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Ownership Saga: The Great Gosbee Edition

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Old
04-25-2013, 12:17 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by NHLfan4life View Post
I know I don't blindly accept anything BUT, I tend to believe those that are holding all of the cards like the NHL does. What they say goes whether is stands up to logic or not.

The team is worth only what someone is willing to pay for it. It is obviously not worth 170mm in it's current form.
A much better response here.

No question the NHL holds the cards though the City was able to force the league to show their hand with Jamison and it turned out they had nothing. And it is that alone why no one should believe the NHL's word that there are others who want to own the Coyotes right now.

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04-25-2013, 05:55 PM
  #452
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A much better response here.

No question the NHL holds the cards though the City was able to force the league to show their hand with Jamison and it turned out they had nothing. And it is that alone why no one should believe the NHL's word that there are others who want to own the Coyotes right now.
A Mercedes Benz car salesman once told me "I've got a price and you've got a price and hopefully we can make something happen"

That's what is going on here. It doesn't matter what the franchise is worth. I tend to agree with you guys that the franchise is probably worth around 130-140 million in Phoenix. But the NHL knows they can move the franchise to another city and get far more than that so they have a certain price that needs to be met. I also understand that any potential buyer has to make money and they aren't going to overpay for a franchise that prohibits them from making money too. Both sides will have to sacrafice to make a deal happen. If the NHL wants to keep a team in Phoenix then they need to recognize they can't ask for 170 million + and if someone wants to buy the Coyotes, they have to recognize that the NHL is not going to go for a 150 million dollar bid either. Either way, the NHL holds all the cards. Right now, they can find 2-3 markets interested in purchasing the Coyotes for far more than 170 million.

It's business. I don't understand the negative adversarial attitudes that are demonstrated. If a deal doesn't work out, I'm not going to throw a hissy fit and blame the NHL or Glendale. When a deal doesn't get done, there is not always a villain

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04-25-2013, 06:07 PM
  #453
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The problem is that the team should not be priced at $170 million. That price was reached through artificial means, and the NHL should be swallowing the difference. Instead, they've managed to extract $50 million more from Glendale without anyone asking the million dollar question. That the league tacked on $30 million in losses is not Glendale's problem, nor the fans. Under normal circumstances, a corporation eats that cost. It's the cost of maintaining your legal right to franchise as you please. That the NHL got to keep someone they hate out of the owners club was just a bonus. Let's not forget the massive failure on the part of the NHL to execute agreements they had that would have prevented this situation in the first place.

Any downplaying of this or acceptance of the $170 million price tag makes you complicit in this shameful situation. The media here has put zero pressure on the league regarding the price, despite it being painfully overpriced. I blame them as much as anyone for this situation. Maybe the apathy displayed is why Phoenix doesn't deserve a team.

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04-25-2013, 07:02 PM
  #454
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Gosbee's team could sign a deal next week:

http://video.tsn.ca/videohub.aspx?dl.../913270/clip/0

3 min mark

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04-25-2013, 07:08 PM
  #455
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Gosbee's team could sign a deal next week:

http://video.tsn.ca/videohub.aspx?dl.../913270/clip/0

3 min mark
Good news. But it could all go horribly wrong if they want 12m+ from the city. Could be a put up or shut up deal from the league to Glendale.

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04-25-2013, 08:20 PM
  #456
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Any "group" or "groups" already know what the city will go for as in a yearly AMF. No blind attempts to reach a deal with the NHL without already knowing that. I'm not predicting anything...just know that.


Quote:
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Good news. But it could all go horribly wrong if they want 12m+ from the city. Could be a put up or shut up deal from the league to Glendale.

