HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Central Division > Colorado Avalanche
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The 2013 NHL Entry Draft: Part II | [Avs Currently In: 29th overall]

View Poll Results: Besides the Big 3 who would you want the Avs to draft?
Barkov 58 44.62%
Erne 1 0.77%
Lindholm 23 17.69%
Monahan 6 4.62%
Nichushkin 16 12.31%
Nurse 9 6.92%
Pulock 2 1.54%
Ristolainen 3 2.31%
Shinkaruk 6 4.62%
Wennberg 2 1.54%
Zadorov 1 0.77%
OTHER 3 2.31%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-17-2013, 06:38 AM
  #726
Colorado Avalanche
Registered User
 
Colorado Avalanche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Lieto
Country: Finland
Posts: 19,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thomast View Post
Listened Button's new podcast he stated something about free agency cutoff date in cba at june 30th and Barkov+mackinnon are born at september. So teams which drafts them gets extra year based on free agency rule before they qualify for free agency. Extra year before they will be UFA. So 8 years instead of 7 years before they hit free agency.

At 22 minute mark if people didn't understand.

http://www.tsn.ca/window/podcastcent...id=17190&id=65

Don't know if that will be big bonus.
Interesting. http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1351765&page=8

Colorado Avalanche is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:14 AM
  #727
R S
.
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 25,442
vCash: 1000
Used to want Drouin if we didn't take Jones. Not sure I feel that way right now anymore.

R S is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:18 AM
  #728
Lonewolfe2015
Registered User
 
Lonewolfe2015's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Country: United States
Posts: 14,088
vCash: 413
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Used to want Drouin if we didn't take Jones. Not sure I feel that way right now anymore.
I still want him, but I think if we don't take Jones that MacK or Barkov are more 'Avs' type players.

I'm getting so excited about the draft though, I love that they switched to an all day model instead of the first round being at night. Will be a fun day for hockey fans.

Lonewolfe2015 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:25 AM
  #729
R S
.
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 25,442
vCash: 1000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
I still want him, but I think if we don't take Jones that MacK or Barkov are more 'Avs' type players.

I'm getting so excited about the draft though, I love that they switched to an all day model instead of the first round being at night. Will be a fun day for hockey fans.
I just want the lottery to be over so we know where we're picking. It's killing me.

R S is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:28 AM
  #730
klozge
Avs
 
klozge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Espelkamp, Germany
Country: Germany
Posts: 2,406
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Used to want Drouin if we didn't take Jones. Not sure I feel that way right now anymore.
Drouin would probably become my favorite Avs player very, very quickly but I think MacKinnon would be better for the team. I haven't seen either of them often enough, though.

Edit: I'm afraid they will be gone when the Avs will make their pick anyway. Being an Avs fan has made me a very pessimistic person.

klozge is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:35 AM
  #731
22FUTON9
Registered User
 
22FUTON9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: canada
Posts: 1,319
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
C'mon, Barkov is great talent, It's not only top-3, which is good. Whatever pick we get, we are going to get either great player or great potential. Whatever!

EDIT;

Of course I wanted Jones, but but not gonna happen after Giguere.

I know he's gonna be a great player, I think that the top 7 or so are really really good prospects (like Landeskog good) but I just think the top 3 are on a different level.

if it's out of the top 3 I might want nichushkin more than Barkov... him being Russian and his name sounds like he's gonna score 65 goals a season


Last edited by 22FUTON9: 04-17-2013 at 10:50 AM.
22FUTON9 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:37 AM
  #732
Avs71
Registered User
 
Avs71's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 4,834
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
People like to claim Jones is likely to bust or not live up to his draft position, I fully expect that out of Nurse. Both he and Zadarov I have a feeling end up nothing more than decent second pairing guys. I'm more interested in Ristolainen than those two.

