite or "slumming" category. Numminen was a good pick where you took him, but he is still a below-average #4, in my opinion, and I don't think he's a perfect fit with Pronovost. It's not a total mismatch, but Pronovost was a very rambunctious player who liked to roam around the ice looking to attack both the goal and the puckcarrier. As such, I think he'd be best off with a strong stay-at-home guy as his partner - somebody like Burrows or Davydov. Numminen was more of a two-way player who liked to handle the puck, himself, and I'm not sure if he's an ideal guy to cover for Pronovost when he gets out of position. At any rate, it's a fairly small nit to pick. The chemistry here isn't awful, but I don't think it's perfect, either. Having Pronovost at the #3 makes it a very strong second pairing, regardless.

Plager - Markov is a pretty meh 3rd pairing, in my opinion. Plager is an ok bottom-pairing ATD defenseman, but I think he's a classic example of a guy who was flattered by expansion. He ended up being one of the better expansion team defensemen for a while and became somewhat well-known as a result, but really, he'd have never been a #1 defenseman on anything other than an expansion team. Markov is a guy who you took to be a powerplay specialist, and he's fine in this role, though there is still at least one undrafted who I honestly think is better. Some of Markov's value depends on how you plan to use him. Teams with strong and deep top 4-5 defense can generally protect a weak #6 at even strength and let him only play PP time and take soft ES minutes - offensive-zone draws against bottom lines, and such. I think giving Markov "protected" ES minutes is probably the way to go, not because he sucks, but because his actual healthy peak has only been about 4-5 seasons at this point, and he's still green for an ATD starter. I think this is doable from an icetime perspective given the strength of the rest of your defense, though it would be easier if the quality was a bit more spread out (ie. if you had a better #4/#5) because the top guys can't take all the extra minutes by themselves.

Overall, one of the draft's best bluelines. I wish you had taken a better #5 than Plager (somebody like Tikal or Seiling would have been good, IMO), but third pairings aren't that big a deal, and your top-4 is going to dominate on a lot of nights.

Forwards:

Before I go on, I have to get this out: holy christ, why have you reunited Imlach and Mahovlich?! This is right up there with Coffey - Bowman and Balderis - Tikhonov among the all-time biggest "do not want" player - coach combinations. Sorry, but I just had to get that out there.

Poor Duke Keats. He is the Steve Rucchin of the ATD. It looks like Devil started a disturbing trend last year by putting Keats in the "slave" role on a 1st line between two high-scoring offensive wingers, but trends becomes trends for a reason, and that reason in this case is that it is a workable strategy if you want to go ultra-cheap on a #1 center. Keats has every quality of a good "glue center" besides footspeed, and defending against lines that can mount a swift counterattack will likely be the achilles heel of this line, just as it was for Lindsay - Keats - Selanne last year. The VsX project was unkind to Frank Mahovlich, though there are some serious mitigating considerations in this case, the biggest being that Mahovlich didn't escape Imlach's stifling defensive system in Toronto until the age of 30. Big M's goals also carry more weight than second assists, so VsX numbers will underrate him somewhat. Maltsev looks like the primary playmaker on this line, and I think he's pretty good in that role. The parts of the line all basically fit together, but it has a very weak player at center (which is the most important position in most schemes, and certainly was in Imlach's), and no ATD-elite talent on the wings. It will end up being a fairly low-end first line overall, I think.

You started the 2nd line with something of a steal in Marty Barry, who I think fits very much into the Stastny - Hawerchuk tier of centers in the ATD. He is very strong in his role here, though lack of a defensive reputation makes me question how well he will fit into Imlach's scheme. Imlach loved two way centers, and basically built his teams around them. Dave Keon was pretty much the quintessential Imlach player, but he also went out and got Red Kelly and Norm Ullman (for Mahovlich) to give himself even more two-way play down the middle. If there's one thing you cannot neglect on a Punch Imlach team, it is that the centers must be good checkers. The wings here are fairly lacklustre. Damphousse is a viable, though not high-end 2nd line playmaking wing who fits well stylistically with the goalscoring Barry. He'd be better as the 3rd best scorer on a scoringline, but in this case he's second best, and that's not so hot. Darragh is a player I've grown to like less and less the more I read about those old Sens teams. There was a lot of hype about old Jack Darragh back when we all discovered the retro Conn Smythe project, but the truth of the matter is that he doesn't appear to have ever been that great a player, nor that important to those teams, and he doesn't have much in the way of intangibles. I don't honestly consider him an ATD scoringline player, and I think you'd have been much better off finishing off the unit with a glue player, though by the time you took Darragh there wasn't much left in terms of scoringline-viable glue guys. Overall, Barry was an excellent start to what I think ends up being a below-average line, and I wonder how Barry's style of play will fit in Imlach's system.

