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M. Richards, J. Carter trade in retrospect

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Old
03-28-2013, 01:58 PM
  #276
Tripod
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Originally Posted by moosehead81 View Post
Doesn't change the fact that he ended up in LA with Richards. Basically, Columbus traded Courterier and Vorachek to Philly and, thru no fault of the Flyers, got Jack Johnson in return.
Simple question:
If you are the GM of Philly, would you trade Carter for #8 overall, Voracek and a 3rd? That answer is yes every time.

EDIT:And for those talking about the playoffs...Carter was the 6th in team points and then LA had Quick as well. He scored at a 53 point pace, wheras Brown and Kopitar were PPG. Much bigger impact.


Last edited by Tripod: 03-28-2013 at 02:05 PM.
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Old
03-28-2013, 02:04 PM
  #277
Gingeroux28
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All I got to say is it's a win-win-win-win-win situation.

Richards (LA) for B. Schenn and Simmonds (Philly)
Richie wins the Cup: win
Brayden is starting to come into his own: win
Wayne is a beast: win

Carter (Columbus) for Voracek and Couturier (Philly)
Carts started to play well that he became trade bait, leading to another trade: win
Jakey is a beast: win
Coots made an impact during his rookie year: win

Carter (LA) for Johnson (Columbus)
Carts wins the Cup (and reunited with Richie): win
JMFJ is an added piece to improve the Jackets: win

Bobrovsky (Columbus) for a draft pick
Bob is the reason the Jackets is contending for a playoff spot: win

JVR (Toronto) for L. Schenn (Philly)
JVR is in the top 5 in goals and the Leafs are in the top 8: win
Luke is reunited with his brother: win

Nash (NYR) for Dubinsky and Animisov (Columbus)
Nash is the one of the bright spots for the Rangers: win... if the Rangers make the playoffs
Artie is playing well for the Jackets: win
Dubi can fight Richie again like it's Rangers vs. Flyers: win

See... everybody wins! No need to bring back the trade!

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Old
03-28-2013, 02:08 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Yep. I mean, look how long it took us to get to the Conference finals after the last time we missed the play-offs!

...

Seriously though. We're not a million miles away from being good again. One defenseman, a new coach and another year's development for the kids and we're sorted. A winger for Giroux (Ryan) would be a quicker fix.
We need more than one defenseman. But the team is better than it looks right now.

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03-28-2013, 02:13 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by Tripod View Post
Simple question:
If you are the GM of Philly, would you trade Carter for #8 overall, Voracek and a 3rd? That answer is yes every time.
Not if your GM wants a better shot at winning now instead of rebuilding.

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03-28-2013, 02:18 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by Asheru View Post
Not if your GM wants a better shot at winning now instead of rebuilding.
You don't say...

Jeff Carter:
GP: 32
Points: 21
Goals: 18

Jake Voracek
GP: 32
Points: 34
Goals: 14

+Couturier

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Old
03-28-2013, 04:04 PM
  #281
Frolov 6'3
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I see Voracek has suddenly become the golden boy toy.

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03-28-2013, 04:17 PM
  #282
BrindamoursNose
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
I see Voracek has suddenly become the golden boy toy.
I'd rather have Voracek than Carter. Carter frustrated me as a Flyers fan so much.

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03-28-2013, 04:49 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
I'd rather have Voracek than Carter. Carter frustrated me as a Flyers fan so much.
If had I penny for everytime a Columbus or Flyers fan was calling out Jakub Voracek, I would challenge Bill Gates.

Now with a very good short cut season and 32 games under his belt, he's suddenly the player that will lead the franchise to the promised land.

I like the Flyers and thought they would still manage to reach the playoffs but with the tail between my legs I have to return to the Kings subforum because I ****ed up big time.

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03-28-2013, 04:56 PM
  #284
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Its only time until Voracek is traded.

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Old
03-28-2013, 04:56 PM
  #285
flyershockey
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
If had I penny for everytime a Columbus or Flyers fan was calling out Jakub Voracek, I would challenge Bill Gates.

Now with a very good short cut season and 32 games under his belt, he's suddenly the player that will lead the franchise to the promised land.

I like the Flyers and thought they would still manage to reach the playoffs but with the tail between my legs I have to return to the Kings subforum because I ****ed up big time.
Nobody said he was going to lead the Flyers to the promise land. He is a 23 year old that's breaking out and establishing himself as a first line player though. If the Flyers had any semblance of a transition game from their defense, his 5 on 5 offensive numbers would be better as well.

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Old
03-28-2013, 09:24 PM
  #286
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
You don't say...

Jeff Carter:
GP: 32
Points: 21
Goals: 18

Jake Voracek
GP: 32
Points: 34
Goals: 14

+Couturier
Except for the fact that Voracek is a -8 to Carter's even in plus/minus, and that includes 16 PP points vs 6.

Voracek's giving away as many goals as he is scoring. Doesn't win you many games thar way.

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03-28-2013, 09:29 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by skolgoar View Post
Except for the fact that Voracek is a -8 to Carter's even in plus/minus, and that includes 16 PP points vs 6.

Voracek's giving away as many goals as he is scoring. Doesn't win you many games thar way.
Do you know how +/- works? PP points don't count, therefore he's a +8. You also seem to insinuate that PP points are 'lesser' than normal ones. Maybe if Carter improved he would also have 16.

Voracek has taken the next step this season, he's unreal. Best player in the trade.