No, I couldn't put up a solid enough argument why, as I'm not able to do any real scouting on all of these guys. Just call it a hunch I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
he's considered to be a semi raw athlete with little offensive upside.
i don't agree with the limited offensive upside portion.
if he busts out he will be a ok NHL defenseman. but if he reaches his ceiling IMO he and Jones will be the players scouts look for in a defenseman in future drafts.

i see Nurse as a 40-50 pt guy who will be really good on D. definitely a top pairing guy.
i love guys who have athletes in their family and are driven to succeed like Nurse is.
he's also the nephew(by marriage) of Donovan McNabb.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Some people are. From what I've seen and read, he's essentially a slightly more skilled version of Duncan Siemens. For me, he's in the 8-12 range of picks, not quite a top 8 guy on my board.

Before we REALLY sucked, I said he would be a guy I'm sure we would target if we were picking 8-12. Him and Siemens on our left side in the future would be hella intimidating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
i don't mean this in the wrong way. but damn that's sexy
we'd see fools getting crushed on a nightly basis. definitely would not have to worry about getting pushed around or intimidated by others.
Thanks for the responses. Definitely sounds like an interesting player if the Avs should fall to that range (hopefully not). If the Avs ended up picking him, and Seimens or him could play on the first pairing, that would be a mean looking core. A guy like him sounds like he wouldn't be worst prospect to add if it came to that.

Avs71 is online now  
Old
04-17-2013, 10:44 AM
  #733
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 20,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avs71 View Post
Thanks for the responses. Definitely sounds like an interesting player if the Avs should fall to that range (hopefully not). If the Avs ended up picking him, and Seimens or him could play on the first pairing, that would be a mean looking core. A guy like him sounds like he wouldn't be worst prospect to add if it came to that.
Nurse is a fine prospect, just not a Jones level of player. After thinking for weeks that Jones was a realistic possibility, people are bummed to think that we may have to settle for a different prospect.

There is still a sizable chance that the Avs finish anywhere from 1-6 in the draft order. Anything 7+ is very unlikely, and 12th is currently the absolute worst possible draft position (we would have to win out and everybody Phoenix, Buffalo, and Philly would have to lose all of their games). I still think we end up in the 1-3 range.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 11:39 AM
  #734
GamingGiant
Registered User
 
GamingGiant's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Colorado
Country: United States
Posts: 2,880
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I just want the lottery to be over so we know where we're picking. It's killing me.
Same.

I have created a standings tracker that I have tacked up on my desk wall at work.

GamingGiant is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 11:51 AM
  #735
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 26,058
vCash: 500
I've kind of settled into a top four I'm pretty comfortable with. Hopefully they won't have to go beyond that, because it gets a little trickier in my eyes. I think when picking this high, and with the Avs off and on ice issues, they need to take needs into consideration, and also consider the safer bet, rather than a bit more of a gamble on someone's game translating. They have to get a good impact player here.

1. Jones

The Avs just need too much help on D, and even if they trade for a top pairing guy, having a #3 that can be part of that next wave of youngsters should something happen with EJ or the newly acquired D would be huge.

The concerns are that he won't be as dominant as hyped. Similar to many highly touted defenseman, and first overall picks. If this happens, and he's more of a true #2 or #3 like what EJ is now, well then that's fine. Obviously a bit of a disappointment, but he'd still be able to help the team on the backend.

2. MacKinnon

I've gone back and forth over him and Drouin most of the year, but in the last couple weeks just decided to give Mac the edge basically because he's a safer pick.

The other big factor for me is since he's a center, and there's so much uncertainty with both Staz and O'Reilly, it would be foolish to pass on another pivot. Especially one that can transition to the wing if need be, and especially if the Avs already have it in their mind to trade O'Reilly no matter what. Leaving Duchene and a pending UFA Stastny with possible St. Louis plans as the Avs centers for the future.

The knock on him is that while he's very good in almost every area, he's not quite as dynamic or game breaking in any one. These kind of thoughts about prospects are never really more than hunches IMO. No one really knows, and they're constantly proven wrong by guys like Toews and Couturier.

Having the speed, and puck control of a Duchene MacKinnon 1-2 punch down the middle would be pretty impressive. Relying on him, because they lost O'Reilly and Staz would set the rebuild back a little though.

