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Old
03-29-2013, 07:56 PM
  #1
FLAMESFAN
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2004

Looking back we had Iggy, Kipper and Regehr all in their primes. Should we have done more to sell the future and assemble a dominant team?
Our following 1st rounders (Chucko & Pelech) haven't done crap, and we also had Lombardi, Saprykin and Kobasew who were all young and promising. All in all some very good pieces (which we didn't get anything from) that could have brought in some good players.
I kind of feel like management just coasted after 2004 thinking we could repeat the magic. Goes to show you just how hard it is to get past the first round. When you have talent like Iggy & Kipper in their primes you take advantage of it, not sit and be happy with minor moves.
Not getting that top centreman for Iggy was a terrible choice in hindsight.

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03-29-2013, 09:04 PM
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I think the main reason for us not being successful is the drafting. So far, the top player we've ever drafted has been Lombardi or something...

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03-29-2013, 09:09 PM
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Craiggy
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Also around the time of the Phaneuf deal didn't help us at all. When we brought all them guys in and bounced them all out apart from Stajan (I'm glad we kept him, he's been solid this year).

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03-29-2013, 11:18 PM
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Skobel24
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If anything, this team should have done more to get that #1 center.

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03-29-2013, 11:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
If anything, this team should have done more to get that #1 center.
But we went out to get Langkow...

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03-29-2013, 11:21 PM
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Calculon
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Originally Posted by Skobel24 View Post
If anything, this team should have done more to get that #1 center.
The alleged rumor of D.Sutter turning down J.Thornton because he didn't want to trade Regehr looks really, really, bad in hindsight.

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03-30-2013, 12:50 AM
  #7
InfinityIggy
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Originally Posted by Baerstcheese View Post
I think the main reason for us not being successful is the drafting. So far, the top player we've ever drafted has been Lombardi or something...
Agreed, too many years we we got absolutely 0 mileage out of our picks.

Thanks Sutter....WHY COULDN'T YOU JUST STAY COACH?

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Old
03-30-2013, 02:25 AM
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saillias
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The Flames and the Sens were the two teams that probably were hurt the worst from the full 2004-2005 lockout. A year off our core's prime for nothing.

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Old
03-30-2013, 08:40 PM
  #9
FLAMESFAN
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
The alleged rumor of D.Sutter turning down J.Thornton because he didn't want to trade Regehr looks really, really, bad in hindsight.
This is what I'm talking about. Even if it meant trading Reggie, this had to be done. Who knows what could have happened, but I'm sure Canuck fans would have been a lot less cocky than now......

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03-30-2013, 09:03 PM
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Guido Sarducci
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Originally Posted by saillias View Post
The Flames and the Sens were the two teams that probably were hurt the worst from the full 2004-2005 lockout. A year off our core's prime for nothing.
And I think the Flames were hurt the most by the 48 game season. Not having much luck with lockouts.

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03-30-2013, 09:12 PM
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Guido Sarducci
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
The alleged rumor of D.Sutter turning down J.Thornton because he didn't want to trade Regehr looks really, really, bad in hindsight.
Ya really. I think 28 teams missed the boat on that one. According to Peter Mahr, Regehr, Kobasew and Yelle would have been the price for Thornton. Imagine a top line of Simon-Thornton-Iginla!

And even though the Bruins didn't get much for Thornton, it didn't seem to hurt them. They basically just took Thorntons money and gave it to Charra. One of those rare trades that seemed to help both teams.

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03-31-2013, 02:29 AM
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SmellOfVictory
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Thornton trade (lack thereof) was mentioned already. This is pre-2004, but kicking Savard out because he didn't get along with a coach, while subsequently firing the coach a couple weeks later, was a terrible move as well.

I don't even think they had to push for a "real" first line centre, exactly; Langkow was pretty close. However, trading one of those low first round picks in a package for another core player would've been a good idea. And Regehr probably should've been traded for something (if not Thornton) as soon as the lockout ended.

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03-31-2013, 03:42 AM
  #13
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Originally Posted by Guido Sarducci View Post
Ya really. I think 28 teams missed the boat on that one. According to Peter Mahr, Regehr, Kobasew and Yelle would have been the price for Thornton. Imagine a top line of Simon-Thornton-Iginla!

And even though the Bruins didn't get much for Thornton, it didn't seem to hurt them. They basically just took Thorntons money and gave it to Charra. One of those rare trades that seemed to help both teams.

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Old
03-31-2013, 01:53 PM
  #14
saillias
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I remember that exact package being offered for Heatley? Except the Thrashers didn't like it and took Ottawa's offer instead.

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Old
03-31-2013, 02:12 PM
  #15
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Originally Posted by FLAMESFAN View Post
Looking back we had Iggy, Kipper and Regehr all in their primes. Should we have done more to sell the future and assemble a dominant team?
(
We didn't sell the future ?????.

IN a cap world, once you've assembled a decent core (and at that time the Flames had a decent core, though it wasn't getting any better), what separates from the other teams with decent cores is your complimentary players.

The Flames didn't (and haven't had) a a particularly good compliment of players, as they had few young (re:cheaper) players coming up to supplement the core, instead relying upon aging players and/or UFA's who are more expensive.

You need to keep your picks to you can have some cheaper talent coming up to replace older and more expensive complimentary players. The Flames didn't do a good job of managing their assets. And they let their core get old when they should have rebuilt 2-3 years ago.

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Old
03-31-2013, 04:29 PM
  #16
RA9
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Originally Posted by slappipappi View Post
We didn't sell the future ?????.

IN a cap world, once you've assembled a decent core (and at that time the Flames had a decent core, though it wasn't getting any better), what separates from the other teams with decent cores is your complimentary players.

The Flames didn't (and haven't had) a a particularly good compliment of players, as they had few young (re:cheaper) players coming up to supplement the core, instead relying upon aging players and/or UFA's who are more expensive.

You need to keep your picks to you can have some cheaper talent coming up to replace older and more expensive complimentary players. The Flames didn't do a good job of managing their assets. And they let their core get old when they should have rebuilt 2-3 years ago.
nope, the flames were regarded as one of the deepest teams in the nhl when we used to be contenders. huselius, langkow, moss (at times), bourque, nystrom, and prust. the reason we went so far in 04 was because we had the whole team contributing. kobasew, ference, donovan, simon, lombardi, yelle. Sutter got them to buy into a system, and they gelled at the right time and with a hot goalie and a superstar in iginla, they beat some very good teams.

our window was 04-'10, if sutter stayed as head coach, and let someone else do the gm'ing, we would've at least made the finals once in the past few years IMO, he is a tremendous coach.

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Old
03-31-2013, 05:26 PM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Guido Sarducci View Post
Ya really. I think 28 teams missed the boat on that one. According to Peter Mahr, Regehr, Kobasew and Yelle would have been the price for Thornton. Imagine a top line of Simon-Thornton-Iginla!

And even though the Bruins didn't get much for Thornton, it didn't seem to hurt them. They basically just took Thorntons money and gave it to Charra. One of those rare trades that seemed to help both teams.
Honestly that's an even worse return than we actually got

And the Thronton trade helped us because it marked the end of an era and got everyone into a new mindset. Might be similar to the Iginla trade, but that changing of the guard does not justify the terrible return they got (regarding Thornton).

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