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Iginla vs. Sundin (Two Poll Options)

View Poll Results: Who is the better player / Who would you rather start a franchise with
Sundin is the better player 77 47.24%
Iginla is the better player 76 46.63%
I'd rather start a franchise with Sundin 96 58.90%
I'd rather start a franchise with Iginla 55 33.74%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 163. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:32 PM
  #26
Ceremony
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Iginla, both.

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:41 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob8hockey View Post
You can almost not get a better overall top line center then Sundin imo.
If I had a choice, I'd prefer my center to finish top 10 in league scoring more than twice, to play a strong two-way game, and to get something done in the playoffs. None of this describes Sundin.

Quote:
He is all around everything you want. A skilled giant who consistently put up 70+ points. Hes one of those players that you could call better when he gets 70 pts then a player who was PPG because of what he brings to the team.
What all did Sundin bring to the team other than scoring? He was a decent back checker, but nothing special, no better than your average center in the era.

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Old
03-28-2013, 10:43 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by WarriorofTime View Post
Yeah but Iginla has a Cup ring.

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03-28-2013, 10:45 PM
  #29
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Iginla as a better player but probably take the center to start a franchise with, although if we had a good center and no wing that would likely change my mind.

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03-28-2013, 11:28 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If I had a choice, I'd prefer my center to finish top 10 in league scoring more than twice, to play a strong two-way game, and to get something done in the playoffs. None of this describes Sundin.



What all did Sundin bring to the team other than scoring? He was a decent back checker, but nothing special, no better than your average center in the era.
Maybe instead of highlighting the top 10's in their careers you actually take a look individually at each year and all of them together.


GP - 1346

Goals - 564

Assists - 785

Points - 1349

______________________________________________

GP - 1219

Goals - 525

Assists - 570

Points - 1095

Guess who is who? Doesn't look like his PPG totals will be getting much better anytime soon. Statisically, Sundin wins and their is no arguement around it.

Tied for the lead in NHL OT winners, has the higher peak of the two, 97 GWG to put him 7th all time, tied for scoring 20 goals in 17 straight seasons, all well being a giant at 6'5.

Not really sure how you wouldn't want the consistent franchise center instead of the winger who you argue has the better points when he clearly does not and its not like Iginla is some defensive stud ethier. But then again, I guess if you aren't a top 10 scorer then your just an average center.

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03-28-2013, 11:44 PM
  #31
TheDevilMadeMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob8hockey View Post
Maybe instead of highlighting the top 10's in their careers you actually take a look individually at each year and all of them together.


GP - 1346

Goals - 564

Assists - 785

Points - 1349

______________________________________________

GP - 1219

Goals - 525

Assists - 570

Points - 1095

Guess who is who? Doesn't look like his PPG totals will be getting much better anytime soon. Statisically, Sundin wins and their is no arguement around it.

Tied for the lead in NHL OT winners, has the higher peak of the two, 97 GWG to put him 7th all time, tied for scoring 20 goals in 17 straight seasons, all well being a giant at 6'5.

Not really sure how you wouldn't want the consistent franchise center instead of the winger who you argue has the better points when he clearly does not and its not like Iginla is some defensive stud ethier. But then again, I guess if you aren't a top 10 scorer then your just an average center.
How does Sundin have a higher peak when Iginla is the guy who won the Ted Lindsay (then Pearson) award and Art Ross? I looked at top 10 finishes because Sundin played a good portion of his career in a much higher scoring era.

If you want a fair comparison but don't like top 10 finishes, look at the scoring when they were both in their primes at the same time. From 1999-00 (22 year old Iginla breaks 60 points for the first time) to 2007-08 (Sundin's last full season in Toronto), Iginla had 312 goals and 317 assists for 629 points in 626 games, and Sundin had 259 goals and 347 assists for 606 points in 612 games.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

There is absolutely no way Sundin was better in his prime than Iginla.

Edit: I understand people wanting to build around the center though, even though I voted to build around the better player myself.


Last edited by TheDevilMadeMe: 03-28-2013 at 11:50 PM.
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Old
03-28-2013, 11:55 PM
  #32
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Start with Sundin---what he was best at was being a consistent scorer. Except for his rookie year, he scored at least 70 points in every full non-lockout shortened season. It was close, because I like Iggy's physical play too...but Iggy is a winger.

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:08 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob8hockey View Post
Maybe instead of highlighting the top 10's in their careers you actually take a look individually at each year and all of them together.


GP - 1346

Goals - 564

Assists - 785

Points - 1349

______________________________________________

GP - 1219

Goals - 525

Assists - 570

Points - 1095

Guess who is who? Doesn't look like his PPG totals will be getting much better anytime soon. Statisically, Sundin wins and their is no arguement around it.