3. Drouin

This is a pretty easy number three IMO. Everyone knows how talented and smart he is offensively.

The knock on him is obviously his size, and whether he'll be able to pull off the same moves in the NHL. I actually have less reservations about this with him than other smaller players. He just seems so aware of everything out there, and is very elusive like a Jeff Skinner or Patrick Kane that I'm not as worried.

Therefore I'm not as concerned with him being fairly low scoring and not working out. I am a bit concerned with his game translating but possibly only being a 60 point one dimensional winger. This kind of production isn't all that hard to find.

I'm also interested in where Drouin would fit in the Avs lineup. I don't really think he'd be all that great with Duchene. Both Dutchy and PAP like to hold on to the puck and make plays. It's tough to have a successful line with three guys like that, especially since Drouin might like to dangle with the puck more than any of the other two.

MacKinnon's all around game, center ice position, bigger frame, and still having the potential to be a PPG player just give him an edge IMO.

4. Barkov

He's probably at the head of the pack for the next group. Just based on what he's done at his age basically, and the fact that he's known to be a very poised two way player.

His knocks are mainly his skating, which we have seen many times over the years Av prospects like Stastny and O'Reilly improve in this area and make it a non issue.

The little nagging worry I have though is that when I see the goals he scores, he doesn't appear to be moving his legs all that much. It's good that he knows where to be on the ice at the right time, but you need to be moving your feet in the NHL to be successful. The opposing teams and players he faces just seem ridiculously slow and give him all kinds of time and space as well. I wonder how much one can read into his success in the FEL, thinking what made him successful there will translate to the NHL. Then again maybe it will translate just fine.


Last edited by Foppa2118: 04-17-2013 at 12:00 PM.
Foppa2118 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 11:54 AM
  #736
R S
.
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 25,442
vCash: 1000
Only one game on the schedule tonight that should really affect our draft position....hoping for a big game from Calgary against Detroit.

EDIT: Flames announce that Kiprusoff is starting both tonight and on Friday. Not sure if that's good or bad. Obviously a better goalie than MacDonald is, but MacDonald probably cares a lot more at this point considering he's always battling to stay in the NHL.

R S is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 12:01 PM
  #737
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 20,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
I've kind of settled into a top four I'm pretty comfortable with. Hopefully they won't have to go beyond that, because it gets a little trickier in my eyes. I think when picking this high, and with the Avs off and on ice issues, they need to take needs into consideration, and also consider the safer bet, rather than a bit more of a gamble on someone's game translating. They have to get a good impact player here.

1. Jones

The Avs just need too much help on D, and even if they trade for a top pairing guy, having a #3 that can be part of that next wave of youngsters should something happen with EJ or the newly acquired D would be huge.

The concerns are that he won't be as dominant as hyped. Similar to many highly touted defenseman, and first overall picks. If this happens, and he's more of a true #2 or #3 like what EJ is now, well then that's fine. Obviously a bit of a disappointment, but he'd still be able to help the team on the backend.

2. MacKinnon

I've gone back and forth over him and Drouin most of the year, but in the last couple weeks just decided to give Mac the edge basically because he's a safer pick.

The other big factor for me is since he's a center, and there's so much uncertainty with both Staz and O'Reilly, it would be foolish to pass on another pivot. Especially one that can transition to the wing if need be, and especially if the Avs already have it in their mind to trade O'Reilly no matter what. Leaving Duchene and a pending UFA Stastny with possible St. Louis plans as the Avs centers for the future.

The knock on him is that while he's very good in almost every area, he's not quite as dynamic or game breaking in any one. These kind of thoughts about prospects are never really more than hunches IMO. No one really knows, and they're constantly proven wrong by guys like Toews and Couturier.

Having the speed, and puck control of a Duchene MacKinnon 1-2 punch down the middle would be pretty impressive. Relying on him, because they lost O'Reilly and Staz would set the rebuild back a little though.

3. Drouin

This is a pretty easy number three IMO. Everyone knows how talented and smart he is offensively.

