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Where does iginla and Kippers 03/04 Cup run rank all time?

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Old
03-26-2013, 01:12 AM
  #1
Puckgenius*
 
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Where does iginla and Kippers 03/04 Cup run rank all time?

jarome carried a very average offense on his back and was unstoppable and clutch. Kipper stood on his head every game and had a ridiculous GAA.

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03-26-2013, 10:42 AM
  #2
kmad
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Top five that year for sure.

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03-26-2013, 01:20 PM
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the edler
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All time? I don't know. But that whole playoffs – or specifically, that whole era – is a top 10 all time snoozefest. Late DPE with a lot of stars disabled, old and listless... remember this is the era were Markus Näslund looked like a Hall of Famer. That Flames team were really good defensively though low key with Regehr, Warrener, Leopold, Ference, Commodore, Montador, Lydman

I can't grasp or make sense out of how the Flames were that close though, literally a [robbed] goal from the cup. And then double overtime at home on top of that But then didn't every game at this point in time end up a one goal game?

But come on, a plug like Marcus Nilson played a significant forward role on that Calgary team

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03-26-2013, 03:18 PM
  #4
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I would rank Bure and McLean's run over Iginla/Kipper.

2003-2004 was easily the worst year for hockey in the DPE. The Flames were allowed to just mug the opposing team and get away with it.

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03-26-2013, 03:40 PM
  #5
GuineaPig
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They were good, but not ultimately that worthy of note.

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03-26-2013, 04:03 PM
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Doctor No
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From a pure save percentage standpoint, Kiprusoff's performance wasn't particularly notable (his 92.8% save percentage was 0.7 standard deviations above the field). Before anyone responds to that point, rest assured that I understand that it's not all about save percentage. It's a starting point for discussion.

Some notable ones better (actually, the top ten in terms of standard deviations above the mean for a particular playoff season):

Johnny Bower, 1963 Toronto (94.9% save percentage, 8-2, 3.2 standard deviations)
Patrick Roy, 1993 Montreal (92.9% save percentage, 16-4, 3.1 SD)
Martin Brodeur, 1995 New Jersey (93.2% save percentage, 16-4, 3.1 SD)
Curtis Joseph, 1993 St. Louis (93.8% save percentage, 7-4, 3.1 SD)
Richard Brodeur, 1982 Vancouver (91.7% save percentage, 11-6, 2.9 SD)
Olaf Kolzig, 1998 Washington (94.1% save percentage, 12-9, 2.9 SD)
Tim Thomas, 2011 Boston (94.0% save percentage, 16-9, 2.9 SD)
J-S Giguere, 2003 Anaheim (94.5% save percentage, 15-6, 2.9 SD)
Bernie Parent, 1968 Philadelphia (96.3% save percentage, 2-3, 2.7 SD)
Rogie Vachon, 1969 Montreal (95.3% save percentage, 7-1, 2.7 SD)

It's harder to get a high standard deviation metric playing in few games (stated differently, it's easier for an average goaltender to put up a seemingly-remarkable performance due to chance in a smaller number of games).

In terms of goals prevented beyond a replacement-level goaltender, the list is quite similar (but includes my all-time favorite):

Tim Thomas, 2011 Boston (37.1 goals prevented above replacement)
Patrick Roy, 1993 Montreal (34.0)
Olaf Kolzig, 1998 Washington (33.5)
J-S Giguere, 2003 Anaheim (32.2)
John Vanbiesbrouck, 1996 Florida (32.0)
Richard Brodeur, 1982 Vancouver (31.6)
Kirk McLean, 1994 Vancouver (30.8)
Martin Brodeur, 1995 New Jersey (28.9)
Bill Ranford, 1990 Edmonton (27.5)
Curtis Joseph, 1993 St. Louis (26.8)

It's even harder for a small sample performance to end up on this list, since it's weighted by time played (and that's probably appropriate, although it punishes goaltenders from the early era - on the other hand, it was easier to win in those days since you only had to win eight).

These only go back to the 1953 playoffs.

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03-26-2013, 05:02 PM
  #7
TheDevilMadeMe
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I don't know exactly what the stats say, but as losing efforts go, I'd say Kiprusoff's wasn't as good as Beezer's or Giguere's, but was on par with Kolzig's

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03-26-2013, 05:49 PM
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From what I remember of Kolzig's run, I would put it above Kipper's. I very briefly became a very big Kolzig fan in my impressionable youth due to his work in '98.