The third line has a couple of elite wings surrounding a so-so center. Is there a more up-to-date bio on Crawford than the ancient MLD#9 one from seventies that is linked in the ATD bios thread? Based on that bio, alone, Crawford does not appear to be a good ATD 3rd liner. He seems to have peaked at 6th in points in the NHA, which is nothing special, and everything we know about his intangibles is that he was a fairly high PIMs player, and there is one quote from The Trail calling him good defensively. This is a fairly thin gruel by the standards of ATD 3rd lines, though I am hoping that there is a more up-to-date bio out there that I am just missing. At any rate, judging by the old one, I don't like Crawford as a 3rd line center, and again, I think you made a mistake going cheap at the pivot on a team coached by Imlach. The wings here are fantastic, but in lieu of more information on Crawford, I have to conclude that the center is pretty substandard, and I think that is a mistake.

The 4th line looks like sort of a mixed bag of special teams specialists. All good talents for their roles here, but I'm not sure how this line is meant to function as a unit.

Other:

Tony O is a strong ATD goalie. I've got him just inside of my top-15 all time, so that makes him just a bit above the average here. Thankfully, we have mostly put behind us the ATD dark ages where single mistakes were blown grossly out of proportion and playoff performance trumped career value.

Punch Imlach was an outstanding NHL coach, who was very good at getting the most out of teams that were not always the most talented. He is difficult to use here because he was a strict, often tyrannical disciplinarian, and a rigid system coach who in his capacity as GM of the Leafs was constantly molding his personnel around the system, which was sort of like a more neurotic version of what Arbour did on the Island and Bowman did in Detroit. Tough, two-way centers that backchecked constantly and intelligent, puckmoving defensemen who didn't overcommitt and get themselves out of position were the hallmarks of Imlach hockey. It is a classic system and Imlach was in some ways responsible for showing how effective it could be and lighting the path for men like Bowman and Arbour, though unlike Bowman (and Arbour to a lesser extent), he never showed that he was able to deviate from the system. This is in some ways unfair as Imlach, by virtue of his role as GM, never had to change his system to accomodate unwanted players, but it is what it is.

Overall, this is a team with a strong backbone - great blueline and good goalie, and at least the talent among the forwards to put in some goals. How the forward lines will come together under Imlach's system is my biggest question about this team. Will the 1st line score enough? Can Marty Barry play the "Imlach center" role, and if he does, can he still carry the offense for a 2nd line that is othewise lacking in punch? Is Rusty Crawford good enough to center a 3rd line that is otherwise excellent? I'm not sure about the answers to any of these questions, but if this team can get good production out of its forwards, it could go a long way.

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03-26-2013, 03:48 PM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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First off, I love the description of Duke Keats as the Steve Rucchin of the ATD - it's pretty obvious that's how I was using him with Selanne, and I do think it's very viable, depending on coaching.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator
The third line has a couple of elite wings surrounding a so-so center. Is there a more up-to-date bio on Crawford than the ancient MLD#9 one from seventies that is linked in the ATD bios thread? Based on that bio, alone, Crawford does not appear to be a good ATD 3rd liner. He seems to have peaked at 6th in points in the NHA, which is nothing special, and everything we know about his intangibles is that he was a fairly high PIMs player, and there is one quote from The Trail calling him good defensively. This is a fairly thin gruel by the standards of ATD 3rd lines, though I am hoping that there is a more up-to-date bio out there that I am just missing. At any rate, judging by the old one, I don't like Crawford as a 3rd line center, and again, I think you made a mistake going cheap at the pivot on a team coached by Imlach. The wings here are fantastic, but in lieu of more information on Crawford, I have to conclude that the center is pretty substandard, and I think that is a mistake.
The biggest issue with Rusty Crawford at third line C as far as I can tell is that he was more of a left wing who could play center but generally didn't than a legit LW/C

And as far as I can tell,, the ancient seventieslord bio is the best out there on him.