The knock on him is obviously his size, and whether he'll be able to pull off the same moves in the NHL. I actually have less reservations about this with him than other smaller players. He just seems so aware of everything out there, and is very elusive like a Jeff Skinner or Patrick Kane that I'm not as worried.

Therefore I'm not as concerned with him being fairly low scoring and not working out. I am a bit concerned with his game translating but possibly only being a 60 point one dimensional winger. This kind of production isn't all that hard to find.

I'm also interested in where Drouin would fit in the Avs lineup. I dont' really think he'd be all that great with Duchene. Both Dutchy and PAP like to hold on to the puck and make plays. It's tough to have a successful line with three guys like that, especially since Drouin might like to dangle with the puck more than any of the other two.

MacKinnon's all around game, center ice position, bigger frame, and still having the potential to be a PPG player just give him an edge IMO.

4. Barkov

He's probably at the head of the pack for the next group. Just based on what he's done at his age basically, and the fact that he's known to be a very poised two way player.

His knocks are mainly his skating, which we have seen many times over the years Av prospects like Stastny and O'Reilly improve in this area and make it a non issue.

The little nagging worry I have though is that when I see the goals he scores, he doesn't appear to be moving his legs all that much. It's good that he knows where to be on the ice at the right time, but you need to be moving your feet in the NHL to be successful. The opposing teams and players he faces just seem ridiculously slow and give him all kinds of time and space as well. I wonder how much one can read into his success in the FEL, thinking what made him successful there will translate to the NHL. Then again maybe it will translate just fine.
Scary example... Skinner has had how many concussions over the past 2 years? 3?

henchman24 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 12:03 PM
  #738
Foppa2118
Registered User
 
Foppa2118's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 26,058
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Scary example... Skinner has had how many concussions over the past 2 years? 3?
Yea I guess that's true, I forgot. He started off looking fairly elusive though, haha.

Foppa2118 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 12:09 PM
  #739
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 20,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Yea I guess that's true, I forgot. He started off looking fairly elusive though, haha.
That is the biggest question IMO when it comes to Drouin... will he be shifty like Skinner and have injuries or will he be shifty like Kane/Datsyuk? It is really hard to tell when he is playing against junior talent. That question mark combined with Mac having near elite #1C talent (I admit I might be higher than some, but I see 80-90 point talent in him with solid defensive play) makes Drouin the clear #3 pick in my mind.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 12:14 PM
  #740
SoundwaveIsCharisma
Moderator
 
SoundwaveIsCharisma's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Screw You Blaster
Country: Canada
Posts: 25,525
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SoundwaveIsCharisma
I see Nate as a shoot first, right-handed version of Dutch, and would be absolutely stoked to get him

SoundwaveIsCharisma is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 12:34 PM
  #741
CalderKing21
Darth Calder
 
CalderKing21's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Birmingham, AL
Country: United States
Posts: 2,500
vCash: 450
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Avalanche View Post
I dunno, If you had choice between Duchene/ROR/Stastny or Forsberg/Sakic. I don't think It's that easy.
it's pretty easy for me. Forsberg and Sakic are HOF players.
i love those 3(especially Duchene) but umm.. yeah not even close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
That is the biggest question IMO when it comes to Drouin... will he be shifty like Skinner and have injuries or will he be shifty like Kane/Datsyuk? It is really hard to tell when he is playing against junior talent. That question mark combined with Mac having near elite #1C talent (I admit I might be higher than some, but I see 80-90 point talent in him with solid defensive play) makes Drouin the clear #3 pick in my mind.
i like Mac, but i'm not particularly swayed by him being a C.
having really good centers are nice but Drouin to me is more of a scoring force than Mac, Mac seems like he'll be more of a play maker and assist guy. which there is nothing wrong with that at all, but we need more of a sniper right now.

CalderKing21 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 12:50 PM
  #742
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 20,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
i like Mac, but i'm not particularly swayed by him being a C.
having really good centers are nice but Drouin to me is more of a scoring force than Mac, Mac seems like he'll be more of a play maker and assist guy. which there is nothing wrong with that at all, but we need more of a sniper right now.
I think you are slightly confused here, both players are playmakers rather than pure snipers.

