HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

Canucks at the Trade Deadline - Part III

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
03-31-2013, 12:12 PM
  #326
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 14,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
I don't know how you can compare a freak accident like Manny had to what Booth's issues are. We aren't talking about some freakish accident with Booth. he is fragile no other way around it. Look at his history going back to FLA. It really doesn't matter how hard he's being hit, checked or whatever. There are 700 other guys in the NHL who play the same game. Some players get hurt, others do not. Booth is one of the fragile injury prone players. Not sure why you are debating this. Have you actually looked at his history? When does a player stop getting a pass and you start calling like it is?

I wanted to believe in Booth as much as you seem to still do but I am not wasting my time with him any longer. The guy is a bust. I am just glad we didn't give up anything for him so it's really not a bad move. Why do you think we were able to get Booth, a 26yr at the time, for peanuts? Maybe because he has a reputation as being damaged goods? Injury prone?
No, I think we got him for that cost because A) Dale Tallon is an idiot and B) This team puts stock in advanced stats when not every team does. He's also the style of player Gillis seems to want.

I'm well aware of his history. But the only thing that concerns me there was the concussion off the Richards hit. When I look at his 3 injuries here, only 1 can be the result of being injury prone. The groin injury. But then, at the start of seasons, this happens to many players. And it's not recurring so...? The porter hit, and being dragged down from behind is not his fault. Repeat, not his fault. I don't care how hard you want to push a narrative, 10 times out of 10, the player does not and should not get blamed for being a victim of those occurences. All this is, is you being frustrated and giving up on the player needlessly and without sufficient evidence. It's an emotional response, and should be viewed as such.

And for future reference, I've ripped into many players here. Bernier, Grabner, Bieksa being a few. I don't give free passes to players.

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:19 PM
  #327
racerjoe
Registered User
 
racerjoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 1,811
vCash: 500
I think we have to face the fact Raymond has played his way out of our price range. Doesn't matter what you tink of him, he will get paid at a rate that is probably to rich for us.

I am really torn on Booth, I probably like him more than most here, based on what he actually does bring. But at what point do you have to ask yourself can he stay healthy long enough to help? It's a decision I know I have flipped on a bit in my mind.

As for this season, I really don't think this is our year, not with how we are playing. I would not want to give up much, and because of my thoughts on Raymond leaving, would look at all trades involving him. If something can be had for a low pick I would look at it. But thats about it.

racerjoe is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:23 PM
  #328
Bleach Clean
Registered User
 
Bleach Clean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 14,045
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Last Year Raymond was coming back off of a broken-back and had a nice stretch at first but couldn't maintain the pace and got demoted to the 4th line. I'm willing to give him a pass on last year's production.

And sure, Booth can drive to the net well. But if he isn't scoring, for whatever reason, then what's the point.

Raymond is faster, has the better shot, has better on-ice vision/playmaking, is better in every single way except using his size to drive towards the net.

Just because we needed to get bigger doesn't mean we should dump the 2nd best sniper on our team in exchange for some more grit, especially when that grit is overpaid.
First, I doubt Raymond is faster. Booth is a powerful skater himself. Both have plus speed. Much better at using his size. Both in battles and to drive the net. He hasn't converted this year, but Booth has a goal scorers sense as well. Which has netted him goals in the past. The key difference is probably DZone play. And there are other, better defensive wingers on this team, so is his lesser contribution really valued?

Raymond gets cancelled out too easily. What good are his tools if he refuses to exploit defenses with them? I think you'll change your tune once the playoffs roll around. Give it time...

Bleach Clean is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:25 PM
  #329
MikeK
Registered User
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,481
vCash: 14214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
No, I think we got him for that cost because A) Dale Tallon is an idiot and B) This team puts stock in advanced stats when not every team does. He's also the style of player Gillis seems to want.

I'm well aware of his history. But the only thing that concerns me there was the concussion off the Richards hit. When I look at his 3 injuries here, only 1 can be the result of being injury prone. The groin injury. But then, at the start of seasons, this happens to many players. And it's not recurring so...? The porter hit, and being dragged down from behind is not his fault. Repeat, not his fault. I don't care how hard you want to push a narrative, 10 times out of 10, the player does not and should not get blamed for being a victim of those occurences. All this is, is you being frustrated and giving up on the player needlessly and without sufficient evidence. It's an emotional response, and should be viewed as such.

And for future reference, I've ripped into many players here. Bernier, Grabner, Bieksa being a few. I don't give free passes to players.
Fair enough. My apologies if that came across as rude. There are just so many of us here who continue to look at this team through the nucker shades and refuse to see the facts.

Booth will be 29yrs old later this year. There are no surprises coming our way with respects to his game. I see his career going a lot like what it has been the last 3 seasons. Injuries and no real production.

MikeK is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:30 PM
  #330
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
Kitimat Canuck
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,065
vCash: 500
The big issue I see with the Raymond/Booth thing is Raymond's expiring contract and the lowering salary cap. Can we afford to retain him at $4+ million per year? And if not, do we risk losing him for nothing, or entertain offers at the deadline?