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Old
03-26-2013, 05:52 PM
  #9
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Behind every single cup run that actually won a cup.

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Old
03-26-2013, 06:46 PM
  #10
jumptheshark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
jarome carried a very average offense on his back and was unstoppable and clutch. Kipper stood on his head every game and had a ridiculous GAA.
if they would have won game 7--then it would have mattered--but since they didn't they join a very long list of players who carried teams to the cup but did not win

Pronger-Roloson for the next cup run

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Old
03-26-2013, 07:06 PM
  #11
Hammer Time
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Kiprusoff is the biggest out-of-nowhere story I've ever seen. Late draft pick, traded for a 2nd rounder to a team out of the playoff picture, then sets a modern-era GAA record to lead that team to the playoffs, then takes them to Game 7 of the Stanley Cup. How many rookies can claim their arrival turned a team's season around and almost got them a Cup?

As for the impressiveness of two players carrying a team to the finals, I prefer Bure/McLean but I'm clearly NOT biased.

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03-26-2013, 11:47 PM
  #12
Big Phil
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All-time? There are lots of goalies ahead of Kipper. You'd have to think, in almost any situation a goalie that wins a Cup plays at least as good as Kipper did. In most cases of course. I can think of Osgood in 1998 and Niemi in 2010 as years where I thought Kipper would have done better.

But as for losing goalies? Not as good as Hextall or Giguere for sure. Not as good as McLean either, and slightly below Beezer and Kolzig. Probably a lot similar to say, Osgood in 2009. Nice run in a losing cause, had potential for the Smythe, but likely would have lost it to his forward teammate.

As for Iginla, he carried that team on his back. Always seemed to be in the thick of things that spring. Scored a lot, and didn't stop in the final against Tampa either. His run would be a lot like Linden's in 1994. Or Zetterberg in 2009. Probably is the most similar in many ways to Modano in 2000. He was on the losing end, they both had a similar amount of points, both scored - or assisted - on huge goals that looked like it swung the momentum to the other team (Modano triple overtime winner in Game 5 of final, Iggy assists on Game 5 OT winner in finals). Both lost a tight series.

So both players did well that spring, but neither stood out even amongst their era, let alone all-time

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Old
03-27-2013, 12:11 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
From a pure save percentage standpoint, Kiprusoff's performance wasn't particularly notable (his 92.8% save percentage was 0.7 standard deviations above the field). Before anyone responds to that point, rest assured that I understand that it's not all about save percentage. It's a starting point for discussion.

Some notable ones better (actually, the top ten in terms of standard deviations above the mean for a particular playoff season):

Johnny Bower, 1963 Toronto (94.9% save percentage, 8-2, 3.2 standard deviations)
Patrick Roy, 1993 Montreal (92.9% save percentage, 16-4, 3.1 SD)
Martin Brodeur, 1995 New Jersey (93.2% save percentage, 16-4, 3.1 SD)
Curtis Joseph, 1993 St. Louis (93.8% save percentage, 7-4, 3.1 SD)
Richard Brodeur, 1982 Vancouver (91.7% save percentage, 11-6, 2.9 SD)
Olaf Kolzig, 1998 Washington (94.1% save percentage, 12-9, 2.9 SD)
Tim Thomas, 2011 Boston (94.0% save percentage, 16-9, 2.9 SD)
J-S Giguere, 2003 Anaheim (94.5% save percentage, 15-6, 2.9 SD)
Bernie Parent, 1976 Philadelphia (96.3% save percentage, 2-3, 2.7 SD)
Rogie Vachon, 1969 Montreal (95.3% save percentage, 7-1, 2.7 SD)

It's harder to get a high standard deviation metric playing in few games (stated differently, it's easier for an average goaltender to put up a seemingly-remarkable performance due to chance in a smaller number of games).

In terms of goals prevented beyond a replacement-level goaltender, the list is quite similar (but includes my all-time favorite):

Tim Thomas, 2011 Boston (37.1 goals prevented above replacement)
Patrick Roy, 1993 Montreal (34.0)
Olaf Kolzig, 1998 Washington (33.5)
J-S Giguere, 2003 Anaheim (32.2)
John Vanbiesbrouck, 1996 Florida (32.0)
Richard Brodeur, 1982 Vancouver (31.6)
Kirk McLean, 1994 Vancouver (30.8)
Martin Brodeur, 1995 New Jersey (28.9)
Bill Ranford, 1990 Edmonton (27.5)
Curtis Joseph, 1993 St. Louis (26.8)

It's even harder for a small sample performance to end up on this list, since it's weighted by time played (and that's probably appropriate, although it punishes goaltenders from the early era - on the other hand, it was easier to win in those days since you only had to win eight).

