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Time To Fire Newell Brown?: A Tale of Two Seasons

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03-31-2013, 03:02 AM
  #1
WinterEmpire
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Time To Fire Newell Brown?: A Tale of Two Seasons

Let me preface this by saying that the PP is not the end all and be all of why the Canucks have been struggling for the most part this year. But the following numbers should help solidify the idea that the PP might be the biggest reason why.

Canucks in 10-11(1st overall PP):
72 PP Goals/296 opp,28%
258 total Goals/82 Games
0.878 Goals per Game from PP
3.15 Goals per Game
2.20 Goals Against

If the PP was scoring at a 12-13 pace, there would be 2.45 goals per game

Canucks in 12-13(Currently 30th overall PP):
16 PP Goals/125 opp,12.8%
88 total Goals/35 Games
0.181 Goals per Game from PP
2.51 Goals per Game
2.43 Goals Against

If the PP was scoring at a 10-11 pace, there would be 3.21 goals per game

Now the question is, where does the fault lie for this bad PP? Personal or Coaching? Between 10-11 and now the biggest player differences are the loss of Ehrhoff and the injury of Kesler.

Kesler being injured might be a valid reason for the struggles, in the games that he was back the PP clearly started to show more signs of life than it had in while. We'll have to see if it gets better again once he returns. However I refuse to believe that Ehrhoff provided anything more significant than the other PP QBs used by the Canucks. Without him last year the Canucks still finished 4th best, and Garrison is no worse than the man who he replaced(Salo), in terms of shot accuracy and power. Not to mention the Sabres sharp PP% decline since Ehrhoff arrival. He isn't just some magic solution.

When I look at the Canucks PP system what I see is a group of players who are told to play the puck around the perimeter and take low percentage shots from the the outside, often through multiple bodies after they've had time to establish position. Rarely do you see them try and confuse the opponents with quick passing and dynamic off-the-puck player movement to set-up high percentage opportunities in the slot like what I've observed in some of the better PP teams this year(St. Louis for example). I've heard various analysts frequently mention that special teams are some of the most coach influenced parts of hockey. If so, what does that make Newell Brown?

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03-31-2013, 03:08 AM
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kevinsane
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If AV is dismissed, no way are Brown and Bowness retained, but I don't see AV staying and either of the other two being replaced. The optics would be bad, and it would look like scapegoating.
Ultimately, the Head Coach is held responsible for all facets of how the team plays, and rightly so.

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03-31-2013, 03:21 AM
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struckmatch
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Our PowerPlay a joke. It's honestly shocking to me how this team can have such terrible special teams FOR SO LONG without heads rolling.

The poster above is correct, Vigneault takes the blame here, he can't scapegoat his assistants. At the end of the day, he has the final say and makes the call.

Our PowerPlay has been literally god awful for over a full calendar year. Over a freaking year with NOTHING done about it.

We're still using the same ridiculous entries into the zone, the dumbass drop pass, we're stagnant, bad puck movement, poor shot selection or no shots at all, nothing through from the point or 5 feet wide and when we get a chance...what happens? Oh right, the Sedins PASS instead of shooting.

It's appallingly bad and I'm just WAITING for people to come in this thread and spin this as to how Vigneault is innocent in all of this or that this is an overreaction.

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03-31-2013, 03:26 AM
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Derp Kassian
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If AV and Bowness are a package deal then Brown would easily be the most replaceable on the staff. Don't see why this move hasn't been made yet.


Last edited by Derp Kassian: 03-31-2013 at 03:33 AM.
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03-31-2013, 03:28 AM
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Fat Tony
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
The optics would be bad, and it would look like scapegoating.
Not that I think that AV should be retained but it can be done. Chicago fired their asst. coach last off-season.

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03-31-2013, 03:37 AM
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To add some deep, intelligent discussion...


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03-31-2013, 03:39 AM
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BrandonL
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It's been pretty obvious for a long time now that the book is out on Newell Brown and the Canucks PP. The most infuriating part is that no real changes have been made, same personal running the same system. The Canucks should have fired Newell Brown last year after the PP disappeared in yet another playoff series.