Booth may well be a candidate for an amnesty buyout which would change things for sure, but whether or not that happens is up for debate.

Mr. Canucklehead is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:34 PM
  #331
MikeK
Registered User
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,481
vCash: 14214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
The big issue I see with the Raymond/Booth thing is Raymond's expiring contract and the lowering salary cap. Can we afford to retain him at $4+ million per year? And if not, do we risk losing him for nothing, or entertain offers at the deadline?

Booth may well be a candidate for an amnesty buyout which would change things for sure, but whether or not that happens is up for debate.
This is why they need to sign Raymond now or deal him. Simple as that. You can't allow players to walk for nothing unless you are on the cusp of a championship. I fear this team is not. Sign him or deal him. It's that simple.

MikeK is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:34 PM
  #332
LickTheEnvelope
Decertified Poster
 
LickTheEnvelope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 26,070
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Last Year Raymond was coming back off of a broken-back and had a nice stretch at first but couldn't maintain the pace and got demoted to the 4th line. I'm willing to give him a pass on last year's production.

And sure, Booth can drive to the net well. But if he isn't scoring, for whatever reason, then what's the point.

Raymond is faster, has the better shot, has better on-ice vision/playmaking, is better in every single way except using his size to drive towards the net.

Just because we needed to get bigger doesn't mean we should dump the 2nd best sniper on our team in exchange for some more grit, especially when that grit is overpaid.
I'm waiting to see what Raymond does in the playoffs. In the past he usually dissapears.

LickTheEnvelope is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:35 PM
  #333
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,749
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
This is why they need to sign Raymond now or deal him. Simple as that. You can't allow players to walk for nothing unless you are on the cusp of a championship. I fear this team is not. Sign him or deal him. It's that simple.
I wonder if Raymond might have value to a team like New Jersey? They're obviously not full on sellers due to their positioning in the standings, but what if they can't re-sign Clarkson? If they are able to negotiate an extension with Raymond prior to completing a deal with us could we see a Clarkson - Raymond swap?

__________________
May 17, 2014: The day nightlife changes in Vancouver...PM me for details.
y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:38 PM
  #334
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
The big issue I see with the Raymond/Booth thing is Raymond's
expiring contract and the lowering salary cap. Can we afford to retain him at $4+ million per year?
Raymond at $4M? To keep him and Higgins at a measely $3M I had to jettison all of Booth, Ballard and Luongo on ye old CapGeek Calculator...

Is $4M really that likely...? (Asking, not arguing ).

 
Old
03-31-2013, 12:39 PM
  #335
MikeK
Registered User
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,481
vCash: 14214
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
I wonder if Raymond might have value to a team like New Jersey? They're obviously not full on sellers due to their positioning in the standings, but what if they can't re-sign Clarkson? If they are able to negotiate an extension with Raymond prior to completing a deal with us could we see a Clarkson - Raymond swap?
But where does that leave us with Clarkson? I think Raymond has a lot more value then he did a year ago. We could easy get a high pick or decent prospect for him. I really like Clarkson's game but what if he just walks after the season?

MikeK is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:40 PM
  #336
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,749
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
But where does that leave us with Clarkson? I think Raymond has a lot more value then he did a year ago. We going easy get a high pick or decent prospect for him. I really like Clarkson's game but what if he just walks after the season?
Well if we could get a 1st round pick for Raymond I wouldn't be opposed to that either. I just like what Clarkson brings and think this team needs a lot more of that. Would love to target him as a UFA too.

y2kcanucks is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:44 PM
  #337
Bourne Endeavor
Moderator
( _)>⌐■-■ (⌐■_■)
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,300
vCash: 5158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
The big issue I see with the Raymond/Booth thing is Raymond's expiring contract and the lowering salary cap. Can we afford to retain him at $4+ million per year? And if not, do we risk losing him for nothing, or entertain offers at the deadline?

Booth may well be a candidate for an amnesty buyout which would change things for sure, but whether or not that happens is up for debate.
If the organization intends to keep Booth and/or move on from Raymond. I think we have to consider moving him. Even the most diehard of fans has to realize the likelihood of us getting hot is slim and with our shallow prospect pool. This is among the few opportunities we have to get a high pick from an expiring contract.

I am on the fence with retaining Booth. I like his game well enough, but he is far too one dimensional, especially when it comes to offense. Whereas Raymond has made some great strides since last year, Booth is a mirror image of himself and I am not convinced keeping him at his sticker price benefits us.

Should a team calls offering a first for Raymond. I say we take it, buyout Booth and call up Jensen. That kid has some serious potential and I would really like to see him play with the Sedins or Kesler. Look at what Kadri's done with Toronto's best players or how explosive Gallagher has been. It's time we start treating our youth like that.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:44 PM
  #338
EpochLink
Canucks and Jets fan
 
EpochLink's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,925
vCash: 500
Quote:
vancouver canucks president & general manager michael d. Gillis announced today that the canucks have recalled left wings nicklas jensen and bill sweatt. The canucks have also re-assigned forwards zack kassian and andrew gordon
booom!

