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Best player avaliable or draft for need?

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Old
04-13-2005, 09:36 PM
  #1
King_Brown
 
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Best player avaliable or draft for need?

How do you think they Flames will enter the 2005 Draft if there ever is one? Take the best player avaliable or draft for need? My gut says if we draft early in the top 15 we will most def take a centre or LW prospect who is the best left, if we draft later I think Dustin Kohn is a lock in for us.

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04-13-2005, 09:53 PM
  #2
Michalek
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Most likely best available....

...western canadian

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04-13-2005, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michalek
Most likely best available....

...western canadian
I agree. The only way Sutter picks a certain spot (ie - a center) is if that players are about the same. I think it will end up being a forward and I hope it happens to be a center or left winger.

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04-13-2005, 10:45 PM
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Ice Cream Man
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I'm hoping we draft a skilled C in the first round, and a defenceman in the second round.

After Phaneuf and Ramholt, there's not many options at D.

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04-13-2005, 11:23 PM
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Do we really need more options, I mean we got good depth not to mention Leopold and Regher are young horses. Phaunef and Ramholt are very young also, and Warner is what 28 years old. Our D is too sikk.

Its time to take some forwards, Kopitar, Burret or O'Marra.

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04-14-2005, 12:01 AM
  #6
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Only one guy stands out to me in that first round who we can practically get (eg. Crosby gone first, and everyone does want him)

ANZE KOPITAR

If we pick 2nd-15th, if he's available GRAB HIM!!!

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04-14-2005, 12:10 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
I'm hoping we draft a skilled C in the first round, and a defenceman in the second round.

After Phaneuf and Ramholt, there's not many options at D.
I don't agree with youl The Flames also have Ritchie Regehr which has progressed nicely and could be a 5/6 defenseman someday. Also have Pardy and Frogren
who are also quite decent. The Flames will need top 6 forwards more than top 4 defenseman in the next few years.

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04-14-2005, 04:07 AM
  #8
Jessie Lumsden
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Patrick - Ritchie Regehr is barely a 5/6 defenceman in the AHL. There's a reason he was an undrafted FA.

As for our first round pick, unless there is someone Sutter really likes available, I don't see us drafting a goalie or defenceman. I think for once we take a chance on a hit or miss flashy top six forward, probably a centre. Just my opinion. I also think we'll trade down if we're picking high, just look at what Sutter did this year, he traded down from 19 to 24 and still got the guy he wanted, and two more in the third round. Pretty shrewd.

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04-14-2005, 10:39 AM
  #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie Lumsden
Patrick - Ritchie Regehr is barely a 5/6 defenceman in the AHL. There's a reason he was an undrafted FA.

As for our first round pick, unless there is someone Sutter really likes available, I don't see us drafting a goalie or defenceman. I think for once we take a chance on a hit or miss flashy top six forward, probably a centre. Just my opinion. I also think we'll trade down if we're picking high, just look at what Sutter did this year, he traded down from 19 to 24 and still got the guy he wanted, and two more in the third round. Pretty shrewd.
You don't watch many Lowell games do you? Right now Ritchie is getting good PP time and top 4 icetime. Just because he wasn't drafted does not mean anything. There are a ton of high end NHL players never drafted : Rhino (from Flames), Rafalski, Belfour and the list goes on. I am not saying that Ritchie will be a high end guy but to say he cannot be a servicable 5/6 defenseman in 4-5 years is absurd. I mean if guys like Commodore can fill in, Ritchie has everything plus Commodore expect the size (which doesn't matter, look at Ference and the other many guys 6' or 5'11" in the NHL). To me it sounds like you have no real idea of Ritchie nor the idea of development and reasons why he did not get drafted. He opted out of the draft.

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04-14-2005, 02:49 PM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie Lumsden
Patrick - Ritchie Regehr is barely a 5/6 defenceman in the AHL. There's a reason he was an undrafted FA.
He wasn't drafted due to heart issues (literal, not figurative). It had little to do with his skill level or potential -- he was rather highly ranked his first year of draft eligeability but decided to opt out. For most of this season in Lowell he has been on the top pairing, and if not there, top three. Don't count this guy out, he's not as big or physical as his brother, but he's a very capable pointman, puck mover and has very good hockey sense (much like Robyn).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie Lumsden
As for our first round pick, unless there is someone Sutter really likes available, I don't see us drafting a goalie or defenceman. I think for once we take a chance on a hit or miss flashy top six forward, probably a centre. Just my opinion. I also think we'll trade down if we're picking high, just look at what Sutter did this year, he traded down from 19 to 24 and still got the guy he wanted, and two more in the third round. Pretty shrewd.
I don't think Sutter would have traded down had the Canadiens not picked Chipchura. I think that's the guy that Sutter was really going for at #18, Chucko was probably 3rd on his list (Nokelainen second? pure speculation) but that move to trade down looks pretty good now.

