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Pavel Bure Retired Jersey?

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04-05-2013, 02:20 AM
  #1
WestleySnipez
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Pavel Bure Retired Jersey?

What's your take on this? I don't really think he is really worthy, yes he was an amazing goal scorer for us, absolutely fantastic, but he isn't the icon that Naslund, Linden, or Smyl are/were. He was apparently talking to Aquillini about this.



Last edited by WestleySnipez: 04-05-2013 at 02:38 AM. Reason: Fixed imbedding issue
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04-05-2013, 02:26 AM
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How dare you?

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04-05-2013, 02:26 AM
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Derp Kassian
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Isn't an Icon? Ummmmm..... First exciting/great goal scorer the team had. People paid to go watch him night in and night out. Rogers Arena is the "house that Pavel built" and he's a HHOF. Literally the only thing stopping him from being up in the rafters is his departure which was ugly but time heals all wounds.

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04-05-2013, 02:27 AM
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04-05-2013, 02:27 AM
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Best player to play for this franchise.

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04-05-2013, 02:28 AM
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WestleySnipez... your account has been retired.

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04-05-2013, 02:32 AM
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Personally I think he should be retired. Why?

Reason:

1. Was Drafted By the Canucks
2. Played Majority of Career with the Canucks, With a Stanley Cup Appearance to boot, consecutive 50-60 goal seasons with the Canucks.
3. Hall of Famer.

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04-05-2013, 02:33 AM
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WestleySnipez
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Looks like I'll be eating my own words for the next week.

I thought everyone was still mad about the whole "I want out" thing, I still kind of am, he could of finished his career here in Van, but went out in an ugly way. I honestly am not trolling, I just don't think he was what Naslund/Linden/Smyl meant to this franchise. An amazingly talented forward, one of the best there have been, but in my opinion, not retired jersey-worthy.


Last edited by WestleySnipez: 04-05-2013 at 02:33 AM. Reason: Added more detail
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04-05-2013, 02:38 AM
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Karter
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WestleySnipez, you've been bought out. Time to take your talents to Alberta or something.

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04-05-2013, 02:41 AM
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fixed YT

definitely retire his jersey

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04-05-2013, 02:46 AM
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I think for people in my age range he is the most iconic player in franchise history. When I think of defining moments in Canucks history, Bure has some of the most notable. Not to mention, he's easily the most talented scorer in Canucks history.

I personally find it ridiculous that someone like Naslund has their jersey retired while Bure doesn't.

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04-05-2013, 02:49 AM
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Nevermind

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04-05-2013, 02:50 AM
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WestleySnipez
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Originally Posted by Karter View Post
WestleySnipez, you've been bought out. Time to take your talents to Alberta or something.
What am I Loungo?

I don't think he deserves it, but if the majority of fans do, then go for it!

I'll set the record straight: I don't hate Bure, I just think the way he left tarnished his image, and for the way it ended between the team and him, he shouldn't get a Banner.

If his jersey is retired, Great! Good for him, he was really one of the most explosive forwards in the league. Maybe in a few years I'll come around and "forgive" him for leaving and respect is banner hanging beside the three former captains

If his jersey isn't... meh. Like I said, right now I don't think he doesn't deserve it.


THANKS live playoff hockey I don't know why it's saying error....


Last edited by WestleySnipez: 04-05-2013 at 02:51 AM. Reason: Thanking live playoff hockey for reembedding a video
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04-05-2013, 02:55 AM
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If not for Bure, there's a very real chance i might've ended up a lifelong Oilers or Leafs fan or something.

For saving me from that awful fate alone, retire the man's jersey already!

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04-05-2013, 03:02 AM
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OP Give me 2 good reasons why #19 should be up in the rafters over #10. I'm not sure if you were a fan when he played but I can only assume you weren't based on your comments.

Anyways....

About f'ing time. #10 up there with #16 like it should be SOON!!!

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04-05-2013, 03:10 AM
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Christina Woloski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestleySnipez View Post
What's your take on this? I don't really think he is really worthy, yes he was an amazing goal scorer for us, absolutely fantastic, but he isn't the icon that Naslund, Linden, or Smyl are/were. He was apparently talking to Aquillini about this.



Yes he was. I am a fan solely because of Bure. He should have been treated better and should have stayed in Vancouver, but that doesn't diminish how insane he was for Vancouver when he was here.

I'm okay with retiring the jersey of the most electric player Vancouver has ever seen.

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04-05-2013, 03:10 AM
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WestleySnipez
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No, I became a fan in 00-01 when the 'Nucks were just starting to get the West Coast Express going, but w/e I was young (7) and in love with hockey.

I know I maybe young, but I loved watching the highlights of Bure when I was 12/13. I researched him heavily for a school project at 14. And it was a huge letdown for me when I saw the video clips of him saying he wanted to leave; the media coverage of it all exaggerates it, but not a lot. Many fans were pissed, and I'm still mad at him for leaving. I may have been a fan after his time in Vancouver, but he was successful here, and because the team as a whole didn't do well, he wanted to be moved isn't a good enough reason for. I don't think the same of him now as I did when I was 11-13.

