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Old
04-16-2013, 09:33 PM
  #476
Professor John Frink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
Here's hoping that Sami impresses.
I actually hope he is terrible.

That way the Vatanan fan boys simmer down some.

If he plays well and then Fowler and Sbisa come back healthy and Vatanan gets benched the onslaught will be as strong as ever.

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04-16-2013, 09:35 PM
  #477
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Even if he impresses, he'll still be a rookie defenseman. There are always problems with rookies at that position. I think it's important to not let someone else's enthusiasm sour us on a good prospect.

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04-16-2013, 09:37 PM
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I actually hope he is terrible.

That way the Vatanan fan boys simmer down some.

If he plays well and then Fowler and Sbisa come back healthy and Vatanan gets benched the onslaught will be as strong as ever.
What would be funny is if Vatanen sits and Hendry plays.

I just want a win. Don't really care who is involved, to be honest.

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:32 PM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I actually hope he is terrible.

That way the Vatanan fan boys simmer down some.

If he plays well and then Fowler and Sbisa come back healthy and Vatanan gets benched the onslaught will be as strong as ever.
Ridiculous, that is indirectly cheering against the team

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Old
04-16-2013, 10:36 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
In what world are they niche players? They're defensemen, who play defense. A niche player is someone like a face-off specialist, or a PP specialist. Niche players are players you are basically only comfortable using in a small role, and you protect them as much as you can in other roles. I'm not sure you understand the concept of a niche player in the NHL.
some of them don't play it very well however


Quote:
Fowler has been put in a position to succeed and he has, unless you're really going to selectively ignore his play at even strength, and everything else he's brought to the table. That isn't an apples and apples comparison.
I have never said anything against Fowler at ES. he has been fine 5 on 5, but we cannot ignore he has been terrible on the PP either

Quote:
Yes, Vatanen might have more points on the PP, but that isn't really the point, is it? The question is whether Vatanen can be effective beyond the PP. Why do you keep ignoring that point? You just keep going back to the PP, and dismissing the fact that most of a hockey game is played at even strength. There are 60 minutes in a hockey game, and Anaheim would be lucky to get 6 of those minutes with the man advantage.
Yes it is the point, if our PP hadn't sucked so bad lately we might be close to the no.1 seed, or atleast already have the division and the 2 locked up. we're getting no secondary scoring, and you are acting as if Sami won't improve 5 on 5 given a chance, how about we see how he does? Nowhere have I said he should be a lock for the team, only that giving him a look before the playoffs can't hurt, yet some of you are so vociferously against it

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04-16-2013, 10:51 PM
  #481
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Really? Throwing a rookie out there can't hurt when you're trying to secure home ice? That's a new one.

What I'm against is trying him just to try him on the PP, which is all you've proposed.

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04-16-2013, 11:13 PM
  #482
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Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
Really? Throwing a rookie out there can't hurt when you're trying to secure home ice? That's a new one.

What I'm against is trying him just to try him on the PP, which is all you've proposed.
well, i guess we're going to find out if he can help us now. when something is failing you try new things, as opposed to sticking with the same formula

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04-16-2013, 11:23 PM
  #483
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I'd love to see Vatanen get a game.

He's earned it with his AHL play and played decent enough earlier in the year.

Small sample size leads some to say he isn't ready, but what if it's the opposite and this time he shines?

Without opportunity comes no successes.

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04-17-2013, 12:05 AM
  #484
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Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I actually hope he is terrible.

That way the Vatanan fan boys simmer down some.

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04-17-2013, 12:11 AM
  #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I actually hope he is terrible.

That way the Vatanan fan boys simmer down some.

If he plays well and then Fowler and Sbisa come back healthy and Vatanan gets benched the onslaught will be as strong as ever.
Ridiculous. He's a humble kid who's never complained and waited for his chance. Why root against him?


Last edited by AngelDuck: 04-17-2013 at 12:31 AM.
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Old
04-17-2013, 12:20 AM
  #486
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Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Ridiculous. He's a humble kid who's never complained and waited for his chance? Why root against him?
I think (as was actually stated by Frink) its not rooting against him. It's tongue in cheek hoping for an end to the endless calls for a rookie during a cup run by people who seem to not get that he isn't reliable enough overall yet to displace any of the current 7D, and who seem more interested in shiny new toys than in winning the cup.

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04-17-2013, 12:20 AM
  #487
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Root against Vatanen because some people are high on him? GMaB

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04-17-2013, 12:46 AM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I actually hope he is terrible.

That way the Vatanan fan boys simmer down some.

If he plays well and then Fowler and Sbisa come back healthy and Vatanan gets benched the onslaught will be as strong as ever.
You know you are dealing with a no win situation, right? If he scores one goal, we will never hear the end of it. If he fails and looks bad, it won't be his fault and we still won't hear the end of it.

