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04-15-2005, 11:48 AM
  #26
Ice Cream Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
Wow, I am now debating with someone who can't add measurements....
Get bent. I had a long, very difficult day at work allthewhile being incredibly sick. Excuse me for my little mistake. But how nice of you to throw it back in face, like an immature ***** that you are. And if you even bothered to read the rest of my post, their heights weren't even what I was mainly arguing. I was talking abou point production for AHL defensemen. But I guess you like try to scrape at anything you can get.

Grow up.

Edit note: That might very well be true, but we still aren't supposed to attempt to circumvent the profanity filter.


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04-15-2005, 03:02 PM
  #27
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Wow, someone needs a "chill pill". Relax much??

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04-15-2005, 11:35 PM
  #28
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People say Alex Bourret but it sounds like he is a fat lil fella, no way will Sutter pick a fat boy. Anze Kopitar seems like a Sutter player, and a scorer, we need him now.

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04-16-2005, 04:30 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Brown
People say Alex Bourret but it sounds like he is a fat lil fella, no way will Sutter pick a fat boy. Anze Kopitar seems like a Sutter player, and a scorer, we need him now.
Kopitar could be this year's Korpikoski. Everyone thinking Sutter has his eyes on him, and come draft day it turns out he's got a completely different list. Sutter clearly doesn't mind the Finns and Swedes since he's traded for 3-4 of them already. But he may not be comfortable drafting them because he can't be more hands-on in their development. If Kopitar was in a similiar position that Seitsonen was last year, I think he'd easily be on the list -- but being more or less forced to leave a prospect's development to an independent system an ocean away doesn't seem to be Sutter's cup of tea.

Yes, yes, I know Kopitar is Slovenian -- but he's in the SEL so BACK OFF!

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04-16-2005, 04:51 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Brown
People say Alex Bourret but it sounds like he is a fat lil fella, no way will Sutter pick a fat boy. Anze Kopitar seems like a Sutter player, and a scorer, we need him now.
It's funny, when a prospect is 180lbs, they say he has to fill out his frame (no matter what size he is often times...). But if he's more than 210lbs he's too fat. If you ask me, 5'10" 214lbs is NHL size, a little bulky for that height, but that's what you want at the NHL level. You gotta be atleast 200lbs to survive playing a physical game like Bourret does.

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04-16-2005, 12:42 PM
  #31
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I have a couple of questions..

first, have you guys seen the 9 rounds mock draft being held in the 'prospects' board of hf? someone drafted ryan parent with the 13th overall pick for calgary... who on earth is ryan parent? i find that pick very strane considering who could have been drafted... but of course this is just a mock draft by some guy so it probably doesn't mean much.. id still like to know who parent is

2nd question is about the gap between brule and crosby.. how large is this gap? i keep getting this strange feeling that this 1-2 pair is kind of like Lecavalier and Legwand (where legwand has been a good NHLer but nothing compared to lecavalier)...
at the same time, people keep raving brule as if these two can be compared to the draft when thornton went first and marleau second overall.. so how close are they?

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04-16-2005, 01:34 PM
  #32
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According to the CSS mid-term rankings, Parent is ranked 7th best North American skater, actually right behind Brule, and right ahead of McArdle. He's a 190 lb, 6'2 defenseman playing for the Guelph Storm. Brule is definetely not the consensus #2 anymore, don't know why.

Looking at Parent's stats he's definetely a stay-at home defenseman, and he shoots left, which we don't need. I'll pass.

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04-16-2005, 01:48 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saillias
According to the CSS mid-term rankings, Parent is ranked 7th best North American skater, actually right behind Brule, and right ahead of McArdle. He's a 190 lb, 6'2 defenseman playing for the Guelph Storm. Brule is definetely not the consensus #2 anymore, don't know why.

Looking at Parent's stats he's definetely a stay-at home defenseman, and he shoots left, which we don't need. I'll pass.
I've read from scouts that the reason Brule's lost his 2nd overall status is due to consistency concerns and his tendency to take bad penalties. Here's hoping he keeps dropping, dropping and dropping down to whatever pick the Flames end up getting -- because this kid is the PERFECT fit for that #1 center we need in our system.

Hope springs eternal.

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04-16-2005, 01:59 PM
  #34
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Brule's production:

October 11GP 4G 11A 15PTS -1+/- 30PIM
November 14GP 9G 7A 16PTS 3+/- 43PIM
December 8GP 5G 4A 9PTS 2+/- 14PIM
January 15GP 8G 14A 22PTS -1+/- 28PIM
February 11GP 7G 4A 11PTS 2+/- 28PIM
March 9GP 4G 6A 10PTS -2+/- 19PIM

He went a little nuts with the penalties at the start of the season and really peaked in production at mid-season -- so you can kind of see what the scouts are talking about.

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04-16-2005, 11:01 PM
  #35
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Hes a WHL player, Sutter would likely take him and work on his game. We have a legitimate shot at a top 10 pick if they use a weighted system. If not then oh well, it seems like a strong draft year for centres. We have our franchise defenceman already, and we got another excellent prospect that could of easily been a 1st rd selection in Tim Ramholt. I wouldnt mind us taking Kohn or someone in the 2nd rd, but our 1st rd pick needs to address our scoring needs in the system.