Best hope at this point is that the Canucks acquire a legitimate sniper who can play the high slot. This would work well with Kesler returning, as he is better suited to play in front of the net on the PP. Realistically, who could the Canucks acquire at the trade deadline that would help? Maybe someone like Gaborik or Jagr, but the odds of Gillis making a deal like that are worse than me getting a date from Selena Gomez.

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03-31-2013, 03:50 AM
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I'll just compare it to when we were succeeding. We lost Kesler (temporarily), Ehrhoff, and Salo. To me, these were the guys I look to during the powerplay and they usually do well on it. Bieksa is no Ehrhoff. Garrison is WAY worse than Salo in terms of his shot. Samuelsson wasn't bad either. Booth and Edler have both been struggling all season. Okay, I'll say it: we're missing a playmaker in Cody Hodgson.

In comparing with other teams, I feel like we're lacking a sense of urgency. You watch the Sedins and they'll just casually pass it around the outside. No one really tries to get into open lanes or get the opponents to move. They just pass it to Garrison and hope he scores or takes someone out with it.


Last edited by Squall: 03-31-2013 at 03:51 AM. Reason: typo
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Old
03-31-2013, 04:30 AM
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The powerplay starts with the players. But it's quite obvious it's not working, so our coach has to do something about it. Sadly, he's not so yes, he should be on a very tight leash. Too bad our management doesn't do crap about it and just thinks that we need to add players to have success instead of looking at our coaching staff first and foremost.


If Bylsma could lead a Pens team halfway through the season without Crosby and still make the playoffs as a top seed, I'm sure any other coach other than AV can do the same here and take the Canucks to a new level isntead of the status quo

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03-31-2013, 05:15 AM
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vanuck
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Might Guy Boucher be a good candidate to run the PP?

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Old
03-31-2013, 06:36 AM
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Jack Tripper
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its not that the pp is bad, its dead last in the nhl...worse than florida, colorado, calgary, and a bunch of other doormats that would love to have the personnel that the canucks employ

perhaps my biggest pet peeve is blaming the kesler injury...the pp struggles started while he was healthy last season, and if the pp relies so heavily on him that his absence makes it function at 6% then theres a major coaching issue that necessitates a change

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03-31-2013, 08:49 AM
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Bougieman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Tripper View Post
perhaps my biggest pet peeve is blaming the kesler injury...the pp struggles started while he was healthy last season, and if the pp relies so heavily on him that his absence makes it function at 6% then theres a major coaching issue that necessitates a change
That's actually starting to really bother me too. Nearly ALL of this teams woes are being explained away by a lot of people by the Kesler injury.

He's not GOD, people -- and this team isn't going to be much different once he returns. There is a going to a rude awakening for a lot of people once Kesler comes back and all of these problems persist.

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03-31-2013, 09:51 AM
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archangel archangel
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I thought we have lost just once in 8 games? OR am I watching another team called the Vancouver Canucks in another universe

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03-31-2013, 09:55 AM
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Fire Brown absolutely. Sure I don't expect us to win a PT with the injuries we've had. But to have our Power Play as worst in the league? That's absurd. Brown should be fired. AV we should absolutely keep until the end of the season, our record so far is still that of a solid playoff team, despite having no power play and a semi-AHL calibre lineup for much of the season.

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03-31-2013, 10:17 AM
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How has he lasted this long? He should write a book on surefire ways to keep a job.

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03-31-2013, 10:21 AM
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How has he lasted this long? He should write a book on surefire ways to keep a job.
'Cause he kind of looks like Robert Blake from Lost Highway. He probably has a video of Gillis.

When his adjustments to his adjustments are failing just as bad as the original plan, you know there's something wrong and it can't be personnel.

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03-31-2013, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinsane View Post
If AV is dismissed, no way are Brown and Bowness retained, but I don't see AV staying and either of the other two being replaced. The optics would be bad, and it would look like scapegoating.
Ultimately, the Head Coach is held responsible for all facets of how the team plays, and rightly so.
AV never hired Newell Brown.

Brown is the only guy who came on board by Gillis.

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03-31-2013, 11:24 AM
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We all remember that our powerplay was mediocre until Brown was hired, yes? And we all remember that Brown introduced his Anaheim PP scheme and put Kesler on the first unit, right? That's when our PP became good. We all remember this, right?

