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Leafs eyeing Kipper? (Kypreos: Kiprusoff will not report if traded, Post #316)

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Old
03-26-2013, 01:15 AM
  #226
Some Other Flame
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
People think an aging goalie having a crappy year is going to garner a 1st+? Wow
People think an over-the-hill former power forward having a terrible year is going to return a top prospect like J.Morrow? Wow.

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03-26-2013, 01:16 AM
  #227
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
You're not getting a top 60 pick for a 37 year old goalie.
He's 36 and I bet we do get a top 60 pick for him. Your own teams fans offered Biggs, Colbourne, Scrivens and a 2nd. Sportsnet and TSN are both saying a 1st+. I think asking for a 2nd is VERY reasonable. Kipper makes 1.5 million next year and has been excellent in the post season.

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03-26-2013, 01:18 AM
  #228
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it's true and you know it.
Someone is bitter they came to Alberta to make a fortune and isn't seeing the green.

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03-26-2013, 01:22 AM
  #229
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
He's 36 and I bet we do get a top 60 pick for him. Your own teams fans offered Biggs, Colbourne, Scrivens and a 2nd. Sportsnet and TSN are both saying a 1st+. I think asking for a 2nd is VERY reasonable. Kipper makes 1.5 million next year and has been excellent in the post season.
False.

He's had a save percentage under .900 the last 2 playoff appearances.

That's not excellent.

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03-26-2013, 01:22 AM
  #230
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post
People think an over-the-hill former power forward having a terrible year is going to return a top prospect like J.Morrow? Wow.
Which was such a smart trade for the Pens right?

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03-26-2013, 01:26 AM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Morgan Gardiner View Post
False.

He's had a save percentage under .900 the last 2 playoff appearances.

That's not excellent.
He played very well in the last post-season. He played average the one before and was killer in the playoffs before that. The team was brutal in the Anaheim series, which I bet you watched attentively to make that call right?

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03-26-2013, 01:28 AM
  #232
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False.

He's had a save percentage under .900 the last 2 playoff appearances.

That's not excellent.
Stats are everything.

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03-26-2013, 01:29 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Which was such a smart trade for the Pens right?


B.Morrow hasn't even played a game for the Pens yet, and J.Morrow is still very much a prospect. If the Pens win the cup with Morrow, would anyone, anywhere in the world, capable of rational thought, still think they lost the trade? Of course not.

The market price is high. Very high. It's why we're seeing Nonis's media mouthpiece in Dreger repeatedly say the Leafs aren't going to overpay to address their goaltending issues. The price for Kipper is obviously high, and likely higher than what the Leafs want to pay. But if they want Kipper, they'll have to pay up.

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03-26-2013, 01:33 AM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post


B.Morrow hasn't even played a game for the Pens yet, and J.Morrow is still very much a prospect. If the Pens win the cup with Morrow, would anyone, anywhere in the world, capable of rational thought, still think they lost the trade? Of course not.

The market price is high. Very high. It's why we're seeing Nonis's media mouthpiece in Dreger repeatedly say the Leafs aren't going to overpay to address their goaltending issues. The price for Kipper is obviously high, and likely higher than what the Leafs want to pay. But if they want Kipper, they'll have to pay up.
Yes, because this is HF. Prospects and picks >>> winning the Cup.

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03-26-2013, 01:40 AM
  #235
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Yes, because this is HF. Prospects and picks >>> winning the Cup.
I accounted for that.

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. . . capable of rational thought . . .

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03-26-2013, 01:42 AM
  #236
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Originally Posted by Some Other Flame View Post


B.Morrow hasn't even played a game for the Pens yet, and J.Morrow is still very much a prospect. If the Pens win the cup with Morrow, would anyone, anywhere in the world, capable of rational thought, still think thewy lost the trade? Of course not.