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04-25-2013, 11:40 PM
  #457
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Any "group" or "groups" already know what the city will go for as in a yearly AMF. No blind attempts to reach a deal with the NHL without already knowing that. I'm not predicting anything...just know that.
Agreed! No group is dumb enough to think they are getting 15 million a year from Glendale. They are probably assuming it's 10-12 and hoping for 12. It's not so much the amount per year but also the length of the term that troubled Glendale. Even when the Jamison deal fell, it was rumored Glendale was more open to a shorter term. 12 million for 15 years is 180 million subsidy. That is much more reasonable than the 450 million subsidy (15 million for 30 year deal) that Jamison was receiving. So even at 12 million per year, the new City Council and Mayor look like heroes because they can claim they kept the hockey team and saved the city millions compared to the previous deal. Plus, I don't think Glendale wants to be the bad guys on this. This is just my opinion, but I can't see Glendale letting the Coyotes walk over 2 million a year.


Last edited by coyotes: 04-25-2013 at 11:46 PM.
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04-26-2013, 08:26 PM
  #458
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Agreed! No group is dumb enough to think they are getting 15 million a year from Glendale. They are probably assuming it's 10-12 and hoping for 12. It's not so much the amount per year but also the length of the term that troubled Glendale. Even when the Jamison deal fell, it was rumored Glendale was more open to a shorter term. 12 million for 15 years is 180 million subsidy. That is much more reasonable than the 450 million subsidy (15 million for 30 year deal) that Jamison was receiving. So even at 12 million per year, the new City Council and Mayor look like heroes because they can claim they kept the hockey team and saved the city millions compared to the previous deal. Plus, I don't think Glendale wants to be the bad guys on this. This is just my opinion, but I can't see Glendale letting the Coyotes walk over 2 million a year.
Unfortunately there is more than one person sitting on the current city council who are that dumb.

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04-26-2013, 08:48 PM
  #459
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"@cmorgancbsfoxaz: Anthony LeBlanc, George Gosbee and Darin Pastor will all attend tonight's Coyotes-Avs game."

"@OfftheIce620: #Coyotes announcer: TV viewership up nearly 150 percent, highest number of season ticket holders since '99."


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04-27-2013, 09:09 AM
  #460
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"@OfftheIce620: #Coyotes announcer: TV viewership up nearly 150 percent, highest number of season ticket holders since '99."
When you start with incredibly low numbers percentage gains can look fantastic but you may still finish nonviable.

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04-27-2013, 09:31 AM
  #461
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
A much better response here.

No question the NHL holds the cards though the City was able to force the league to show their hand with Jamison and it turned out they had nothing. And it is that alone why no one should believe the NHL's word that there are others who want to own the Coyotes right now.
How do you know the NHL holds all the cards? Maybe, just maybe, their current TV contract stipulates that they need a certain number of US based teams. Maybe, just maybe, that is why Bettman is fighting so hard to keep the team in Phoenix. Maybe, just maybe, the NHL can do better financially if they collect expansion fees from two teams instead of the relocation fee. Stop assuming that you know the ins and outs of this situation. You are guessing, just like the rest of us.

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04-27-2013, 09:32 AM
  #462
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When you start with incredibly low numbers percentage gains can look fantastic but you may still finish nonviable.
True, but its going in the right direction.

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04-27-2013, 09:36 AM
  #463
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The problem is that the team should not be priced at $170 million. That price was reached through artificial means, and the NHL should be swallowing the difference. Instead, they've managed to extract $50 million more from Glendale without anyone asking the million dollar question. That the league tacked on $30 million in losses is not Glendale's problem, nor the fans. Under normal circumstances, a corporation eats that cost. It's the cost of maintaining your legal right to franchise as you please. That the NHL got to keep someone they hate out of the owners club was just a bonus. Let's not forget the massive failure on the part of the NHL to execute agreements they had that would have prevented this situation in the first place.

Any downplaying of this or acceptance of the $170 million price tag makes you complicit in this shameful situation. The media here has put zero pressure on the league regarding the price, despite it being painfully overpriced. I blame them as much as anyone for this situation. Maybe the apathy displayed is why Phoenix doesn't deserve a team.
How do you know its overpriced? Explain to me what the team is worth and how you arrived at that price.

