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Old
04-01-2013, 09:21 PM
  #601
tantalum
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
He didn't do well but I don't think he is quite as bad as people think.

a. Iginla forced the Pengs trade onto Calgary, Boston was better but Iginla made them take the crap Pengs return

b. Jbo is $6.7m. He's still $6.7m next year. That is $6.7m the Blues have to deal with, that is $6.7m the blues don't have to spend on UFAs/trades. Ask yourself what other deadline buyers need JBO and have $6.7m free next year under a $64m cap?

Only way JBO gets a great return is if Flames ownership eat part of his salary. They probably didn't want to.
But at the deadline next year a team doesn't need $6.7 m in space...they need about a quarter of that (or be at the cap with enough salary on the IR). They get better value from Bouwmeester next year and unless the offer blows you away i don't think you move him now. Of course Feaster is already selling this as "now we have the two best goaltenders outside the NHL!!" They only thing he's setting up is to also get rid of Kiprusoff for nothing...though to be fair I don't think he's worth that much given his play the last two year.

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04-01-2013, 09:21 PM
  #602
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Maybe...
Maybe not.

JBo was supposed to make the Flames stronger...
Yet the Flames never made it back to the playoffs in his tenure.
He may be the anti-good luck charm.

Bouwmeester is very strong defensively. The team is one thing, the player is another. I'd have no qualms with him on a top pairing here.

Yes, his teams have missed the playoffs. I get that. But this guy does his job as a defensive Dman.

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:23 PM
  #603
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Meanwhile, on to intentional humour in the hockey world:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post62967661

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04-01-2013, 09:26 PM
  #604
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Answer to 'b' is DET.

Bouwmeester is very underrated. He regularly posts a >1.0 Corsi Rel QoC. Touch competition and does pretty well. Despite being "soft".

Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo is a great top pairing to have. STL will be factor for a long time if they can retain such a combo.
Doesn't feel like a Holland move to me. Certainly not a big market with Detroit and STL. Even Detroit would have to walkaway/move/buyout guys to comfortably fit him in. They have a few guys to resign ( UFAs: Howard, Brunner, Filppula, RFAs like Smith)

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04-01-2013, 09:26 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Bouwmeester is very strong defensively. The team is one thing, the player is another. I'd have no qualms with him on a top pairing here.

Yes, his teams have missed the playoffs. I get that. But this guy does his job as a defensive Dman.
He does his job as a $4 mill type guy. I don't think he does the job as a $7 million guy. They have some big contracts to give out this offseason (Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Stewart, Berglund). Steen the year after.

I think this move could costs them Shattenkirk or someone significant upfront. So I'm really not that convinced this truly improves the Blues organization.

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:28 PM
  #606
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LOL Kipper does not want to leave Calgary. 3 goals on 6 shots. Edmonton is running on some crazy scoring % the last few games.

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04-01-2013, 09:30 PM
  #607
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I see no difference between Bouwmeester and Tanev.

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:31 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
But at the deadline next year a team doesn't need $6.7 m in space...they need about a quarter of that (or be at the cap with enough salary on the IR). They get better value from Bouwmeester next year and unless the offer blows you away i don't think you move him now. Of course Feaster is already selling this as "now we have the two best goaltenders outside the NHL!!" They only thing he's setting up is to also get rid of Kiprusoff for nothing...though to be fair I don't think he's worth that much given his play the last two year.
I won't argue with that. He'd be worth more next year. Maybe ownership doesn't want to pay him $7m while the team loses.


Last edited by me2: 04-01-2013 at 09:37 PM.
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Old
04-01-2013, 09:32 PM
  #609
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flames should have kept Jaybo maybe build around him......they need someone experience and provide leadership to young players

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04-01-2013, 09:33 PM
  #610
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
Meanwhile, on to intentional humour in the hockey world:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1#post62967661
Ouch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
He does his job as a $4 mill type guy. I don't think he does the job as a $7 million guy. They have some big contracts to give out this offseason (Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Stewart, Berglund). Steen the year after.

I think this move could costs them Shattenkirk or someone significant upfront. So I'm really not that convinced this truly improves the Blues organization.
Yeah, how many of their RFA's will it cost them?