I do think the Flames are pretty weak in terms of goaltending depth. After McElhinney we've got nothing of note, and Sutter has been raving about Carey Price lately, that guy may be on his short list come draft day. I don't think goaltending depth is crucial at this stage, but I wouldn't mind a goaltender being drafted with a 2nd/3rd pick (obviously trading for a 2nd rounder).

Kenndal McArdle is probably the guy that jumps of the list as a pure Sutter-type. Although his weak performance in the WHL playoffs may hurt his rankings, he could even drop into the early 2nd round. Ryan O'Marra is also intruiging, big guy who knows how to use his size very well (rare thing at 17) and just plows through guys like they're rag dolls.

I really like what I've seen from Marc Staal, although I doubt he'll be available in the second round and I don't think Sutter will take him in the first round.


Last edited by kolanos: 04-14-2005 at 03:09 PM.
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Old
04-14-2005, 03:24 PM
  #11
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We dont have a 2nd rounder so i'm hoping the 30 team lottery goes ahead and the flames end up with a very high pick (top 10? lol.. in my dreams i guess)

nonetheless, this pick needs to be a scoring forward... especially with the NHL talking about how to open up the game and how to let the skilled players score, we'll need more of them and less defensive guys in our system

goal isn't a concern for me right now.. i think we could wait till next year to draft a goalie high

and about richie regehr.. he has played very well (his production slowed a bit at the end) but i dont see him playing for calgary for another 3-4 years... he'll probably be a depth/callup type defenceman till then... we are simply too deep in defencemen

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04-14-2005, 05:14 PM
  #12
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Jessie, I agree wiht you.

Patrick - if you think Regehr is going to be anything more than an occasional call-up (if at all), then you're delusional. He might be having a fine season in the AHL, but so did Micki Dupont, Derrick Walser and others. I'm not saying Regehr's a bust, but don't get your hopes up.

And I will say it again - a scoring C in the 1st round, a decent defenseman in the 2nd round (if we manage to acquire a 2nd round pick).

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04-14-2005, 05:19 PM
  #13
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if the flames get a chance they should draft brule if he's available, that kid has sick skills.

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Old
04-14-2005, 05:48 PM
  #14
kolanos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanrules
if the flames get a chance they should draft brule if he's available, that kid has sick skills.
Brule will go in the top five, easy. He's been a consensus 2nd overall until just recently, I guess the scouts decided to shake things up and started throwing guys like Jackson and Pouliot in his place.

If it's an evenly weighted draft the Flames have a 1 in 6 chance of getting a pick in the top five. Considering the Flames have never had a pick in the top five in their entire drafting history, getting one is well past due -- but it's still pretty unlikely.

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Old
04-14-2005, 06:13 PM
  #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Jessie, I agree wiht you.

Patrick - if you think Regehr is going to be anything more than an occasional call-up (if at all), then you're delusional. He might be having a fine season in the AHL, but so did Micki Dupont, Derrick Walser and others. I'm not saying Regehr's a bust, but don't get your hopes up.

And I will say it again - a scoring C in the 1st round, a decent defenseman in the 2nd round (if we manage to acquire a 2nd round pick).
If Montador and Commodore have the ability to be an extra defenseman/call up at their age of about 24 years old, Ritchie will be there when he is 24 to be the Flames extra defenseman. Hence, why I am saying the Ritchie will have a chance in 3-4 years to be the extra guy. No where did I say he was goign to be anything great.

Using Dupont was a bad example. Ritchie (on my sites, I am using hockey database) is 3 inches taller than Dupont and 10 pounds heavier. And that is 3 years younger, where he can still beef up a bit. You forget to mention how small Dupont truly was, which makes it extremely hard to be a defenseman in the NHL. A 5'9", 180 pound defenseman (Dupont) is very small. Once again, bad example.

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04-14-2005, 06:30 PM
  #16
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The guy who I would love to see the Flames draft is Kendle McArdle, hands down. I think he has top 10 skills and has that Sutter style of play that we love in this organization. If he is available when the FLames pick, I say we come away with a bit of a steal.

Dan Bertram is a bit of a project, but I like his game.