Drouin isn't a sniper, he is more of a playmaker that can score... he can score goals, but his shot is far from elite (neither his wrist shot nor slap shot are that hard). Drouin's hands get him into prime scoring areas and he is fairly accurate when he gets there so he can beat junior goalies with ease. I'm not sold that his shot is good enough to be NHL level goalies with the same ease he is beating Q goalies now. The question there is how will that translate against bigger and better players and systems.

MacKinnon is a playmaker with a great shot, but hands that are a notch below Drouin's (still very good though). Just going by shots MacKinnon wins by a mile and he is the type of player that can let off a wrist shot (his wristshot is top 5 in the draft) on the rush and just flat out beat a goalie, and he is more willing to go into dirty areas to pick up garbage goals.

In essence what I am trying to say is that MacKinnon will have more pure sniping goals than Drouin on a very consistent basis. Drouin will score goals by being able to use his hands to get to prime areas of the ice. I expect both of them to be in the 30-35 goal range once they hit their early 20s. IMO neither will hit 40 with any consistency or maybe ever.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:03 PM
  #743
InjuredChoker
Registered User
 
InjuredChoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LTIR or golf course
Posts: 28,993
vCash: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post

i like Mac, but i'm not particularly swayed by him being a C.
having really good centers are nice but Drouin to me is more of a scoring force than Mac, Mac seems like he'll be more of a play maker and assist guy. which there is nothing wrong with that at all, but we need more of a sniper right now.
Nate is the better scorer imo.

Faster first few steps (one of the best, Crosby-like), better shot.

InjuredChoker is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:42 PM
  #744
Sheet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,044
vCash: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Scary example... Skinner has had how many concussions over the past 2 years? 3?
Counter example. 99 was also small and elusive and not expected to be much at first either. His size, skating ability, and shot were all sub par... his iq was what made him.

Sheet is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:44 PM
  #745
PeterTheGreat
Registered User
 
PeterTheGreat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Nate is the better scorer imo.

Faster first few steps (one of the best, Crosby-like), better shot.
Faster first few steps than Duchene? Unlikely.

Agreed though he's a better shooter.

PeterTheGreat is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:45 PM
  #746
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 20,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheet View Post
Counter example. 99 was also small and elusive and not expected to be much at first either. His size, skating ability, and shot were all sub par... his iq was what made him.
Oh the Gretzky argument... lets just leave it at hockey in the 80s was way different than it is now and Drouin is no where near Gretzky.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:46 PM
  #747
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 20,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Faster first few steps than Duchene? Unlikely.

Agreed though he's a better shooter.
MacKinnon and Duchene are probably about the same there... Mac's skating is elite.

henchman24 is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:48 PM
  #748
Sheet
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,044
vCash: 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by henchman24 View Post
Oh the Gretzky argument... lets just leave it at hockey in the 80s was way different than it is now and Drouin is no where near Gretzky.
Don't get me wrong, I agree completely, but the physicals are far less important to me then offensive iq. We have to remember these kids are still young. They haven't even fill out yet.

Sheet is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #749
InjuredChoker
Registered User
 
InjuredChoker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: LTIR or golf course
Posts: 28,993
vCash: 925
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterTheGreat View Post
Faster first few steps than Duchene? Unlikely.

Agreed though he's a better shooter.
Duchene is up there for one of the best, too. I think they are about on par but as Nate is so young, I could see his first few steps being better than what Duchene has now.

That's only the first few steps.

Though Nate looks better when he's around juniors.

InjuredChoker is offline  
Old
04-17-2013, 01:51 PM
  #750
henchman24
If and if...
 
henchman24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 20,787
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheet View Post
Don't get me wrong, I agree completely, but the physicals are far less important to me then offensive iq. We have to remember these kids are still young. They haven't even fill out yet.
Drouin's hockey IQ is higher than Mac's, but the gap isn't huge.

henchman24 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.