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03-26-2013, 05:02 PM
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I posted these articles on Rusty Crawford a few drafts ago (for Zamboni Mania, I believe.)

From the January 22, 1918 Toronto Star:



And from the February 25, 1918 Toronto Star:






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03-26-2013, 07:38 PM
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Thanks for that huge review, Sturm. I can't really complain about anything you said, other than maybe the third pair on D being weak (they're about average looking around the league at other teams IMO).

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03-29-2013, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
West Island Lions



GM: Dwight
Coach: Lindy Ruff
Captain: King Clancy
Alternate Captains: Yvan Cournoyer, Lionel Conacher

Joe Malone - Bernie Federko - Mark Recchi
Clark Gillies - Brad Richards - Yvan Cournoyer
Fleming Mackell - Bob Bourne - Frank Finnigan
Yvon Lambert - Doug Risebrough - Bill Ezinicki
Spares: Cal Gardner, Patrick Kane

King Clancy - Bob Baun
Lionel Conacher - Pat Egan
Don Awrey - Jerry Korab
Spares: George Owen, Lubomir Visnovsky

Dominik Hasek
Ron Hextall

PP1: Yvon Lambert - Joe Malone - Yvan Cournoyer
Lionel Conacher - Brad Richards

PP2: Clark Gillies - Bernie Federko - Mark Recchi
King Clancy - Pat Egan

PK1: Fleming Mackell - Frank Finnigan
Lionel Conacher - Bob Baun

PK2: Doug Risebrough - Bob Bourne
Don Awrey - Jerry Korab
Not a lot going on in this thread, but I'll take a crack at the almost-rhyming West Islan' Lions.

How fast is Mark Recchi in the ATD? I don't have a good feel on how many years of his career he was a "speedy winger" and how many he was a "crafty, cerebral goal-poacher." Most of my memories skew towards the latter, which would make me want to swap Malone and Gillies (Malone, Richards, Cournoyer and Gillies, Federko, Recchi), giving you a really fast first line and a more physical, plodding second line ... as is, I see Clark Gillies struggling to keep up with Richards and Cournoyer as they skate in open ice. The powerplay forward lines look closer to the mark.

Why is Lionel Conacher on your 1st PP unit? Reading his ATD 2012 bio, the word "shot" appears three times, and each time, it's no more than two words away from "block" or "blocking" or "blocker." I don't like Paul Coffey paired with a forward (Ilya Kovalchuk) on another team, and I don't love a slow, plodding, defenseman paired with a forward on this one. Your team doesn't have a lot of skill on the blue line (more on that in a second), so it's not like you have a lot of better options, but I would either put Clancy there or at least put Pat Egan there ... Egan at least had a big slapshot which could help from the point.

This team has tremendous physicality, a really nice bottom six forwards, and good forwards in general. Lindy Ruff will be outmatched in most playoff series, but this squad is right up his alley and he'll be able to get the most out of it. I'd still like to see a little more ability to carry the puck among the bottom 6 forwards and the defense. Ruff's best team (Hasek's 99 finalists) was limited to the legendary Alexei Zhitnik but his later teams had a lot more skill. I don't see anything like that here unless I'm missing something.

Dominik Hasek is as good a goalie as the game has ever seen, but he might need to be if these slow defenders can't get the puck out of the defensive zone safely and the Sergei Fedorovs of the league can generate turnovers.

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03-29-2013, 05:53 AM
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TheDevilMadeMe
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Statisically, Lionel Conacher seems to have been the third best offensive defenseman of his era, but he was way behind Eddie Shore and King Clancy. He was also way ahead of the pack, which seems to have been led by Sylvio Mantha, not really a guy known for his scoring. So it's hard to know how good he was offensively - he was basically the clear third best of the only three notable offensive defensemen during his era.

During the HOH defenseman project, we compared his offense to Rob Blake's. If Blake is a fair comparable, then I think Conacher would be fine as the second best member of a top PP, but I do wish he had a better partner there. He (like Blake) seems to me like more of a big shooter than a QB.