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03-28-2013, 09:29 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
I see Voracek has suddenly become the golden boy toy.
It's what happens when you're playing as well as he is.

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Old
03-28-2013, 09:36 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frolov 6'3 View Post
If had I penny for everytime a Columbus or Flyers fan was calling out Jakub Voracek, I would challenge Bill Gates.

Now with a very good short cut season and 32 games under his belt, he's suddenly the player that will lead the franchise to the promised land.

I like the Flyers and thought they would still manage to reach the playoffs but with the tail between my legs I have to return to the Kings subforum because I ****ed up big time.
Who was calling out Voracek last year? He had a good season, and this year has gone to another level.

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:45 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by HockeyThoughts View Post
Wasn't a HUGE fan of the trades then, and I'm still not.

Sure they got fair value for both Mike Richards and Jeff Carter but those trades:

1.) Exposed how classless of an organization the Philadelphia Flyers really were. Now I'm not one to use that term very liberally, but what kind of team signs two players on lifetime contracts at a discount rate, and then turns around and trades them away -- one of those players to a perennial bottom feeder at that.

2.) Set them back several years. Sure the pieces they got back (mostly Wayne Simmonds and Jakub Voráček) have been productive offensively but one must remember that both Richards and Carter were bred in the Philadelphia Flyers system and knew it inside out and their former captain, Richards in particular was the embodiment of prototypical "Flyers hockey." Furthermore, they are significantly better two-way players who would contribute vastly to a team lacking in team defensive structure.

The Philadelphia Flyers had just made Game 6 of the Stanley Cup Finals one season earlier, and after one 2nd round defeat you decide to blow up the core of your team and move in an entirely different direction? Sounds pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
They did not get discounts. They were fully paid

I think it looks good on the Flyers org. They didn't like what was going
on and they didn't put up with it

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03-28-2013, 10:46 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by skolgoar View Post
Except for the fact that Voracek is a -8 to Carter's even in plus/minus, and that includes 16 PP points vs 6.

Voracek's giving away as many goals as he is scoring. Doesn't win you many games thar way.
Carter is one dimensional. He has 3 assists

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03-28-2013, 11:15 PM
  #292
skolgoar
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Do you know how +/- works? PP points don't count, therefore he's a +8. You also seem to insinuate that PP points are 'lesser' than normal ones. Maybe if Carter improved he would also have 16.

Voracek has taken the next step this season, he's unreal. Best player in the trade.
Yeah, I wasn't thinking and calculated it backwards. Still, he's playing on a losing team ...

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Old
03-29-2013, 01:26 PM
  #293
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Carter is one dimensional. He has 3 assists
Well when it's your role to score goals..

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03-29-2013, 02:16 PM
  #294
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Originally Posted by Goldrunner View Post
Carter is one dimensional. He has 3 assists
The Kings had been missing out on that one dimension for a long time. It's not a coincidence that the Kings are an infinitely better team than they were pre-Carter.

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03-29-2013, 03:34 PM
  #295
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
Do you know how +/- works? PP points don't count, therefore he's a +8. You also seem to insinuate that PP points are 'lesser' than normal ones. Maybe if Carter improved he would also have 16.

Voracek has taken the next step this season, he's unreal. Best player in the trade.
How many faceoffs does Vora take? How much does he play on the pk? Carter does both. Whenever his line is on the ice and they need a righty to take the faceoff he plays centre and Richards moves to wing. And Carter plays the PP like vora does. I don't think Vora is the best player in the trade, maybe someday he will be but right now it's in Carter's favour.

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03-29-2013, 04:01 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by MsWoof View Post
How many faceoffs does Vora take? How much does he play on the pk? Carter does both. Whenever his line is on the ice and they need a righty to take the faceoff he plays centre and Richards moves to wing. And Carter plays the PP like vora does. I don't think Vora is the best player in the trade, maybe someday he will be but right now it's in Carter's favour.
Didn't you hear? Having a good 30 game stretch makes you a better player than a consistent 30 goal scorer

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03-29-2013, 04:13 PM
  #297
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They did not get discounts. They were fully paid

I think it looks good on the Flyers org. They didn't like what was going
on and they didn't put up with it
Ryan Getzlaf and Corey Perry make 8.25M+ per year. Mike Richards makes 5.75 while Jeff Carter 5.2M.. That's a pretty huge discrepancy.

Both players would have made significantly more on the open market.

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Old
03-29-2013, 04:16 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
You don't say...

Jeff Carter:
GP: 32
Points: 21
Goals: 18

Jake Voracek
GP: 32
Points: 34
Goals: 14

+Couturier
Look at the standings.

Its a lot easier for a player to put up numbers when the team plays shinny. Put voracek on the kings where they backcheck and play a disciplined system. Cut voraceks numbers by 50-60%

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03-29-2013, 04:27 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Hitman47 View Post
Look at the standings.

Its a lot easier for a player to put up numbers when the team plays shinny. Put voracek on the kings where they backcheck and play a disciplined system. Cut voraceks numbers by 50-60%
You have no proof of that statement. It's not like the Flyers have much offense going on right now anyways.

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03-29-2013, 04:33 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by PHI Flyers10 View Post
You have no proof of that statement. It's not like the Flyers have much offense going on right now anyways.
When a team is at the bottom of the standings, that's a good indication that they're not playing a disciplined game, ie...turnovers, no defense, etc. In that kind of system, players are more likely to get more points, goalies are more likely to have deflated stats, the same with d men.

It happens with every crappy team. Not just you guys.

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