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04-16-2005, 11:21 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Brown
Hes a WHL player, Sutter would likely take him and work on his game. We have a legitimate shot at a top 10 pick if they use a weighted system. If not then oh well, it seems like a strong draft year for centres. We have our franchise defenceman already, and we got another excellent prospect that could of easily been a 1st rd selection in Tim Ramholt. I wouldnt mind us taking Kohn or someone in the 2nd rd, but our 1st rd pick needs to address our scoring needs in the system.
We don't have a second pick this coming draft.

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04-17-2005, 12:21 PM
  #37
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Guys, just wondering if the draft is still going on this year. I know the league cancelled all draft-weekend activities a few weeks ago, but was the draft itself cancelled?

Something tells me it shouldn't be because it has nothing to do with the contracts or the NHLPA just yet. It is mandated under the CBA, though, and if there is no new agreement in place, how can a draft still be held?

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04-17-2005, 12:56 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cream Man
Guys, just wondering if the draft is still going on this year. I know the league cancelled all draft-weekend activities a few weeks ago, but was the draft itself cancelled?

Something tells me it shouldn't be because it has nothing to do with the contracts or the NHLPA just yet. It is mandated under the CBA, though, and if there is no new agreement in place, how can a draft still be held?
Yeah, I don't know if it can happen without a CBA, perhaps a special side deal between the League and PA could get it to run on schedule?

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04-18-2005, 12:46 AM
  #39
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Well, i think im pretty sure a season will start next year... whether its with the PA or not is a different thing

and if there is a season, there will be a draft (just wont be live and televised)

plus, drafts are easy to hold.. since all 30 teams have done their homework, u just need to book an arena for 2 days and get a bunch of tables, chairs and mikes

it'll even be easier if they hold it via teleconference (thats how they do it in the CFL i think)

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04-18-2005, 06:53 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King_Brown
People say Alex Bourret but it sounds like he is a fat lil fella, no way will Sutter pick a fat boy. Anze Kopitar seems like a Sutter player, and a scorer, we need him now.
Hallelujah, i'm not the only person who realizes he exists! People realize him as a hockey player as they realize Slovenija as a country. The amount of people who say "Slovenija, isn't that a part of Russia" i just want to throttle them!

He is a star player with so much skill and potential! He is a playmaking center, and he's not a small guy either. Sure I don't think he's huge, however a very good option thats for sure! The best in the first round outside Crosby IMHO, but that is biased!

He will adapt well to the North American game, and will be a great number one center for many years for whichever team picks him. Therefore if we don't pick him, we'd be pretty stupid.

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04-18-2005, 08:43 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by calgarylen13
Hallelujah, i'm not the only person who realizes he exists! People realize him as a hockey player as they realize Slovenija as a country. The amount of people who say "Slovenija, isn't that a part of Russia" i just want to throttle them!

He is a star player with so much skill and potential! He is a playmaking center, and he's not a small guy either. Sure I don't think he's huge, however a very good option thats for sure! The best in the first round outside Crosby IMHO, but that is biased!

He will adapt well to the North American game, and will be a great number one center for many years for whichever team picks him. Therefore if we don't pick him, we'd be pretty stupid.
I am definately not as sold on Kopitar as you are, I am not convinced he is a Sutter-type player either. The biggest knock on Kopitar is his skating, I've also read suggestions that his confidence is rather fragile -- I've heard comparisons to Jagr (which spooks me right off the bat). He's big, but he doesn't use his body very well, which is pretty normal for a 17/18 year old but it's a real gamble when there are guys like O'Marra and Bourret out there who not only know how to use their bodies, but they dish it out with reckless abandon. Kopitar depends more on his stickhandling, which is his greatest strength, he apparently can perform needle-point through heavy traffic.

Kopitar no doubt has a great upside, but he's a real project and the questions brought up about him have me really doubting whether he's even being considered by a guy like Sutter. There are certainly safer picks, there are certainly better fits for the Flames'.

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04-18-2005, 02:08 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chriss_co
2nd question is about the gap between brule and crosby.. how large is this gap? i keep getting this strange feeling that this 1-2 pair is kind of like Lecavalier and Legwand (where legwand has been a good NHLer but nothing compared to lecavalier)...
at the same time, people keep raving brule as if these two can be compared to the draft when thornton went first and marleau second overall.. so how close are they?
The gap is HUGE IMO. Brule isn't even close to Crosby. And yes, I've seen both. Brule is not a shoe-in for a top 3 pick.

Crosby is the best junior player I've ever seen. Brule looks like he'll be a 1st/2nd line scorer but he doesn't strike me as a franchise player.

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04-18-2005, 02:09 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
I've read from scouts that the reason Brule's lost his 2nd overall status is due to consistency concerns and his tendency to take bad penalties. Here's hoping he keeps dropping, dropping and dropping down to whatever pick the Flames end up getting -- because this kid is the PERFECT fit for that #1 center we need in our system.