Edit: Wait, now that I look at things again, Dwight has both Clancy and Conacher? Yeah, Clancy needs to be on the first PP - I don't care whether he replaces Conacher or Richards, just put him there.

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03-29-2013, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Statisically, Lionel Conacher seems to have been the third best offensive defenseman of his era. During the HOH defenseman project, we compared Lionel Conacher's offense to Rob Blake's.
Using what methodology? Conacher may have been one of the three tallest midgets, and some sort of adjusted statistic might say their numbers are comparable, but how many pre-Doug Hravey defensemen belong on 1st unit ATD powerplays? Is Leo Conacher really one of them?

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03-29-2013, 07:39 AM
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Dwight
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Good point...switched Clancy and Richards.

Will have to respond to the rest of ck's post when I get home from work.

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03-29-2013, 06:23 PM
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monster_bertuzzi
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How does one of these threads have 150 replies and ours only has 10?

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03-29-2013, 10:44 PM
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Dwight
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For starters, only half of us actually posted our rosters in here at all.

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03-29-2013, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
How does one of these threads have 150 replies and ours only has 10?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
For starters, only half of us actually posted our rosters in here at all.
That's part of it, but if you read those threads, there are lots of tangents and rabbit holes ... not exactly 150 posts of critical analysis.

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03-30-2013, 01:13 AM
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Sturminator
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I posted these articles on Rusty Crawford a few drafts ago (for Zamboni Mania, I believe.)
That's great stuff, nik. I particularly like this quote:

Quote:
He leaped and curvetted like a two year old.
It sounds like Crawford was an intense and very physical player. There's not much on his defensive game in there, but this helps with an understanding of his intangibles. Thanks.

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03-30-2013, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
How does one of these threads have 150 replies and ours only has 10?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
For starters, only half of us actually posted our rosters in here at all.
There's only 2 rosters posted, and Mark is in the one with all the posts, so it's no huge surprise. I try to review every team with bios linked to their roster post, meaning I'll get to Dwight's team at some point, and only review teams that don't have bios if they're in my division.

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04-01-2013, 03:35 PM
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monster_bertuzzi
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It would be nice if me and Dwight could get more than one review considering some other teams are at about a dozen already..

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04-02-2013, 10:17 AM
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Dwight
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Agreed. At the very least, mb, ill assassinate you

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04-02-2013, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
West Island Lions



GM: Dwight
Coach: Lindy Ruff
Captain: King Clancy
Alternate Captains: Yvan Cournoyer, Lionel Conacher

Joe Malone - Bernie Federko - Mark Recchi
Clark Gillies - Brad Richards - Yvan Cournoyer
Fleming Mackell - Bob Bourne - Frank Finnigan
Yvon Lambert - Doug Risebrough - Bill Ezinicki
Spares: Cal Gardner, Patrick Kane

King Clancy - Bob Baun
Lionel Conacher - Pat Egan
Don Awrey - Jerry Korab
Spares: George Owen, Lubomir Visnovsky

Dominik Hasek
Ron Hextall

PP1: Yvon Lambert - Joe Malone - Yvan Cournoyer
Lionel Conacher - King Clancy

PP2: Clark Gillies - Bernie Federko - Mark Recchi
Brad Richards - Pat Egan

PK1: Fleming Mackell - Frank Finnigan
Lionel Conacher - Bob Baun

PK2: Doug Risebrough - Bob Bourne
Don Awrey - Jerry Korab

Forwards

I think you're light at center to be honest.

Personally I think Federko is slightly underrated around here but I see him as more of a second liner ideally. That being said I think his playmaking bias meshes really well with Malone. I like Recchi too.. he is also biased a bit towards playmaking but can score as well which is important because you don't want Malone to be the only option.

As Richards previous owner I am a bit of a fan of him, he does have that big playoff and Conn Smythe, and again you've built a line with all the cookie cutter pieces well. I think his resume is a little light for a second liner in this but your line might be more than he sum of its parts. Gillies is a physical force even in the ATD and is much more suited to 2nd or 3rd line duty than the first line duty I had him in with Trottier two drafts ago. Cournoyer gives the line a trigger man but I'm not sure that either of Gillies or Richards is a great second option so teams may be able to focus on him a little to prevent you from scoring.