The market price is high. Very high. It's why we're seeing Nonis's media mouthpiece in Dreger repeatedly say the Leafs aren't going to overpay to address their goaltending issues. The price for Kipper is obviously high, and likely higher than what the Leafs want to pay. But if they want Kipper, they'll have to pay up.
Okay, so, according to you, no matter the impact, if the pens win the cup its a genius move? Right. The Leafs dealt Kaberle to Boston the year they won the cup and he was terrible. So that makes it worth it? Giving up assets in a lateral move where you win anyway...brilliant. You want the Leafs to pay up where they're in no position to win a cup? For an aging goalie on the decline in a market where very few goalies need goaltending? Genius

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03-26-2013, 01:43 AM
  #237
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Kipper has a bad save % this year but that's mainly from the start of the season. Lately he's been very good, including last game when he was vintage. If he plays like that between now and the deadline, he'll get a pretty good return. He's definitely a good option for any playoff team with questionable goaltending.

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03-26-2013, 01:44 AM
  #238
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I accounted for that.
Touche.

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03-26-2013, 01:47 AM
  #239
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Okay, so, according to you, no matter the impact, if the pens win the cup its a genius move? Right. The Leafs dealt Kaberle to Boston the year they won the cup and he was terrible. So that makes it worth it? Giving up assets in a lateral move where you win anyway...brilliant. You want the Leafs to pay up where they're in no position to win a cup? For an aging goalie on the decline in a market where very few goalies need goaltending? Genius


What the hell does the bolded mean genius?

Just busting on you, I know you mean teams instead of goalies

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03-26-2013, 01:48 AM
  #240
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Okay, so, according to you, no matter the impact, if the pens win the cup its a genius move? Right. The Leafs dealt Kaberle to Boston the year they won the cup and he was terrible. So that makes it worth it? Giving up assets in a lateral move where you win anyway...brilliant. You want the Leafs to pay up where they're in no position to win a cup? For an aging goalie on the decline in a market where very few goalies need goaltending? Genius
How is it NOT a genius move? The point of playing is to win the Stanley Cup, not see who can collect the most prospects. Say what you want about guys like Kaberle but I'm sure Bruins fans would make that trade 10/10 times since it ended with a Cup.

If you say the Leafs aren't in position for a Cup run and can't see the benefits of bringing in Kipper, that's fine. But, hypothetically, if they did bring him in and somehow won the Cup, would you really be able to sit there with regret saying it was a bad idea?

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03-26-2013, 01:48 AM
  #241
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Originally Posted by Man Bear Pig View Post
Okay, so, according to you, no matter the impact, if the pens win the cup its a genius move? Right. The Leafs dealt Kaberle to Boston the year they won the cup and he was terrible. So that makes it worth it? Giving up assets in a lateral move where you win anyway...brilliant.
Where are you going with this? Do you not realize the purpose of the NHL is to win the cup? Maybe the Bruins don't win without Kaberle, maybe they bow out in the first round instead? And that's the point; they won with Kaberle. How many Bruins fans actually regret that trade knowing Kaberle was a part (even if it was a small part) of their cup win?

Only on HF could people think getting fair value in a trade is more important than winning the Cup.

Quote:
You want the Leafs to pay up where they're in no position to win a cup? For an aging goalie on the decline in a market where very few goalies need goaltending? Genius
Frankly, I hope Kipper never wears a Leafs jersey. But if they're interested in him, they'll have to pay the market price. The Flames aren't about to give him away as a kindness to the Leafs, just because they want him.

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03-26-2013, 01:49 AM
  #242
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Originally Posted by litflyersfan View Post


What the hell does the bolded mean genius?

Just busting on you, I know you mean teams instead of goalies
Lol was trying to say very few teams need goaltending. Tabs are a pain

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03-26-2013, 02:03 AM
  #243
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Where are you going with this? Do you not realize the purpose of the NHL is to win the cup? Maybe the Bruins don't win without Kaberle, maybe they bow out in the first round instead? And that's the point; they won with Kaberle. How many Bruins fans actually regret that trade knowing Kaberle was a part (even if it was a small part) of their cup win?

Only on HF could people think getting fair value in a trade is more important than winning the Cup.