Tied for the lead in NHL OT winners, has the higher peak of the two, 97 GWG to put him 7th all time, tied for scoring 20 goals in 17 straight seasons, all well being a giant at 6'5.

Not really sure how you wouldn't want the consistent franchise center instead of the winger who you argue has the better points when he clearly does not and its not like Iginla is some defensive stud ethier. But then again, I guess if you aren't a top 10 scorer then your just an average center.
Playing all of early 90s (pre-lockout) does that to career totals.....

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:16 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
Where did the Leafs ever go with Sundin? The only time they made it past the second round, he was injured.
We went to the 3rd round 2 times, with him on the roster.

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:22 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
We went to the 3rd round 2 times, with him on the roster.
Whooops... Toronto in 1999 with Sundin totally slipped my mind. I was thinking of 2002 when Gary Roberts and Curtis Joseph led Sundin to the Conference finals after Sundin got injured - kind of the NHL's version of Ewing theory.

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:22 AM
  #36
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Good poll.

Very tough choices. I went Iginla/Iginla, but it was a close decision. No wrong answer here, but IMO Iginla is the more talented of the two.

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:30 AM
  #37
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can we agree

that Igilna was the winger Toronto was looking for to play with Sundin

and

Sundin was the center that Calgary was looking for to play with Igilna

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Old
03-29-2013, 12:33 AM
  #38
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I love both players.

I'm picking Mats cause he was a Leaf. Not gonna lie.

Although even if I wasn't it would be close. Both HoF'ers and class acts.

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Old
03-29-2013, 03:21 PM
  #39
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Sundin to build, rangy centre with great shot, superior vision and leadership skills is yummy.

Iginla as better player, more individual stats and hardware.

Playoffs are meh. They're a function of the general manager's ability to put the right players on the ice, as well as luck and in-room leadership. Jarome wasn't a bad leader these past years but management gave him scraps. Sundin was a big budget team but didn't grow their players enough at the time (Kaberle coming to mind as one exception though).

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03-29-2013, 06:54 PM
  #40
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I disagree with the premise.

Bure was more important than either of these two.

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03-29-2013, 07:10 PM
  #41
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Sundin IMO.

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03-29-2013, 07:23 PM
  #42
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Sundin played to the age of 38 at a high level

Igilna is 35 and isn't the same player he was

also Igilna may have had more top 10 scoring finishes

but Sundin was more consistent


Both great players

imagine if they played together


Last edited by tml145: 03-29-2013 at 07:29 PM.
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03-29-2013, 07:25 PM
  #43
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Iginla in both categories. But its very close. Iginla was, in his prime, the best player in hockey. Sundin never was.

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03-29-2013, 07:28 PM
  #44
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I've never said AINEC before but I'll say it now: Jarome Iginla AINEC!!

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Old
03-29-2013, 07:30 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tml145 View Post
can we agree

that Igilna was the winger Toronto was looking for to play with Sundin

and

Sundin was the center that Calgary was looking for to play with Igilna
Yet Iginla still won the Rocket twice!

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Old
03-29-2013, 07:47 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penosity View Post
I disagree with the premise.

Bure was more important than either of these two.
Just to add to this and to make sure it's not misunderstood:

Pavel Bure is the most important player to have ever played for the Vancouver Canucks franchise as he is the reason for the exponential growth in the city as a hockey market. He did to Vancouver what Alex Ovechkin and Sidney Crosby have done for their respective markets, transforming a middling Canadian market into a hockey-crazed market. The popularity of the sport soared in Vancouver because of the exhilarating game-by-game performance of the Russian Rocket. He became the city's greatest attraction, and many people became fans of the player, paving the road for them to become fans of the team. His play, his early success in the NHL, and the 1994 Stanley Cup run electrified the market and made it one of British Columbia's prized possessions. After the 1994 run, the team held a fan appreciation day at BC Place. The stadium was packed with fans, and when Pavel came to speak at the podium, he received a long standing ovation. He had songs written about him, bags and bags of fanmail sent to him every week, and even an official fan club. He was adored by the people of Vancouver, and was a hero to an entire generation of fans.

The team became one of the premiere teams to watch in the NHL during the early 1990s with Pavel as its star, and Vancouver grew into an established hockey market, far removed from the mediocrity of the prior two decades. With the looming danger of relocation in the 1990s, Bure's contributions to hockey in Vancouver played a major role in the overwhelming desire to keep the team in the city.

Considering Pavel played for Vancouver between 1991 and 1998, his tenure overlaps with Roy's tenure with the Canadiens. Considering he arrived in Vancouver was traded a few years after Roy was traded from Montreal, though, Pavel is probably the most important star for a Canadian franchise since Patrick Roy. His time with Vancouver began in the midst of Roy's time with Montreal, and ended a few years after Iginla and Sundin joined their respective teams. I would consider him to have filled that void in the 1990s.