Third line looks like a strong defensive and grinding type line to me.

The fourth line is all heart and grit. Very light on talent, but they will bang up the opposition if given the chance.


Defense

I think Clancy and Conacher will be relied upon quite heavily (much like Cleghorn and Howell on my own team). Clancy's size and Conacher's speed might make this tough on them.


Goaltending

Hasek might be the best ever.


Coaching

Lindy Ruff lasted a long time and had some decent success with some fairly mediocre teams but I think he is a relatively weak ATD coach.


Special Teams

I'd like to see more playmaking on your first PP unit and more scoring on your second.

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04-02-2013, 04:26 PM
  #20
overpass
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight View Post
West Island Lions



GM: Dwight
Coach: Lindy Ruff
Captain: King Clancy
Alternate Captains: Yvan Cournoyer, Lionel Conacher

Joe Malone - Bernie Federko - Mark Recchi
Clark Gillies - Brad Richards - Yvan Cournoyer
Fleming Mackell - Bob Bourne - Frank Finnigan
Yvon Lambert - Doug Risebrough - Bill Ezinicki
Spares: Cal Gardner, Patrick Kane

King Clancy - Bob Baun
Lionel Conacher - Pat Egan
Don Awrey - Jerry Korab
Spares: George Owen, Lubomir Visnovsky

Dominik Hasek
Ron Hextall

PP1: Yvon Lambert - Joe Malone - Yvan Cournoyer
Lionel Conacher - King Clancy

PP2: Clark Gillies - Bernie Federko - Mark Recchi
Brad Richards - Pat Egan

PK1: Fleming Mackell - Frank Finnigan
Lionel Conacher - Bob Baun

PK2: Doug Risebrough - Bob Bourne
Don Awrey - Jerry Korab
I like:
Dominik Hasek in goal
Clancy-Conacher is a strong 1-2 on D, with different styles but effective play, and strong leadership
Top-6 wingers are strong.
Classic agitating fourth line, with Esinicki replacing Mario Temblay from the 70s Canadiens
Solid defensive third line with some skill

Not so sure about:
This is a doughnut team. I've waited to draft centres before but you took it to an extreme. I don't think Federko and Richards will win many C matchups around the league
Hasek liked to see the first shot, so crease-clearing d-men are a better fit than shot blockers. You have a shot locker on each pairing (Baun, Conacher, Awrey)
Gillies will definitely clear space for his smaller linemates to operate down low, but Richards-Cournoyer doesn't strike me as much of a cycle line
Fleming Mackell at LW. Fortunately you can easily swap him with Bourne if necessary

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04-02-2013, 04:28 PM
  #21
TheDevilMadeMe
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Originally Posted by overpass View Post
Fleming Mackell at LW. Fortunately you can easily swap him with Bourne if necessary
Good call. Mackell was a much better center than he was a left wing. I'm not sure about Bourne's splits, but I can't see him having worse LW credentials than MacKell.

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04-02-2013, 04:32 PM
  #22
Dwight
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I can (and will) definitely swap Mackell and Bourne. Thanks for the reviews, BC and overpass. Will try and respond in more detail a bit later

EDIT: Also decided to swap around on PP units. Switched Cournoyer and Recchi, as well as Richards and Conacher to balance out shooting/playmaking a bit more.

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04-02-2013, 04:33 PM
  #23
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Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Good call. Mackell was a much better center than he was a left wing. I'm not sure about Bourne's splits, but I can't see him having worse LW credentials than MacKell.
Bourne is one of the few "true" utility forwards in the draft. Arbour played him just about everywhere, often using him as a fill-in for guys who were banged up on other lines. He was officially a 4th liner most of the time, but he played as much up and down the lineup as any of the 3rd liners, maybe more. He'll be as good on the LW as anywhere else.

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04-02-2013, 04:55 PM
  #24
Dwight
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Originally Posted by BraveCanadian View Post
Forwards

I think you're light at center to be honest.