Hope springs eternal.
He doesn't strike me as a prototypical 1st line centre. From watching his game it's obvious he has an elite shot. I think he'd be better suited as a 1st/2nd line winger.

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04-18-2005, 02:10 PM
  #44
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I'd like to know why some people feel that Kopitar is a Sutter player. We have an obvious bias to the WHL. Doesn't mean we won't take a european but I wouldn't bet on it, especially in the 1st round.

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04-18-2005, 05:40 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher
He doesn't strike me as a prototypical 1st line centre. From watching his game it's obvious he has an elite shot. I think he'd be better suited as a 1st/2nd line winger.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think Brule's playmaking abilities are understated, he strikes me more as a power center, reminds me of Langkow but a better offensive upside. If he adds an inch or two to his height he could be a real menace at the NHL level.

Who are your picks in this year's draft?

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04-18-2005, 06:10 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolanos
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I think Brule's playmaking abilities are understated, he strikes me more as a power center, reminds me of Langkow but a better offensive upside. If he adds an inch or two to his height he could be a real menace at the NHL level.

Who are your picks in this year's draft?
I agree somewhat. The way I see Brule is the following. If he peaks and reaches his potential he becomes a Jason Arnott style center (minus the height) but the play is similar. If he doesn't reach that offense, I see a Darcy Tucker style player. A guy that rocks people, pisses them off with his checking and can score 40-50 points a season.

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04-18-2005, 08:05 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Patrick - Flames Fan
I agree somewhat. The way I see Brule is the following. If he peaks and reaches his potential he becomes a Jason Arnott style center (minus the height) but the play is similar. If he doesn't reach that offense, I see a Darcy Tucker style player. A guy that rocks people, pisses them off with his checking and can score 40-50 points a season.
Tucker? Really? I don't see that at all myself, Brule is definately chippy, but I don't see him as much of a pest (like Tucker). The Arnott comparison is a good one, I've noticed some Peca-like elements to his game as well. He fits the Sutter mold very well. Despite his temper, he has some real leadership potential as he matures, possibly a future captain.

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04-18-2005, 08:15 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by kolanos
Tucker? Really? I don't see that at all myself, Brule is definately chippy, but I don't see him as much of a pest (like Tucker). The Arnott comparison is a good one, I've noticed some Peca-like elements to his game as well. He fits the Sutter mold very well. Despite his temper, he has some real leadership potential as he matures, possibly a future captain.
I just see a lot of "past" Tucker in Brule. When I say past tucker I am referring to his Kamloops Blaser days, not his current role in the NHL. I mean back in the day, tucker was a hard hitter who was scoring 130+ points his last 2 seasons in the WHL.

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04-19-2005, 12:59 PM
  #49
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LOL, there's some banter on the Oilers' board about Rita winning the Calder trophy next year.

I don't know what's in that Edmonton water, but it sure has gone to their heads!

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04-20-2005, 12:08 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by kolanos
I am definately not as sold on Kopitar as you are, I am not convinced he is a Sutter-type player either. The biggest knock on Kopitar is his skating, I've also read suggestions that his confidence is rather fragile -- I've heard comparisons to Jagr (which spooks me right off the bat). He's big, but he doesn't use his body very well, which is pretty normal for a 17/18 year old but it's a real gamble when there are guys like O'Marra and Bourret out there who not only know how to use their bodies, but they dish it out with reckless abandon. Kopitar depends more on his stickhandling, which is his greatest strength, he apparently can perform needle-point through heavy traffic.

Kopitar no doubt has a great upside, but he's a real project and the questions brought up about him have me really doubting whether he's even being considered by a guy like Sutter. There are certainly safer picks, there are certainly better fits for the Flames'.
...Safe picks...why does it always have to be about drafting a good 3rd liner who won't ever score more than 15 goals in the modern game? If we want a talented player who has the potential to light up our team, the Kopitar is the man...everyone is constantly complaining about our lack of scoring depth and need of another 1st/2nd line scorer...then it comes to the draft and everyone is looking for a "safe pick". And you also mention better fits for the Flames...shall we draft another defenceman? Shall we draft another Eric Nystrom (a highly touted safe pick who seems unlikely to make an impact in the NHL as a scorer). We need to take risks in this sport if we want to get anywhere, and Kopitar is the right risk to take.

I wasn't the one who said he was a "Sutter type" player, but fact is at the end of the day, a team of Sutter players leaves for little flexibility. Sure it has proven successful in getting us far into th eplayoffs, but that one step we were away from the cup was an ability to score. And we cannot always rely on the Gelinas', etc.'s to score as much due to age. Its time we took a risk on a guy who will likely turn out a great player.

Skating can always be learnt and using size is always something which can develop with age. What one has to remember is coming from a country where hockey isn't so prominent, as Slovenija his skating abilities will never be up to the speed of Canadians who have been born skating. That said, the law of diminuitve return suggests that when he is at an acceptable standard, there are little and fewer improvements to make. So sure, give him a while to learn to improve his skating, but once he has, he will be a phenomenon.

I guess we'll see who gets chosen, but i'd be sad if we didn't get him and he is available, because its one decision we will live to regret (just as passing up Brodeur to get Trevor Kidd)

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