These only go back to the 1953 playoffs.
have either of these lists been updated recently enough to include Quick? I would assume that he qualifies on both seeing as how he set the playoff save% record for a Cup winner

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03-27-2013, 01:02 AM
  #14
Doctor No
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Remember that Quick's 2012 playoffs was in an era of inflated save percentages overall.

http://hockeygoalies.org/bio/quick.html

His 94.6% save percentage in 2012 equates to 2.3 standard deviations above average, and 23.0 goals better than replacement.

Still laudable, of course.

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Old
03-27-2013, 01:18 AM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taco MacArthur View Post
From a pure save percentage standpoint, Kiprusoff's performance wasn't particularly notable (his 92.8% save percentage was 0.7 standard deviations above the field). Before anyone responds to that point, rest assured that I understand that it's not all about save percentage. It's a starting point for discussion.

Some notable ones better (actually, the top ten in terms of standard deviations above the mean for a particular playoff season):

Johnny Bower, 1963 Toronto (94.9% save percentage, 8-2, 3.2 standard deviations)
Patrick Roy, 1993 Montreal (92.9% save percentage, 16-4, 3.1 SD)
Martin Brodeur, 1995 New Jersey (93.2% save percentage, 16-4, 3.1 SD)
Curtis Joseph, 1993 St. Louis (93.8% save percentage, 7-4, 3.1 SD)
Richard Brodeur, 1982 Vancouver (91.7% save percentage, 11-6, 2.9 SD)
Olaf Kolzig, 1998 Washington (94.1% save percentage, 12-9, 2.9 SD)
Tim Thomas, 2011 Boston (94.0% save percentage, 16-9, 2.9 SD)
J-S Giguere, 2003 Anaheim (94.5% save percentage, 15-6, 2.9 SD)
Bernie Parent, 1976 Philadelphia (96.3% save percentage, 2-3, 2.7 SD)
Rogie Vachon, 1969 Montreal (95.3% save percentage, 7-1, 2.7 SD)

It's harder to get a high standard deviation metric playing in few games (stated differently, it's easier for an average goaltender to put up a seemingly-remarkable performance due to chance in a smaller number of games).

In terms of goals prevented beyond a replacement-level goaltender, the list is quite similar (but includes my all-time favorite):

Tim Thomas, 2011 Boston (37.1 goals prevented above replacement)
Patrick Roy, 1993 Montreal (34.0)
Olaf Kolzig, 1998 Washington (33.5)
J-S Giguere, 2003 Anaheim (32.2)
John Vanbiesbrouck, 1996 Florida (32.0)
Richard Brodeur, 1982 Vancouver (31.6)
Kirk McLean, 1994 Vancouver (30.8)
Martin Brodeur, 1995 New Jersey (28.9)
Bill Ranford, 1990 Edmonton (27.5)
Curtis Joseph, 1993 St. Louis (26.8)

It's even harder for a small sample performance to end up on this list, since it's weighted by time played (and that's probably appropriate, although it punishes goaltenders from the early era - on the other hand, it was easier to win in those days since you only had to win eight).

These only go back to the 1953 playoffs.
It's notable to see both Canuck goalies, from worse teams, on the 2nd list but not Lou.

Pretty much seals his legacy IMO, rightly or wrongly.

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Old
03-27-2013, 10:00 AM
  #16
Doctor No
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Save percentage wise, Luongo wasn't even league-average in the 2011 postseason (although if you throw out his Boston series, he looks a lot better).

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Old
03-27-2013, 10:27 AM
  #17
tony d
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They were a really good team but as far as Stanley Cup runners up go they were in the middle.

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Old
03-28-2013, 03:34 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
jarome carried a very average offense on his back and was unstoppable and clutch. Kipper stood on his head every game and had a ridiculous GAA.
What? Iginla choked when it mattered for the Flames in the final 2 games of the SCF.

He was a - player had zero points and got what was it... 0 shots the final two games?

He has been a no show in the clutch for the Flames ever since.

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Old
03-30-2013, 10:11 AM
  #19
Merya
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Martin Gelinas was a major factor in those playoffs.
And if it weren't for bad reffing, Flames might've won the cup in six.

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