Personally I think Federko is slightly underrated around here but I see him as more of a second liner ideally. That being said I think his playmaking bias meshes really well with Malone. I like Recchi too.. he is also biased a bit towards playmaking but can score as well which is important because you don't want Malone to be the only option.
I agree with you. I'm quite aware that my top 2 C's are not top of the line. I believe Federko is, at best, a bargain basement 1st liner, but I do like the fit between Malone and Recchi, and that increases his value in my mind (as you've stated, it works well). I guess the one argument I can make is that Federko put up very strong numbers on very mediocre teams, and I'm hoping that, while surrounded by better talent, he can excel.

Quote:
As Richards previous owner I am a bit of a fan of him, he does have that big playoff and Conn Smythe, and again you've built a line with all the cookie cutter pieces well. I think his resume is a little light for a second liner in this but your line might be more than he sum of its parts. Gillies is a physical force even in the ATD and is much more suited to 2nd or 3rd line duty than the first line duty I had him in with Trottier two drafts ago. Cournoyer gives the line a trigger man but I'm not sure that either of Gillies or Richards is a great second option so teams may be able to focus on him a little to prevent you from scoring.
The focus may be on Cournoyer, but his speed alone will make it difficult for opposing teams to truly cut him off. Gillies was my 1st line LW up until I decided to move Malone out to that spot. I like that the pieces fit together, and it seems to be a traditional "ATD Line" with every aspect of the game represented in some way.

Quote:
Third line looks like a strong defensive and grinding type line to me.

The fourth line is all heart and grit. Very light on talent, but they will bang up the opposition if given the chance.
Thanks.


Quote:
Defense

I think Clancy and Conacher will be relied upon quite heavily (much like Cleghorn and Howell on my own team). Clancy's size and Conacher's speed might make this tough on them.
Was Lionel really so slow? I must have missed that about him, but I'll take another look.

Clancy's a small guy, to be certain, but I think the way he plays the game more than makes up for it.

Overall, I believe my D unit is one of my strengths.


Quote:
Goaltending

Hasek might be the best ever.
I'd say that he is.


Quote:
Coaching

Lindy Ruff lasted a long time and had some decent success with some fairly mediocre teams but I think he is a relatively weak ATD coach.
Agreed, but again, I hope the fit makes him look a little shinier than he is. I built my team to be hard working, and full of guys who elevate their game when it matters. I'm hoping that falls right into Lindy's wheelhouse.


Quote:
Special Teams

I'd like to see more playmaking on your first PP unit and more scoring on your second.
Fair point. I actually made a few changes in that regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
I like:
Dominik Hasek in goal
Clancy-Conacher is a strong 1-2 on D, with different styles but effective play, and strong leadership
Top-6 wingers are strong.
Classic agitating fourth line, with Esinicki replacing Mario Temblay from the 70s Canadiens
Solid defensive third line with some skill
Thanks.

Quote:
Not so sure about:
This is a doughnut team. I've waited to draft centres before but you took it to an extreme. I don't think Federko and Richards will win many C matchups around the league
This is tough. I admit that my downfall may be that I had Malone at C for the longest time, and really made the decision to swap him to LW at the last moment, and grabbed the best C on the board: Federko. I completely changed my top 6 several times, and in terms of C's, it may have come back to bite me hard.

Quote:
Hasek liked to see the first shot, so crease-clearing d-men are a better fit than shot blockers. You have a shot locker on each pairing (Baun, Conacher, Awrey)
A fair point for sure, but Hasek was always good at getting to the puck in any way possible, some I'm hopeful he can adapt.


Quote:
Gillies will definitely clear space for his smaller linemates to operate down low, but Richards-Cournoyer doesn't strike me as much of a cycle line
Road Runner, especially, is definitely a north-south guy. I'm hoping Gillies can maybe ease up on the teams who will try and focus squarely on Cournoyer.

Quote:
Fleming Mackell at LW. Fortunately you can easily swap him with Bourne if necessary
Done.

Apologies for brief responses, and no real numbers or anything to back me up. I'm hoping to have more time in the coming days to do this better. When does assassination period end?