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04-14-2005, 07:02 PM
  #17
Jessie Lumsden
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Patrick - I live about fifteen minutes from Tsongas Arena in Lowell, in North Andover. Hence, I get to see about 20-25 games a year. Where do you live? Alberta? I thought so.

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04-14-2005, 07:58 PM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie Lumsden
Patrick - I live about fifteen minutes from Tsongas Arena in Lowell, in North Andover. Hence, I get to see about 20-25 games a year. Where do you live? Alberta? I thought so.

Just b/c you see the games live doesn't mean you know what your talking about. Not saying you dont know am just making a point. Lots of people watch live hockey but dont know what they are talking about. Look at all the Leaf fans for example..hahaha

Back to the Draft thing.

I think Sutter will grab whoever he thinks is the best at that time despite the position. He could just trade for whatever specific needs the team has or just sign them from that huge list of UFA's.

Personally I hope we get a big Power Center. When was the last time we had a big strong offensive center on the team? Dont say Conroy! I think O'Marra, Brule, Stoa and whoever else might fit the power center mold and the "Sutter" mold.

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04-14-2005, 09:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Using Dupont was a bad example. Ritchie (on my sites, I am using hockey database) is 3 inches taller than Dupont and 10 pounds heavier. And that is 3 years younger, where he can still beef up a bit. You forget to mention how small Dupont truly was, which makes it extremely hard to be a defenseman in the NHL. A 5'9", 180 pound defenseman (Dupont) is very small. Once again, bad example.
Actually it wasn't a bad example. The point I was making is that Dupont is an offensive defenseman, just like Regehr. He's now wasting away in Germany. I don't look too much into offensive flare at the AHL level, sorry. Regehr is no different.

And I'm not sure what database you're looking at, but Regehr is only 1" taller than Dupont. Hockeydb.com and TSN say so.


Last edited by Ice Cream Man: 04-14-2005 at 10:04 PM.
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Old
04-14-2005, 10:28 PM
  #20
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yea, richie regehr has to bulk up quite a bit too if he wants to be a steady defenceman in the NHL

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04-15-2005, 12:39 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man

And I'm not sure what database you're looking at, but Regehr is only 1" taller than Dupont. Hockeydb.com and TSN say so.
What the hell are you talking about?

Richie Regehr is 6 feet tall, Micki Dupont is lucky to reach 5'9.

What hockeydb.com website did you look at?
Regehr
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=46410
DuPont
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=29150

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04-15-2005, 12:46 AM
  #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
What the hell are you talking about?

Richie Regehr is 6 feet tall, Micki Dupont is lucky to reach 5'9.

What hockeydb.com website did you look at?
Regehr
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=46410
DuPont
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/p...id%5B%5D=29150
Relax Peddle. I made a mistake, I admit. I had a brainfart and forgot about the 5'10/5'11 measurements.

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04-15-2005, 05:56 AM
  #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Relax Peddle. I made a mistake, I admit. I had a brainfart and forgot about the 5'10/5'11 measurements.
Wow, I am now debating with someone who can't add measurements....

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04-15-2005, 10:37 AM
  #24
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Well, if the Flames get first pick overall, I'd say go with the best player available ... Crosby!

Otherwise, I'd say go for team need. And we need some top line players with better than average scoring potential. Sutter has now stacked the team with Sutter type players, which is a good thing IMO, but I think it is about time we got a more free-wheeling scoring type first, who then could be convinced to play within the Sutter type system. I think that would allow this player to better capitalize on his offensive abilities when the opportunity arises, and especially on the power play or 4 on 4, while still playing fast-skating tenacious fore-checking within the system. Also, Iginla's free-agency is inching closer, and there is no-one even close to taking his place when we probably lose him (one reason to hope for a very spending controlling CBA so that there is at least a chance we can keep him for the long term).

As for the Richie debate, note that he is the 3rd highest defensive prospect on the list, so I think he will get a call-up sometime in his career, but we've also got larger and offensively productive d-men in Leopold and Phaneuf, plus more balanced dmen in his brother and Lydman, so I think the tendency would be to fill up the rest of the positions with the more defensive types. I'd see him as having less potential long-term than Ference even. Not to say he won't make it, but IMO he hasn't shown enough to warrant beating out any of our current players, almost all of whom are young and destined to be Flames for a few years anyways. Note as well that I believe he was the go-to offensive dman in Lowell, and never put up overly great offensive numbers, although he missed a bit with injuries.

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04-15-2005, 11:27 AM
  #25
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Although than a big, top two line playmaking centre I don't think we have any clear organizational weaknesses. If anything defense might be where we are the thinnest with not many prospects of note outside of Phaneuf and Ramholt.

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