That's why I don't think Bure should have his jersey retired, I think that's a pretty fair reason.

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04-05-2013, 03:38 AM
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parabola
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It sucks the whole thing with Bure wanting out happened. But if you read all the dumb **** he had to put up with it's understandable. I don't blame him at all. Our ownership allowed some stupid **** to happen back then.

Quote:
Bure arrived in LA waiting to meet with the Canucks who left him sitting for weeks.
Bure was asked to pay $50,000 of his salary towards buying him out of his Russian contract
After winning the Calder Trophy as Rookie of the Year, the Canucks felt he needed to prove his value more before signing a new contract.
After agreeing to a contract of similar value to Sergei Fedorov and Alexander Mogilny, the Canucks pulled the rug out from under Bure by making the numbers in Canadian dollars instead of American dollars, a very uncommon practice.
Canucks refused to pay a signing bonus they owed him.
Broken promises about moving Pavel, and a handful of other instances destroying trust.
It's a no brainer. Now that everything with the prior ownership is behind us, we can finally retire his number. And you can tell he was genuinely moved by the reaction he got today. There is no ill-will of the fans, I would guess there never was. If he is okay with his jersey being retired now, it's time to do it.

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04-05-2013, 03:57 AM
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JetsAlternate
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Originally Posted by WestleySnipez View Post
No, I became a fan in 00-01 when the 'Nucks were just starting to get the West Coast Express going, but w/e I was young (7) and in love with hockey.

I know I maybe young, but I loved watching the highlights of Bure when I was 12/13. I researched him heavily for a school project at 14. And it was a huge letdown for me when I saw the video clips of him saying he wanted to leave; the media coverage of it all exaggerates it, but not a lot. Many fans were pissed, and I'm still mad at him for leaving. I may have been a fan after his time in Vancouver, but he was successful here, and because the team as a whole didn't do well, he wanted to be moved isn't a good enough reason for. I don't think the same of him now as I did when I was 11-13.

That's why I don't think Bure should have his jersey retired, I think that's a pretty fair reason.
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1395793

There's a large thread in the main section detailing why he wanted to leave. In short, he was manipulated by the organization, cheated out of his trust and confidence in management. From the very beginning, he had to pay a large sum of his own money to arrive in Vancouver; the team would not sign him until he paid $50,000 of the transfer fees from Russia. He remained in LA for two weeks without any contact from the Canucks before they contacted him about flying to Vancouver; they cited they were unsure they wanted to sign him that season. He had to stay at his agent's house during those two weeks. He was left not knowing when, if at all, he would be contacted by the team.

When they signed his initial contract, the team signed him at a price substantially below his actual value, citing he had to prove he was worth anything higher. Before his next contract, he and the team battled 17 months before agreeing to anything. At that point, Pavel requested for a trade in November 1993. The team refused to trade him. Meanwhile, he was scoring 60 goals in back-to-back seasons and experiencing success like no other Canuck had before him. He was one of the faces of the league at this time.

The organization had throughout the negotations, meanwhile, attempted to sign him to another lowball contract, then when negotiations became difficult, the team spread rumors that he wanted to hold out of the 1994 Stanley Cup Finals due to contract negotiation issues -- Pavel never did this. They allegedly planted the story via the media in order to slander him when negotiations became difficult, then did little to deny it, thus allowing the rumor to linger despite its falsehood.

When he and the team finally reached an agreement on a deal, they tried to sign him in Canadian dollars rather than in what all other players received -- US dollars. At the time, the Canadian dollar was substantially lower than the US dollar in value, meaning they tried to trick him into signing at a price well below what he had verbally agreed to. After the negotiations, Pavel tried to shake hands with Quinn and move on; Quinn would not shake his hand.

The contract he signed in 1994 had an agreement that, in the event of a lockout (1994-95 lockout), he would still receive a salary. This was agreed to on both sides. They were supposed to pay him a signing bonus when the contract was signed, but delayed that payment for three months. They then refused to pay any of the money he was owed that year; he bitterly fought for three years to have that money paid, and was not paid even a portion of the amount owed to him until the 1997-98 season -- and in the end, he only received $1 million of the $1.7 million he was owed. Bure had to file arbitration with the help of his new agent, Mike Gillis, to have his owed amount acknowledged.

Throughout his time with the team, the organization never backed him up on anything. When he finally decided enough was enough and asked for a trade in 1998, he held out in order to ensure the team would move him. The organization then turned the media and the fans against Pavel and vilified him for not wanting to play for the team. Thus, when Pavel left, he was undeservedly hated for holding out and leaving. He had every reason to want to leave, and nobody should dislike him for it. Pavel always put the fans first, and when he was on the ice that was all that mattered. Unfortunately, the off-ice debacle around him made it an unbearable situation to be here. The organization chased him out of here, and as we have seen recently, they are the ones who must approach him and begin the healing process with him.