And now Kesler isn't playing... and our powerplay... isn't good.... wait. It's almost like those two things are related. I think our PP is bad because it's missing Ryan Kesler, and Ryan Kesler's unique skillset is what made our PP elite in the first place. When Kesler returns to the lineup I strongly suspect our PP shots will increase, and eventually our PP goals will increase.

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03-31-2013, 11:41 AM
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Samzilla
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Burrows View Post
We all remember that our powerplay was mediocre until Brown was hired, yes? And we all remember that Brown introduced his Anaheim PP scheme and put Kesler on the first unit, right? That's when our PP became good. We all remember this, right?

And now Kesler isn't playing... and our powerplay... isn't good.... wait. It's almost like those two things are related. I think our PP is bad because it's missing Ryan Kesler, and Ryan Kesler's unique skillset is what made our PP elite in the first place. When Kesler returns to the lineup I strongly suspect our PP shots will increase, and eventually our PP goals will increase.
If our PP hinges so much on one person, that's ridiculously negligent. Guess what, there's 29 other teams in the league without a Kesler that manage to do better than we are. If they can have success without Kes, then we should be able to as well.

If Brown wants to tailor the PP for Kesler when he's in the line-up, that's fine. But if he can't figure out a plan B for when he's not, then I have no idea how he has a job in the NHL.

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Old
03-31-2013, 11:45 AM
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If our PP hinges so much on one person, that's ridiculously negligent. Guess what, there's 29 other teams in the league without a Kesler that manage to do better than we are. If they can have success without Kes, then we should be able to as well.

If Brown wants to tailor the PP for Kesler when he's in the line-up, that's fine. But if he can't figure out a plan B for when he's not, then I have no idea how he has a job in the NHL.
Big.Time.This.^

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03-31-2013, 11:48 AM
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Our PP used to be bad, but it was never the worst in the league or even bottom 10.

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03-31-2013, 12:08 PM
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I thought we have lost just once in 8 games? OR am I watching another team called the Vancouver Canucks in another universe
I thought our PP was dead last or am i misreading that to?

Would love to find out what the actual PP results are since that boston game last year up until now. Its going to be scary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Burrows View Post
We all remember that our powerplay was mediocre until Brown was hired, yes? And we all remember that Brown introduced his Anaheim PP scheme and put Kesler on the first unit, right? That's when our PP became good. We all remember this, right?

And now Kesler isn't playing... and our powerplay... isn't good.... wait. It's almost like those two things are related. I think our PP is bad because it's missing Ryan Kesler, and Ryan Kesler's unique skillset is what made our PP elite in the first place. When Kesler returns to the lineup I strongly suspect our PP shots will increase, and eventually our PP goals will increase.
I do agree kesler is a way bigger part of our PP success then people give him credit for on here, but it was bad last year after boston even with kesler. And you cant rely just on one guy when we have people as talented as the sedins and edler on our first PP unit.

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Old
03-31-2013, 12:12 PM
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EpochLink
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Our sad sack dead last PP.

Newel Brown is employed for reasons unknown. He's probably dusting up his 2009 PP playbook.

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03-31-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Fire Brown absolutely. Sure I don't expect us to win a PT with the injuries we've had. But to have our Power Play as worst in the league? That's absurd. Brown should be fired. AV we should absolutely keep until the end of the season, our record so far is still that of a solid playoff team, despite having no power play and a semi-AHL calibre lineup for much of the season.
Granted, there is only approximately ten or so games left, but it is being difficult to even give AV that much time. I am so tired of watching a team that is beyond boring and content to grind out lifeless wins or get utterly eradicated. I think "I could be watching Chicago's dominate start, Pittsburgh's dominate finish or Toronto resurgence" and it just depresses me. Kesler or not, this team has far too much talent to be playing so poorly and that is all on AV.

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03-31-2013, 12:30 PM
  #25
Barney Gumble
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Originally Posted by Hollywood Burrows View Post
We all remember that our powerplay was mediocre until Brown was hired, yes?
That's how I *thought* I remembered it....

Newell Brown - hired as assistant coach of the Vancouver Canucks in August 2010.

Canucks power play ranking for the 2009-10 season? 6th best in the league.

Clearly he helped - but evidently, we (I'm included myself) thought he did more than he actually did....

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