EpochLink is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:45 PM
  #339
keslerburrows
Registered User
 
keslerburrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vernon, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,642
vCash: 500
Jensen

keslerburrows is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:45 PM
  #340
Pseudonymous
Registered User
 
Pseudonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,498
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EpochLink View Post
booom!
wooooot! but would still like to see kassian up there


wait a second, maybe theyre showcasing ?

Pseudonymous is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:46 PM
  #341
Nuckles
༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ ( ͡ ᴥ͡)
 
Nuckles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Potato
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,460
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Raymond at $4M? To keep him and Higgins at a measely $3M I had to jettison all of Booth, Ballard and Luongo on ye old CapGeek Calculator...

Is $4M really that likely...? (Asking, not arguing ).
Yes, I think it's very likely Raymond gets $3.75-4 mil on his next contract.
He cant be too happy with the Canucks using that cutdown arbitration thing last year, so he'll be looking for a good payday.

Teams overpay in free agency, he knows that.

__________________

Richer's Ghost made my avatar
Nuckles is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:46 PM
  #342
Mr. Canucklehead
Mod Supervisor
Kitimat Canuck
 
Mr. Canucklehead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kitimat, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,065
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
Raymond at $4M? To keep him and Higgins at a measely $3M I had to jettison all of Booth, Ballard and Luongo on ye old CapGeek Calculator...

Is $4M really that likely...? (Asking, not arguing ).
I think on the open market he could get that, yes; he has shown 20-goal, 50-point ability and if guys like David Jones can get that rate, I think he could too. I don't believe Raymond will be entertaining any discounts or favours for us after the cutdown arbitration we took him to.

Mr. Canucklehead is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:46 PM
  #343
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 26,390
vCash: 500
Gillis made the wrong decision by hanging onto Ballard and letting Ehrhoff walk(although matching that contract would've been difficult). Will he do the same thing with Booth/Raymond?

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:46 PM
  #344
keslerburrows
Registered User
 
keslerburrows's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Vernon, Canada
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,642
vCash: 500
Good to see JS stay up as well

Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Jensen-Kesler-Kassian
Raymond-Schroeder-Hansen
Higgins-Lapierre-Torres

Is now my new dream playoff lineup.

keslerburrows is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:48 PM
  #345
Just A Bit Outside
Playoffs??!
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,844
vCash: 50
IMO this team's window for a Cup is done unless something dramatic changes.

Since I don't expect it to, I don't care what they do at the deadline.

Just play out the season, see how far the team goes and do the necessary adjustments in the offseason.

Just A Bit Outside is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:50 PM
  #346
Edler Von Gud
Registered User
 
Edler Von Gud's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Victoria
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,798
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Edler Von Gud
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Gillis made the wrong decision by hanging onto Ballard and letting Ehrhoff walk(although matching that contract would've been difficult). Will he do the same thing with Booth/Raymond?
I'd let both of them go unless one of them has a great playoffs. We can't afford to pay them money to be tweeners. Higgins and Hansen will be third line wingers on this club and we need a definite top 6 winger with our remaining cap room.

Edler Von Gud is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:51 PM
  #347
Dado
Guest
 
Country:
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuckles37 View Post
Yes, I think it's very likely Raymond gets $3.75-4 mil on his next contract.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I think on the open market he could get that, yes; he has shown 20-goal, 50-point ability...
Thanks, guys. I don't see how we can afford him at $4M. I guess the only question then is what can we get for him in the next 2 days?

Right now, it really feels like player management side of the organization has hoisted itself by its own petard.

 
Old
03-31-2013, 12:51 PM
  #348
Pseudonymous
Registered User
 
Pseudonymous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,498
vCash: 500
I wouldn't be surprised to see Pominville & Mark Pysyk join the canucks. If they did make a big trade at the deadline.

Or Clowe.

Pseudonymous is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:51 PM
  #349
MikeK
Registered User
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,481
vCash: 14214
Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
Well if we could get a 1st round pick for Raymond I wouldn't be opposed to that either. I just like what Clarkson brings and think this team needs a lot more of that. Would love to target him as a UFA too.
The team could definitely use a player like Clarkson. If we could get him It might be worth it just to have an early window to talk contracts.

MikeK is offline  
Old
03-31-2013, 12:52 PM
  #350
y2kcanucks
Cult of Personality
 
y2kcanucks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Surrey, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 44,749
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to y2kcanucks
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeK View Post
The team could definitely use a player like Clarkson. If we could get him It might be worth it just to have an early window to talk contracts.
Or how about Raymond + conditional 1st (if Raymond doesn't re-sign) for Clarkson + conditional 1st (if Clarkson doesn't re-sign)?

y2kcanucks is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:39 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.