From the time he arrived here, his effect on the franchise was incredible. He transformed this market into what it is today; the on-ice product had been abysmal for years, and Pavel changed the market with his exhilarating play; expectations became different, the way fans cheered for the team became different. He put this team on the map and grew the fanbase on an exponential scale. Pavel transformed a middling NHL market into a true hockey market and brought out the hockey fan in everyone. When he was here, he was a rock star. Fans clamored everywhere he went, and at times it was even overwhelming. There were songs about him, bags of fanmail were sent every week to him personally, and fans cheered as much for him as they cheered for the team. In fact, there were many Bure fans who later became Canucks fans. That was his effect -- he introduced fans to the game with his style and turned the city upside-down.

When fans flocked to the arena, it was often to see him. He was the face of the team marketed to the rest of the NHL -- the most exciting player in the league. He led the team with his play, and was one of the heroes of the 1994 Stanley Cup run. Without him and his effect on the product and the fanbase, the team might not have survived the scare of relocation. Pavel was adored in a way different than any other player has been appreciated in Vancouver before or since. You suggested he was not an icon: I'll argue he was the most important icon this team has ever had.


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04-05-2013, 04:27 AM
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WestleySnipez
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Honestly, before I saw these posts, I had no idea of the dirtiness of the Canucks, let alone Pat Quinn. I guess I was never fortunate to come across it while I researched it seven years ago.

It's funny, all the 'Nucks history books never mention that negotiation crap the Canucks tried to pull with their players...

I take back what I said then, if it is true that Bure honestly wanted to sign and play here, and got screwed around, then he did the right thing. Sorry to all the Bure fans out there, I was wrong, you were right.

There is no doubt in my mind that he was a fantastic player, I've always thought that, but I admit my mind was twisted a little bit all these years by the media/former organization.

I can still say I'm a little mad, it can't go all away in one night... but most of it is gone.

I have more reason to believe actual fans than the media looking for a story.

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04-05-2013, 04:32 AM
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Evil Edler
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n/m read further and had my questions answered.

His Jersey should of been retired before Naslunds and I loved Markus.

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04-05-2013, 04:34 AM
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JetsAlternate
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Originally Posted by WestleySnipez View Post
Honestly, before I saw these posts, I had no idea of the dirtiness of the Canucks, let alone Pat Quinn. I guess I was never fortunate to come across it while I researched it seven years ago.

It's funny, all the 'Nucks history books never mention that negotiation crap the Canucks tried to pull with their players...

I take back what I said then, if it is true that Bure honestly wanted to sign and play here, and got screwed around, then he did the right thing. Sorry to all the Bure fans out there, I was wrong, you were right.

There is no doubt in my mind that he was a fantastic player, I've always thought that, but I admit my mind was twisted a little bit all these years by the media/former organization.

I can still say I'm a little mad, it can't go all away in one night... but most of it is gone.

I have more reason to believe actual fans than the media looking for a story.
Well, there are media people on both sides. There are those who wanted to slander Bure, and those who wanted to help him make his story available. Much of what was discussed above was released after he left the team, and has been backed up by various different sources. Nobody has ever denied any of it, and those who have been challenged to deny it such as Brian Burke have stepped around it. In the end, the team did incredible harm to their relationship with Pavel, and his desire to leave the team and move on was more than justified.

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04-05-2013, 04:45 AM
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WestleySnipez
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Btw, I never said Bure wasn't an icon, he definitely was, I said he isn't the icon Naslund, Linden, or Smyl are/were.

Thinking back on that though, I have to say, again I was wrong. Rewatching the amazing highlights(still jaw-dropping), made me realize, Bure was more of an icon than Naslund, maybe Smyl, but I think it's fair Linden meant more to the franchise, and personally, to me.(I guess cause he did play during the time I watched Canuck games).

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04-05-2013, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestleySnipez View Post
Btw, I never said Bure wasn't an icon, he definitely was, I said he isn't the icon Naslund, Linden, or Smyl are/were.

Thinking back on that though, I have to say, again I was wrong. Rewatching the amazing highlights(still jaw-dropping), made me realize, Bure was more of an icon than Naslund, maybe Smyl, but I think it's fair Linden meant more to the franchise, and personally, to me.(I guess cause he did play during the time I watched Canuck games).
Perhaps Linden only meant so much to you because of the crap Bure suffered, maybe if none of that happened and he played his entire career here you'd think different.


If you think of it like that it really shows how disgustingly vile the entire debacle was.

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04-05-2013, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by WestleySnipez View Post
What's your take on this? I don't really think he is really worthy, yes he was an amazing goal scorer for us, absolutely fantastic, but he isn't the icon that Naslund, Linden, or Smyl are/were. He was apparently talking to Aquillini about this.

lol @ naslund being an icon. bure got more of an ovation while sitting in the owners suite than naslund got during his retirement ceremony.

rogers arena is the house bure built.

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