Iginla and Sundin came to prominence with their teams just as Pavel left Vancouver, so one could say the two are the most important franchise players in Canada since Bure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haatley View Post
Iginla in both categories. But its very close. Iginla was, in his prime, the best player in hockey. Sundin never was.
If the OP's question were asked in 2003, the debate may have very well been between Jarome Iginla and Markus Naslund. Markus was, in his prime, only second behind Iginla in scoring in 2001-02, only second behind Peter Forsberg in 2002-03, and fourth in league scoring in 2003-04 ahead of Iginla, Sundin, and Forsberg. Markus had a lengthier peak than Iginla and Sundin, and was considered one of the best players in the league on the most dominant line in hockey, the West Coast Express line.

Of course, because of his decline since being injured by Steve Moore, he isn't spoken of in such high regard as Iginla or Sundin. I'm not sure if he should be in this debate -- probably not -- but there was a time when Naslund was one of the faces of the NHL, considered one of the very best. If these players were all at their best from their time with their respective teams (Vancouver, Calgary, Toronto), it would be interesting to see where Naslund would fit amongst the other two.

Nike chose two market Naslund more heavily than either Kovalchuk or Iginla, featuring him in two commercials, one with each of the latter:



In terms of which I'd take between Iginla and Sundin, probably Jarome. In his prime, he was a dominant player. Canucks fans hated to watch their team play against him. On the other hand, Mats often put the Leafs on his back in the final portion of several seasons in order to help their efforts to reach the playoffs. Having watched Sundin at the very end of his career, many still saw glimpses of his former self. In the final few playoff games against Chicago in 2008-09, he was clearly fighting to keep the team alive and elevated his game to a level fans had not seen that year. He was a leader and is still one of my favorite Canucks post-Naslund era. It was a treat to watch him. I do think Jarome's career as a whole with the Flames leads to him being a slightly more effective player than Mats was for the Leafs. Both were incredible leaders, and both could carry their teams on their backs, but I think Jarome could do a bit more with less. It is close and one could make a case for either.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 03-29-2013 at 08:33 PM.
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Old
03-29-2013, 08:14 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
If I had a choice, I'd prefer my center to finish top 10 in league scoring more than twice, to play a strong two-way game, and to get something done in the playoffs. None of this describes Sundin.



What all did Sundin bring to the team other than scoring? He was a decent back checker, but nothing special, no better than your average center in the era.
Harsh words for a Hall of Famer.

I can respect that you clearly think Iginla was better, but as with most polls, it's closer than those of you who talk the loudest would have us believe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Love View Post
I've never said AINEC before but I'll say it now: Jarome Iginla AINEC!!
It's a poor time to start.

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Old
03-29-2013, 08:44 PM
  #48
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It's a poor time to start.
Haha ya I was probably being a bit excessive.


Nothing against Sundin he was a great player but I'd take Iginla 10 times out of 10.

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03-29-2013, 09:39 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrath View Post
Playing all of early 90s (pre-lockout) does that to career totals.....
Sundins point production was consistent throughout his career

he had 10 PPG seasons

two 74 point seasons

one 80 point season

one 72 point season

one 75 point seasons

also Sundin had the higher end season with 114 points


but this is close because Igilna was more of a goal scoring threat

i just don't understand everyone saying AINEC

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03-29-2013, 09:44 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe View Post
How does Sundin have a higher peak when Iginla is the guy who won the Ted Lindsay (then Pearson) award and Art Ross? I looked at top 10 finishes because Sundin played a good portion of his career in a much higher scoring era.

If you want a fair comparison but don't like top 10 finishes, look at the scoring when they were both in their primes at the same time. From 1999-00 (22 year old Iginla breaks 60 points for the first time) to 2007-08 (Sundin's last full season in Toronto), Iginla had 312 goals and 317 assists for 629 points in 626 games, and Sundin had 259 goals and 347 assists for 606 points in 612 games.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/play...rder_by=points

There is absolutely no way Sundin was better in his prime than Iginla.

Edit: I understand people wanting to build around the center though, even though I voted to build around the better player myself.
You're comparing a guy whose prime was 16 years long to a guy whose prime was 10 years (unless his prime keeps going, who knows with Iggy). In that 16 year stretch of Sundin's 18 year career, he never dipped below 0.90 points per game. Iginla on the other hand failed to hit 70 points (and 0.9PPG) in 3 of those 10 years.

I agree with you that Iginla has the higher peak, but Sundin's prime is more impressive due to sheer longevity and consistency, it's pretty rare to find a player who was capable of putting up Sundin's numbers for 16 straight years (hence why he's 27th all-time in points and 16th in adjusted points).

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