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:36 PM
  #611
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
Ouch!



Yeah, how many of their RFA's will it cost them?
Zero,they won't let the D they have walk and wouldn't make a move at the cost of the core. Armstrong is a great GM.

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04-01-2013, 09:37 PM
  #612
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Zero,they won't let the D they have walk and wouldn't make a move at the cost of the core. Armstrong is a great GM.
And their forwards?

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:39 PM
  #613
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Bouwmeester is very strong defensively. The team is one thing, the player is another. I'd have no qualms with him on a top pairing here.

Yes, his teams have missed the playoffs. I get that. But this guy does his job as a defensive Dman.
He was supposed to be a do-it-all d-man...
When the salary is over 6 million, that should be part of the description.
When he did not come as advertised...
That salary became an obstacle.

It may have been Flames ineptitude to give him such a large contract...
And he did well to change his game and become a useful player...
But he should have been more.

No question the St. Louis Blues made a good trade...
He should fit in well there...
And since they are so far below the salary cap...
The salary should not affect the team's ability to add more talents...

However...
If the Blues miss the playoffs...
It has to be JBo.

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:39 PM
  #614
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
And their forwards?
They don't have center depth to let Berglund walk..They will probably either set up a package for upgrade trade. Other than that I could see Elliott,Redden,Russel gone perhaps. They are so under the cap. Amac will be gone and he is making like 4 mil.

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04-01-2013, 09:44 PM
  #615
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Originally Posted by vanuck View Post
And their forwards?
I don't think it will cost them assuming their internal budget is $64m not $55m. They are only at $38m committed including Jbo for next year. Even assuming high end paydays for Stewart ($4.5m), Pietrangelo ($6.5m), Shattenkirk ($4.5m) that still have plenty of room. I think they may be the only team to be able to take him this deadline and feel safe about it. Detroit has a lot room too, but not with Jbo on board.

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04-01-2013, 09:49 PM
  #616
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Originally Posted by TimtheDJ84 View Post
They don't have center depth to let Berglund walk..They will probably either set up a package for upgrade trade. Other than that I could see Elliott,Redden,Russel gone perhaps. They are so under the cap. Amac will be gone and he is making like 4 mil.
They have $26 mil in cap space right now for next year with 13 players signed. Pieterangelo will almost certainly be getting the Doughty/Karlsson special and be making $7 mil a year and remember no longer is the 15 year back dive allowed so the cap hit will be similar.

That leaves them $19 mil.

Shattenkirk is going to be 4-5 mil. Down some more to the 14-15 mil range. Add in Stewart and Berglund and Steen the next year and they are a cap team if they plan any improvements. Problem is they AREN'T a cap team and there is little to suggest ownership will be a cap team.

Sure those other guys will be gone but they still need to replace them so the salary paid isn't going to change.

Bouwmeester makes things more difficult even if they plan to be a cap team and I'm not sure they do. You suggest they might move some guys in a package...well that would be costing them players. I think it puts them in a bit of difficult situation.

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04-01-2013, 09:54 PM
  #617
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Originally Posted by TimtheDJ84 View Post
They don't have center depth to let Berglund walk..They will probably either set up a package for upgrade trade. Other than that I could see Elliott,Redden,Russel gone perhaps. They are so under the cap. Amac will be gone and he is making like 4 mil.
They might not want to let go of Berglund, but not because of a lack of center depth. Blues have a ton of C's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by me2 View Post
I don't think it will cost them assuming their internal budget is $64m not $55m. They are only at $38m committed including Jbo for next year. Even assuming high end paydays for Stewart ($4.5m), Pietrangelo ($6.5m), Shattenkirk ($4.5m) that still have plenty of room. I think they may be the only team to be able to take him this deadline and feel safe about it. Detroit has a lot room too, but not with Jbo on board.
What tantalum said makes it seem like they're going to be in a bit of a squeeze next year. If their young guns get the raises it'll still cost them their other depth players. But they could probably keep their RFA's that way.