Frankly, I hope Kipper never wears a Leafs jersey. But if they're interested in him, they'll have to pay the market price. The Flames aren't about to give him away as a kindness to the Leafs, just because they want him.
Thanks for clarifying, wasn't aware the end game was to win the cup. Yes though, completely ignore that Kaberle had little to no impact, and was easily replaceable on that roster. They win that cup without question without Kaberle. They gave up assets when it wasn't needed. You ask for fair value, then I will look at the asset in question. Nearly $6 million on the cap, 35 years old,.873 SV%,3.43 GAA. You want market value for that goaltender? gladly. You want first round picks and great prospects? great, hold onto him, see how that works out.

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03-26-2013, 02:08 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by DBU View Post
How is it NOT a genius move? The point of playing is to win the Stanley Cup, not see who can collect the most prospects. Say what you want about guys like Kaberle but I'm sure Bruins fans would make that trade 10/10 times since it ended with a Cup.

If you say the Leafs aren't in position for a Cup run and can't see the benefits of bringing in Kipper, that's fine. But, hypothetically, if they did bring him in and somehow won the Cup, would you really be able to sit there with regret saying it was a bad idea?
Look at the percentages, tell me how many rentals result in cups. Then tell me how many of those rentals on cup winners had a major impact in the cup run. It will be an incredibly small number. The Bruins win that cup without Kaberle, anyone who watched the playoffs could have told you that and any hockey fan with half a brain could tell you they'd keep the pick and prospect over a crummy Kaberle that had zero impact. That's just logical. The Leafs wouldn't win with Kipper, that's just the reality. He's been bad this season and even if they received great goaltending, even a goalie on fire during the playoffs, they really don't have enough to win the cup.

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03-26-2013, 02:43 AM
  #245
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Count me in as one of those Leafs fans who still thinks Kipper has a lot to offer and just needs a change of scenery to rekindle the spark. He's had to play in front of a sub par roster for the last few years and playing for a playoff hopeful team like the Leafs might just give him the motivation to play like his former self.

I like the cap hit. I like the term. The Leafs are better off going with Kipper than with Luongo, even though I've been partial to a Grabovski + Scrivens for Luongo swap. I think the Leafs can actually retain Grabovski, which helps in the playoff run, and acquire Kipper for a 2nd + a decent prospect.



Matt Finn
Ben Scrivens
Conditional 2nd if the Leafs make the 2nd round or higher.



Kipper

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03-26-2013, 02:44 AM
  #246
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Calgary doesn't need Scrivens because Rämö is better than he is (yes he is much better now than he was in 2009).
they still would need a backup for Ramo if Kiprusoff is moved.

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Do the Flames have any goalie prospects that are close to NHL-ready?
Closest is Irving and they destroyed his confidence this year

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03-26-2013, 02:50 AM
  #247
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they still would need a backup for Ramo if Kiprusoff is moved.

Closest is Irving and they destroyed his confidence this year
Taylor is better than Irving. Lots better.

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03-26-2013, 02:50 AM
  #248
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Count me in as one of those Leafs fans who still thinks Kipper has a lot to offer and just needs a change of scenery to rekindle the spark. He's had to play in front of a sub par roster for the last few years and playing for a playoff hopeful team like the Leafs might just give him the motivation to play like his former self.

I like the cap hit. I like the term. The Leafs are better off going with Kipper than with Luongo, even though I've been partial to a Grabovski + Scrivens for Luongo swap. I think the Leafs can actually retain Grabovski, which helps in the playoff run, and acquire Kipper for a 2nd + a decent prospect.



Matt Finn
Ben Scrivens
Conditional 2nd if the Leafs make the 2nd round or higher.



Kipper
Since the debate is what Kipper has left, why not make a deal that is Scrivens + a conditional pick and have the conditions based on wins, or percentage of games won. Make the pick anywhere from a 1st to 4th

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03-26-2013, 02:51 AM
  #249
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Taylor is better than Irving. Lots better.
I don't consider Taylor a prospect anymoret

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03-26-2013, 02:55 AM
  #250
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I don't consider Taylor a prospect anymoret
The label doesn't matter. The ability does matter. Taylor can stop a puck, Irving can't even at the AHL level.

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