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04-03-2013, 08:45 AM
  #25
EagleBelfour
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I got curious, so it's my own version of MB's team, if the trade goes through

Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi View Post
Vancouver Millionares


Head coach: Punch Imlach
Ast. coach: Barry Trotz
Captain: Ted Lindsay
Assistant: Eddie Gerard
Assistant: Zdeno Chara
Assistant: Ed Westfall

Ted Lindsay - Marty Barry - Alexander Maltsev
Vincent Damphousse -Denis Savard - Jack Darragh
Craig Ramsay - Rusty Crawford - Ed Westfall
Louis Berlinquette - Murray Oliver - Todd Bertuzzi

Zdeno Chara - Marcel Pronovost
Eddie Gerard - Teppo Numminen
Barclay Plager - Andrei Markov

Tony Esposito
Rogatien Vachon

Spares: Ed Van Impe D, Jason Allison C, Lorne Carr RW

PP #1 - Lindsay - Barry - Maltsev - Markov - Pronovost
PP #2 - Savard - Damphousse - Bertuzzi - Chara - Gerard

PK #1 - Ramsay - Oliver - Chara - Gerard
PK #2 - Crawford - Westfall - Pronovost - Plager
1st line: Ted Lindsay is the second best LW of All-Time. All the qualities of an elite glue-guy, but much, much more terrifying in the offensive zone. On the right side, speedy Maltsev, a great playmaker, another dangerous offensive forward. Instead of inserting Savard, I decided to give those two winger the best centre of this team (well, after Maltsev) in Marty Barry. Although a better goalscorer, Barry was still a decent playmaker in his own right. Samething with Ted Lindsay. With a solid playmaker like Maltsev, I see it as a very balanced offensive line, very dangerous offensively.

2nd line: I always saw Denis Savard as a player that could create more things on his own, and he will need too, with two lower-end 2nd liner. Damphousse brings some defence to this line. Darragh, unfortunately, seems to be the best goalscorer of the line, which doesn't mean much. It's a line that should receive less ice-time in the regular season, but a bit more in the playoffs, Darragh being a solid performer in crunch time.

3rd line: An elite defensive-minded 3rd line that will receive 2nd line ice-time. They will pop in the occasional goal, but their task will be to check the opposing team best line. They should succeed more often than not.

4th line: A bunch of special team specialist thrown on the 4th line. It's a bit of an ackward line IMO, but they shouldn't have much ES time anyway.

1st pairing: Zdeno Chara is a low-end #1 defenceman, but a terrifying one. More of a defensive defenceman, he's paired with Marcel Pronovost, an offensive kamikaze, who's still good defensively. This pairing works very well together, but is below average in the grand scheme of thing

2nd pairing: Eddie Gerard is a fringe #1 defenceman in this draft, but an absolute elite defenceman to have on your 2nd pairing. With him, you Teppo Numminen, an all-around defenceman. A crisp passer. It's an excellent 2nd pairing.

3rd pairing: Barclay Plager is a defensive defenceman who can hurt you with a great body-check. Andrei Markov is the opposite of Plager, but one of the very best 3rd pairing D at moving the puck with his high IQ. I really like this pairing too.

Goaltending: Tony Esposito is a great regular season goaltender, above average no question, that can struggle at time in the playoffs. He's helped with one of the three best backup in the draft, Rogatien Vachon, who wouldn't look out of place as a starter, and may be valuable to his team success.

Coach: Punch Imlach should enjoy coaching Ted Lindsay and shouldn't have any big feud with his players. I like Barry Trotz there, as a calm influence with great knowledge of the game.

PP: The first unit is good, but nothing spectacular. I would of wish to see someone else than Marcel Pronovost. Andrei Markov is first PP worthy, but perhaps below average (I've seen a full decade of Habs PP running JUST because of that guy, so it definitely has his place on the first unit). The forwards are very good. The 2nd PP, just like your second line, lacks punch, but the defenceman are definitely good enough. I would just want Chara to blast some puck and see what happens.

PK: Not much to say. Both the 1st and 2nd PK unit are extraordinary, probably elite. It's a very tough bunch to score against on the PK.


Why are they gonna win:
- Ted Lindsay and a very good offensive first line
- Great defensive depth, from #2 to #7
- A third line that will be able to keep small leads

Why are they gonna lose:
- Huge lack of offensive depth after the first line
- At time, a shaky goaltender in the playoffs

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