Last edited by vanuck: 04-01-2013 at 10:01 PM.
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Old
04-01-2013, 09:55 PM
  #618
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Regehr to the Kings for x2 2nd rounders.

They're definitively a better team now. Obviously a slow stay-at-home D would look bad in the Sabres' 5 forwards system, LA will be a much better fit for him.
Ehh, he was getting pretty tough minutes with Buffalo and struggling. Doubt LA uses him as much more than a depth guy at this point. Seems like a bit of an overpayment to me.

As for Bouwmeester, hard to believe that's the best Calgary could get for him. His contract isn't great, but he's still a top pairing defensive defenseman who can put up ~30 points a season. A (probably) late first, average D prospect and a 26 year old goalie with questionable-at-best NHL upside isn't great value for JBo IMO.

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:58 PM
  #619
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Doesn't feel like a Holland move to me. Certainly not a big market with Detroit and STL. Even Detroit would have to walkaway/move/buyout guys to comfortably fit him in. They have a few guys to resign ( UFAs: Howard, Brunner, Filppula, RFAs like Smith)

I think teams like PHI, NYI, NJ, FLA, TBay and more could use a Dman like him. What they would have to move out is another matter. But he would definitely help those teams.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tantalum View Post
He does his job as a $4 mill type guy. I don't think he does the job as a $7 million guy. They have some big contracts to give out this offseason (Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Stewart, Berglund). Steen the year after.

I think this move could costs them Shattenkirk or someone significant upfront. So I'm really not that convinced this truly improves the Blues organization.

It will cost them. No doubt. But it's a move made to improve the top of the roster. Depth pieces will be lost as a result.

Just to provide some context: When looking at CorsiRelQoC, _no_ Dman has consistently beat Bouwmeester in this category for 3 years running. And he has finished in the top 30 twice, and outside once (at 34), during that span. I'm not sure if that's worth 7m, but I would be more than comfortable in giving him 6m for that alone. Pietro and him are going to stifle teams for years to come.

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Old
04-01-2013, 10:12 PM
  #620
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I think teams like PHI, NYI, NJ, FLA, TBay and more could use a Dman like him. What they would have to move out is another matter. But he would definitely help those teams.
It's not a question of helping them, it's a question of finding cap space.

Philly wouldn't risk this years 1st, and they can't even come close to handling his cap hit without buyouts/moves.

Islanders are too cheap.

Florida is rebuilding.

Tbay can't afford him either without moves, even with Ohlund on LTIR.

Maybe NJ, but they have a lot of UFA/RFA forwards to get sorted first. Even then they may have other plans for their cap.

It all comes back to the fact the JBO market was tiny unless Calgary ate contract. IMHO they should have they would have a opened up the field and gotten a much better return.

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04-01-2013, 10:20 PM
  #621
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SN Hockey Central knob saying Kipper as good as Luongo....sigh...

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04-01-2013, 10:23 PM
  #622
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They might not want to let go of Berglund, but not because of a lack of center depth. Blues have a ton of C's.
No, we don't. Backes, Berglund and Nichol and that is it. We've had Steen (LW), Sobotka (LW) and even Schwartz (another LW) playing there this season as a makeshift setup. Oshie and McDonald aren't C's either.

Berglund would only go if we're geting a C in return.

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04-01-2013, 10:23 PM
  #623
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SN Hockey Central knob saying Kipper as good as Luongo....sigh...
Don't expect anything less from Spector.

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04-01-2013, 10:26 PM
  #624
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The national media just loves piling on the Canucks. You could see Simmons and Button literally giggling with each other while stating there's currently no market for Luongo.

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Old
04-01-2013, 10:29 PM
  #625
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He does his job as a $4 mill type guy. I don't think he does the job as a $7 million guy. They have some big contracts to give out this offseason (Pietrangelo, Shattenkirk, Stewart, Berglund). Steen the year after.

I think this move could costs them Shattenkirk or someone significant upfront. So I'm really not that convinced this truly improves the Blues organization.
The Blues are super deep upfront. Just look at Stewart, he is only playing about 15:30 minutes a game. So if in fact Bouwmeester costs them one of there forwards it may not be the end of the world.

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