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Old
04-15-2013, 12:55 AM
  #126
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
Yes, but he is talking about an 18 year old. They could easily grow 2-5 in and once adding muscle mass could get 20-30 lbs.
Yes, I understand, but when was the last time we drafted an under 6' forward that actually made the team?

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04-15-2013, 01:07 AM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
Yes, I understand, but when was the last time we drafted an under 6' forward that actually made the team?
Is 5'11" vs 6' that big of a deal. It's 1 inch.

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04-15-2013, 01:11 AM
  #128
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Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
Is 5'11" vs 6' that big of a deal. It's 1 inch.
Well, if we're drafting a 5'11 forward, then why not a 5'10 forward? And if we're drafting a 5'10 forward, then why not a 5'9 and so on and so on...

I just think Lombardi wants bigger players, and for the type of game we play, I tend to agree.

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04-15-2013, 01:21 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
Well, if we're drafting a 5'11 forward, then why not a 5'10 forward? And if we're drafting a 5'10 forward, then why not a 5'9 and so on and so on...

I just think Lombardi wants bigger players, and for the type of game we play, I tend to agree.
Once you get far enough away it matters. And I do agree that DL seems to like them big. And I know nothing about the player in question but if they fit what the team is looking for and are avail and the best choice. I would hope that 1 inch on a 18 year old wouldn't kill the deal. Since I'm not sure I have seen many 18 year old males that didn't grow at least 1 inch by the time they were 20.

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04-15-2013, 01:32 AM
  #130
The Black1963
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Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
Once you get far enough away it matters. And I do agree that DL seems to like them big. And I know nothing about the player in question but if they fit what the team is looking for and are avail and the best choice. I would hope that 1 inch on a 18 year old wouldn't kill the deal. Since I'm not sure I have seen many 18 year old males that didn't grow at least 1 inch by the time they were 20.
I'm not trying to start an argument nor am I trying to be a smartass here but do you or anyone else know if Kozun, Weal or Moller has grown at least an inch in height since the draft?

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04-15-2013, 01:38 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
Generally speaking, we like our forwards to be bigger.
It's not the size of the forwards, it's how you use them

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04-15-2013, 01:47 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
It's not the size of the forwards, it's how you use them
Dolp!


Last edited by The Black1963: 04-18-2013 at 11:48 PM.
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04-15-2013, 01:53 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Black1963 View Post
I'm not trying to start an argument nor am I trying to be a smartass here but do you or anyone else know if Kozun, Weal or Moller has grown at least an inch in height since the draft?
Kozun was 20 when he signed. Weal was 5'9" when drafted at 19 and is listed at 5'10" on the Monarchs page. And Moller is listed at 5'10" when drafted and 5'11" now. From the info I can find.
So it looks like the younger players have all gained size. And sadly most of the sites are very bad about updating the info so if they have gained more it can be hard to find out without seeing them next to someone you know how big they are.
And those are legitimate questions. I'm not using athletes mostly for my gauge but the fact that both my brother and sister-in-law have taught high school for 15 years and many of the returning students have been seen over the years. And in almost every case a male at 18 will grow some. There are exceptions to the rule but it is not the norm.

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04-15-2013, 08:16 AM
  #134
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There are big Europeans. But if I am correct, we only have 1 swede (moller) and no fins.

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04-15-2013, 08:24 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
Kozun was 20 when he signed. Weal was 5'9" when drafted at 19 and is listed at 5'10" on the Monarchs page. And Moller is listed at 5'10" when drafted and 5'11" now. From the info I can find.
So it looks like the younger players have all gained size. And sadly most of the sites are very bad about updating the info so if they have gained more it can be hard to find out without seeing them next to someone you know how big they are.
And those are legitimate questions. I'm not using athletes mostly for my gauge but the fact that both my brother and sister-in-law have taught high school for 15 years and many of the returning students have been seen over the years. And in almost every case a male at 18 will grow some. There are exceptions to the rule but it is not the norm.
Trouble with using websites is that a lot of teams fudge the numbers a bit to make small guys look bigger. I think the best example of a guy growing is Linden Vey. Was drafted as a 5'10 and people thought that was a stretch and that he may have been more 5'8"-5'9" but since then he's grown a good 2-4 inches and is a legit 6'0" at this point.

Hickey (while not a forward) was another guy that was drafted at ~5'10" with the expectation that he'd grow an inch or two and end up around 6'0".