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04-27-2013, 10:02 AM
  #464
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How do you know its overpriced? Explain to me what the team is worth and how you arrived at that price.
I've explained it several times, and I know you've read it. I'd ask you to float a realistic scenario where the team is worth $170+ million or 'under valued' but I have a hunch I won't get an answer. It's the "hur durr you don't know what's in the agreement" argument, which is stupid and childish. I know what is in the agreement; one severely distressed NHL franchise that couldn't be sold with $300 million on the table. Feel free to explain how the Coyotes are worth more than the Blues, for starters. You must do so without uttering the phrases or alluding to the 'big TV market' or 'potential.' Good luck.

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04-27-2013, 10:26 AM
  #465
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Originally Posted by Jakey53 View Post
How do you know its overpriced? Explain to me what the team is worth and how you arrived at that price.
It's worth less than negative 130 million. JiG was offered 130 million just to take them and he couldn't pull it off.

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04-27-2013, 05:31 PM
  #466
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I've explained it several times, and I know you've read it. I'd ask you to float a realistic scenario where the team is worth $170+ million or 'under valued' but I have a hunch I won't get an answer. It's the "hur durr you don't know what's in the agreement" argument, which is stupid and childish. I know what is in the agreement; one severely distressed NHL franchise that couldn't be sold with $300 million on the table. Feel free to explain how the Coyotes are worth more than the Blues, for starters. You must do so without uttering the phrases or alluding to the 'big TV market' or 'potential.' Good luck.
Look, I have no idea what the team is worth, and either do you. All you have heard, like the rest of us, is what the media has said and then we all assumed from there. Just because St. Louis sold for less doesn't mean a darn thing. Maybe it was a better deal than the one here and that is why it sold quickly. St. Louis could have been undervalued.

And no, I have not read your explanation of what the team is worth.

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04-27-2013, 05:33 PM
  #467
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It's worth less than negative 130 million. JiG was offered 130 million just to take them and he couldn't pull it off.
Tell me what the team is worth and how you arrived at such a price?

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04-27-2013, 06:10 PM
  #468
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Tell me what the team is worth and how you arrived at such a price?
I just did.

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04-27-2013, 06:12 PM
  #469
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I just did.
So you are saying it is worth virtually nothing?

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04-27-2013, 06:12 PM
  #470
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Trying to pass off rhetoric as truth and facts doesn't help your case. In fact, doing such a thing shows that one is dodging the real truth and facts.

We have answered what you have asked and said many times and you still don't get it.

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04-27-2013, 06:26 PM
  #471
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Trying to pass off rhetoric as truth and facts doesn't help your case. In fact, doing such a thing shows that one is dodging the real truth and facts.

We have answered what you have asked and said many times and you still don't get it.
You answered what you assume is correct. I get that, but unless you have read all the documents first hand you are only assuming. When this all started the Yotes were losing 30 - 40 mill. or whatever it was, and now they are saying its more like 10mill. I'm not dodging the truth and facts because I do not know the truth and facts, the same as you.

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04-27-2013, 06:44 PM
  #472
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So you are saying it is worth virtually nothing?
Would you trade me seventeen dollars for thirty six dollars?

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04-27-2013, 06:45 PM
  #473
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Honestly, though, I really don't care.

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04-27-2013, 06:51 PM
  #474
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If Greg Jamison had the money to purchase the team then why didn't he complete the sale when he had the chance and the agreement in place with the city?

Oh stop that AP! Glendale is the real reason why the Coyotes are where they are now.

Glendale is responsible for how the team has operated over the years.
Glendale is responsible for putting the team into bankruptcy.
Anyone that Gary Bettman and the NHL flants out as a perspective owner is for real because they both said so.

Just blindly drink the Kool-Aid AP and the truth shall set me free.

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04-27-2013, 06:54 PM
  #475
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Honestly, though, I really don't care.
Yeah, either do I. I'm sick of the whole thing just like everyone else.

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