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04-17-2013, 01:31 AM
  #489
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Originally Posted by KEEROLE Vatanen View Post
well, i guess we're going to find out if he can help us now. when something is failing you try new things, as opposed to sticking with the same formula
You realize he wasn't called up to try new things, right? He was called up because we have injuries.

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04-17-2013, 02:00 AM
  #490
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Surprising how much negativity Vatanen has gotten especially from the more experienced posters here.
One or two (finnish) posters have really gone overboard with hyping Vatanen and now most people want their own prospect to fail. Some here will wish him luck but hope he bombs.
I also believe especially defencemen from Europe need time in the AHL but at some point you have to test them and give an opportunity to play against NHL competition. Vatanen will learn more in one NHL game than he will in five AHL games about playing 5-5 in the NHL.
Watching Norfolk in Febuary and March I felt he was not as bad defensively (against AHL talent) as some posters saw him.
In my opinion the Ducks have handled Vatanen perfect so far.

Hopefully he does well and gives the Ducks an option come playoff time.

My main concern is that a Swedish Eenok appears and turns 90% of the writers against Lindholm.

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Old
04-17-2013, 02:50 AM
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uffe Sterner View Post
Surprising how much negativity Vatanen has gotten especially from the more experienced posters here.
One or two (finnish) posters have really gone overboard with hyping Vatanen and now most people want their own prospect to fail. Some here will wish him luck but hope he bombs.
I also believe especially defencemen from Europe need time in the AHL but at some point you have to test them and give an opportunity to play against NHL competition. Vatanen will learn more in one NHL game than he will in five AHL games about playing 5-5 in the NHL.
Watching Norfolk in Febuary and March I felt he was not as bad defensively (against AHL talent) as some posters saw him.
In my opinion the Ducks have handled Vatanen perfect so far.

Hopefully he does well and gives the Ducks an option come playoff time.

My main concern is that a Swedish Eenok appears and turns 90% of the writers against Lindholm.
This is pretty bad situation for him to come and play in shortened season. The playoffs are quickly approaching and Ducks should be more interested in playing the veteran guys. I seriously doubt Vatanen is ready for NHL playoffs.

Vatanen is doing very good this season, is a big part of AHL teams offense and PP. But it`s a little too fast for regular NHL time, imo. He should get much more time next season. Full offseason, training camp, and season should do very good for his NHL chances.

As for those ''hoping Vatanen to fail'', i doubt it was meant serious. Chill out.

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04-17-2013, 03:25 AM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Professor John Frink View Post
I actually hope he is terrible.

That way the Vatanan fan boys simmer down some.

If he plays well and then Fowler and Sbisa come back healthy and Vatanan gets benched the onslaught will be as strong as ever.
And I'd love to see Fowler having another <10 point, 0 goals season, just so everyone can see how overrated he is

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04-17-2013, 04:33 AM
  #493
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I wonder if the situation has gone so bad that there are huge banners in the stands that say "Vatanen, I hope you suck". And everytime Vatanen touches the puck Ducks fans boo. Just so they don't have to hear Vatanen fan boys saying Vatanen is a good hockey prospect and is an ok emergency call up.

When did this discussion become so sick? Did we really let one Eenok troll us to a point where we can't go back to normal discussion on him? One of the best Ducks prospects are getting a call up. It might be good or bad. But at least I would like to be excited about it. And I'm hoping I wouldn't have to see those "**** Vatanen, he sucks" comments, because that is how most d-prospects are before they are ready for NHL and are brought up as an emergency call up. We could be following his improvement step by step instead of following his bad plays and repeating a mantra about how he is the worst player the ducks franchise has seen in it's history. Could I get that, please, my fellow Ducks fans?


Last edited by Hagged: 04-17-2013 at 04:48 AM.
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Old
04-17-2013, 08:02 AM
  #494
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Good god. Of course the statement many of you bolded is ridiculous.

Clearly(or at least I thought it was clear) my comment about Vatanan being terrible was a joke. As a Duck fan I want all prospects to perform. As I have said before I hope he does play well, but I really don't care who does what as long as we win.

But a lot of you prove my point. You have Vatanan blinders on. Anyone criticizes you jump to his defense. People see the point totals in the AHL and they assume that means NHL ready. Plenty of players who score a ton of points in the AHL aren't deemed NHL players. Now I am not saying this is the case here.

What I am saying though is with the Ducks playing well this season, being 2nd in the conference and looking to make some noise come playoff time a kid like Vatanan isn't going to get a shot(unless we have an injury). Enjoy the 5 or 6 games he gets in this year. Because once the defense is healthy he will be back in the AHL again. In fact he will probably be sent down after tonights game so he can be in Norfolk for the big weekend games Norfolk has.

But no need to worry, you will get to see him all next season as he is pretty much penciled in to take Lydman's spot on the roster. Just be patient. There is a reason he spent all season in the AHL, he needed it. But he will get his shot eventually.

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04-17-2013, 08:03 AM
  #495
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I'd like to just say... we are 7th in the PP right now, we were at like 2nd/3rd on the PP at one point.