Quote:
Generally speaking, we like our forwards to be bigger.
I don't know if this really a valid arguement to make when right around half of DL's forwards that he's drafted have been close or under the 6'0" benchmark... While a lot of those players haven't made the Kings roster, for every Garrett Roe, Justin Azevedo, or Brian Cameron, there is a Mike Pelech, or Geordie Wudrick that never made an NHL impact either. There was Moller and Loktionov who are undersized and played a large number of NHL games, and DL hasn't changed his drafting stategy lately, drafting Hyka last year and Weal a couple years ago. He also signed Brian O'Neil last year out of college. He seems like he truly gauges risk versus reward and doesn't tend to let things like a lack of size deter him from making a pick or signing a free agent.

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04-15-2013, 09:28 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ControlPuck View Post
Is there a reason that we don't draft players playing in Sweden and Finland?
Moller and Schumacher say hi.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
It's not the size of the forwards, it's how you use them
I see what you did there.

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04-15-2013, 10:26 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
Kozun was 20 when he signed. Weal was 5'9" when drafted at 19 and is listed at 5'10" on the Monarchs page. And Moller is listed at 5'10" when drafted and 5'11" now. From the info I can find.
So it looks like the younger players have all gained size. And sadly most of the sites are very bad about updating the info so if they have gained more it can be hard to find out without seeing them next to someone you know how big they are.
And those are legitimate questions. I'm not using athletes mostly for my gauge but the fact that both my brother and sister-in-law have taught high school for 15 years and many of the returning students have been seen over the years. And in almost every case a male at 18 will grow some. There are exceptions to the rule but it is not the norm.
I'm sure they're growing, but talk about creative measurements...I'm 5'8", and after seeing Moller in person, if he's listed at 5"10, I'm closer to 6'2".

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04-15-2013, 04:38 PM
  #138
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I genuinly thought we drafted Schumacher from the OHL. Point being there are only 2 notables. I would hope it might change a bit.

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04-15-2013, 04:44 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsanuri View Post
Is 5'11" vs 6' that big of a deal. It's 1 inch.
5'11" vs 6'1" is a big deal. How many skaters do we have shorter than 6'1"?

4: Brown, Voynov, Richardson are 6'0", Richards is 5'11".

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04-15-2013, 05:57 PM
  #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MN14 View Post
I'm sure they're growing, but talk about creative measurements...I'm 5'8", and after seeing Moller in person, if he's listed at 5"10, I'm closer to 6'2".
You are correct in that if Moller is 5'10" then I'm about 6'3"... He's maybe 5'10" on skates but there is no way he is 5'10" off the ice.

Quote:
I genuinly thought we drafted Schumacher from the OHL. Point being there are only 2 notables. I would hope it might change a bit.
Well Moller was actually drafted from Chilliwack in the CHL....


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04-15-2013, 06:08 PM
  #141
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Chilliwack and then on to Hope.

Oh B.C.

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04-15-2013, 06:16 PM
  #142
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No way Brown and Richardson are both 6'0". I am 6'0" even and stood next to Dustin several years ago when he signed BOTH my son's Dustin Brown hockey card and his jersey. He was an inch taller than me. I think he is 6'1" and Richardson is probably 5'11".

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04-15-2013, 08:08 PM
  #143
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Not saying we draft all the players bleow, but they are some I would maybe use 4th-7th round picks on.

Some Finnish players I would like to draft include:
Joose Antonen C[6'2, 179] 1995
Sami Salminen RW[6'5, 201] 1993
Saku Salminen LW/C[6'3, 198] Late 1994
Atte Makinen D[6'3, 205] 1995

Some Swedish players I would like to draft include:
Carl Dahlstrom D[6'4, 212] 1995
Gustav Possler LW/RW[5'11, 186] 1995
Alexander Henriksson RW[6'2, 187] 1995

Other Europeans I would like to have drafted are:
Markus Soberg (Norway, playing in Sweden) RW[5'11, 187] 1995
Tim Bender (Germany) D[6'0, 174] 1995
Matthias Asperup (Denmark) LW[5'10, 168] 1995
Jorgen Karterud (Norway) RW[6'4, 183] 1994

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04-15-2013, 08:22 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by ControlPuck View Post
Is there a reason that we don't draft players playing in Sweden and Finland?
I think we don't have good scouts for Sweden and Finland, hence why the ones we do draft come out of the CHL. Plus Dean seems to prefer NA kids, we draft them most then oddly enough Russians.

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04-15-2013, 09:55 PM
  #145
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I think we don't have good scouts for Sweden and Finland, hence why the ones we do draft come out of the CHL. Plus Dean seems to prefer NA kids, we draft them most then oddly enough Russians.
Well the Kings really only have 2 scouts in all of Europe and Asia as opposed to 6 based U.S.. I'm sure Futa and Yannetti get tape or take a trip once in a while to scout a guy they are really interested in. But it's really just Woodcroft and Ruuttu fulltime, which is a huge amount of ground to cover. Honestly it just doesn't appear to be to big of concern though. Most of the picks the Kings have made out of Europe have been pretty solid.

Whenever this topic comes up I always bring up that if nothing else the Kings seem to be very good at identifying players that have a desire and are dedicated to coming over to North America and try to make the Kings. Even players signed as free agents or obtained in trade like Dravecky, Ersberg, Mikus, and Franson have been willing to come over and adapt to and learn the NA game.

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04-16-2013, 09:52 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ControlPuck View Post
I genuinly thought we drafted Schumacher from the OHL. Point being there are only 2 notables. I would hope it might change a bit.
Your best bet is to see how this compares to other NHL teams. Firstly, how many Fin/Swedes do we pick compared to others, and secondly, how have they panned out compared to other teams selections. There might be a reason DL and co. aren't going to these regions.

I do hope we break the trend somehow this year though and grab Hagg (assuming we get a 1st this year, likely via trading Bernier). I've been touting him for a long while and think he'll be an excellent steal if he falls into the lower third of the first round.

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04-16-2013, 10:07 AM
  #147
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Sweden has produced a boatload of quality young defensemen over the past couple of years:

OEL
Hedman
Karlsson
Brodin
Larsson

and there's more coming

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04-16-2013, 10:16 AM
  #148
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Just FYI, these are the European countries Lombardi has drafted out of since coming to the Kings (keep in mind he's made 55 picks as the Kings GM):

Germany: 1 (Constantin Braun)
Sweden: 2 (Niclas Andersen, Michael Schumacher)
Russia: 4 (Andrei Loktionov, Vyacheslav Voynov, Maxim Kitsyn, Nikolai Prokhorkin)

Of those 7 Europeans, two have been defensemen. Note also that this does not include Europeans who were already playing in the CHL (meaning Hyka, a Czech, and Moller, a Swede).

Since he predominantly drafts out of the CHL, here are the numbers from the junior leagues:
WHL: 11 (8 forwards, 2 defense, 1 goalie)
OHL: 15 (9 forwards, 6 defense)
QMJHL: 7 (2 forwards, 2 defense, 3 goalies)

The other 15 players have come from the NCAA, USHL, the US Training development program, or Minor Junior:

USHL: 5 (2 forwards, 3 defense)
NCAA: 6 (4 forwards, 1 defense, 1 goalie)
USNTDP: 1 (Robbie Czarnik)
NAHL: 1 (Nic Dowd)
BCHL: 1 (Joel Lowry)
QJAHL: 1 (Martin Nolet)

So that's a basic breakdown of Lombardi's draft tendencies. You can see where he puts most of the weight of his draft

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04-16-2013, 10:25 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by King'sPawn View Post
Just FYI, these are the European countries Lombardi has drafted out of since coming to the Kings (keep in mind he's made 55 picks as the Kings GM):

Germany: 1 (Constantin Braun)
Sweden: 2 (Niclas Andersen, Michael Schumacher)
Russia: 4 (Andrei Loktionov, Vyacheslav Voynov, Maxim Kitsyn, Nikolai Prokhorkin)

Of those 7 Europeans, two have been defensemen. Note also that this does not include Europeans who were already playing in the CHL (meaning Hyka, a Czech, and Moller, a Swede).

Since he predominantly drafts out of the CHL, here are the numbers from the junior leagues:
WHL: 11 (8 forwards, 2 defense, 1 goalie)
OHL: 15 (9 forwards, 6 defense)
QMJHL: 7 (2 forwards, 2 defense, 3 goalies)

The other 15 players have come from the NCAA, USHL, the US Training development program, or Minor Junior:

USHL: 5 (2 forwards, 3 defense)
NCAA: 6 (4 forwards, 1 defense, 1 goalie)
USNTDP: 1 (Robbie Czarnik)
NAHL: 1 (Nic Dowd)
BCHL: 1 (Joel Lowry)
QJAHL: 1 (Martin Nolet)

So that's a basic breakdown of Lombardi's draft tendencies. You can see where he puts most of the weight of his draft
Largely, I just scratch off the 2006 draft since that was done about a month after DL took over as GM and he used Taylor's old scouting team, who were promptly dismissed shortly after. 2007 and onward was the Futa and Co. drafts.

So if you removed 2006, you could drop Braun and Andersen from Europe and our one QJAHL pick (and others as well).

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04-16-2013, 10:57 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Dingo View Post
It's not the size of the forwards, it's how you use them
You parted someone's hair with that one.

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