We still do not ice the PP that was one of the best in the league because of injuries. Fowler was here when it was great, Sbisa, Souray, Allen, Beauch, Lovejoy.

Who is missing from when it was great to now. Bonino. Maybe he is the piece that is missing that throws everything out of sorts, maybe I am wrong but once he is back and they can ice that same PP that started so well, then you can tell if its the defence having issues or there is a hole left by Bonino they couldn't fill.

Not only does Bonino make the 1st pp stronger, it in turn makes the second pp stronger because there is more talent to put out.

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04-17-2013, 08:07 AM
  #496
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While I really like Vatanen and love that he's getting a chance in the NHL, he'd be absolutely destroyed in the PO's, the play is much more physical and nerve wrecking.

I hope he scores a hat trick tonight, but don't expect it and if we end up seeing him in the playoffs, it means something has really gone bad with our team.

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04-17-2013, 08:13 AM
  #497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelDuck View Post
Ridiculous. He's a humble kid who's never complained and waited for his chance. Why root against him?
Give me a break.

Do you know him? Do you talk to him at night about how he should be in the NHL and he just shrugs it off and says "my time will come".

Don't tell me he is humble and never complained because you don't know. He could be calling his agent threatening to leave to go back to Europe for all you know. Since when does not feeling entitled make someone this great person.

And why should he complain in the first place. Getzlaf, Perry, McDonald, Kunitz, Ryan, all spent time in the AHL. It's an important part of their development and it helped them be the players they are today. Vatanan needs the time in the AHL. His NHL time will come it just isn't this year.

I don't know why some posters can't come to terms with that.

Just don't give me this BS about you knowing him and him being so "humble" like that has anything to do with anything.


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04-17-2013, 08:22 AM
  #498
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But a lot of you prove my point. You have Vatanan blinders on. Anyone criticizes you jump to his defense. People see the point totals in the AHL and they assume that means NHL ready. Plenty of players who score a ton of points in the AHL aren't deemed NHL players. Now I am not saying this is the case here.
Nobody assumes he is NHL ready. People think that he is a good choice for an emergency call up. Whether they think that because of his AHL play or not is not important. The important part is that the call up came in a bad time for Vatanen as it would have been better for him to see at least one NHL off season before it happens, as is the case for most defensemen who get their first NHL games.

Most propably he will be terrible, but even when he is, that doesn't mean he won't be able to overcome the problems he now has. He has room to improve, and he has been doing it in the AHL this season already.

Vatanen is a hard working prospect, and I hope that some day he will be able to take a spot in the NHL. And be a force not only in offence but defense too.

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04-17-2013, 08:27 AM
  #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkine View Post
Nobody assumes he is NHL ready. People think that he is a good choice for an emergency call up. Whether they think that because of his AHL play or not is not important. The important part is that the call up came in a bad time for Vatanen as it would have been better for him to see at least one NHL off season before it happens, as is the case for most defensemen who get their first NHL games.

Most propably he will be terrible, but even when he is, that doesn't mean he won't be able to overcome the problems he now has. He has room to improve, and he has been doing it in the AHL this season already.

Vatanen is a hard working prospect, and I hope that some day he will be able to take a spot in the NHL. And be a force not only in offence but defense too.
I'd argue a lot of posters here who come to Sami's defense do assume he is NHL ready now. But I won't get into that as it goes no where. I already regret my tongue in cheek comment earlier as it has hijacked the thread a bit.

As for your last two paragraphs, totally agree with you. Couldn't say it better myself.

My overall issue with people on this board in general is that they have no patience with prospects. They see a small sample size of players come into the league at 19 or 20 and want every prospect to be that way. In fact I could argue that doing that exact thing has hindered Fowler and Sbisa's development(another argument for another time). My overall point through all the Vatanan madness is, he just isn't ready yet for full NHL duty. Especially with the way this team has played this season. Rookie dmen typically don't come in and play on a team that is top 5 in the league. And certainly they don't play if the team is generally healthy and he didn't start the season in the NHL.

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04-17-2013, 08:41 AM
  #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uffe Sterner View Post
Surprising how much negativity Vatanen has gotten especially from the more experienced posters here.
One or two (finnish) posters have really gone overboard with hyping Vatanen and now most people want their own prospect to fail. Some here will wish him luck but hope he bombs.
I also believe especially defencemen from Europe need time in the AHL but at some point you have to test them and give an opportunity to play against NHL competition. Vatanen will learn more in one NHL game than he will in five AHL games about playing 5-5 in the NHL.
Watching Norfolk in Febuary and March I felt he was not as bad defensively (against AHL talent) as some posters saw him.
In my opinion the Ducks have handled Vatanen perfect so far.

Hopefully he does well and gives the Ducks an option come playoff time.

My main concern is that a Swedish Eenok appears and turns 90% of the writers against Lindholm.
You have either not read most of the posters here or you're deliberately dramatizing.

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