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Roster/Trade/Etc Discussion Part VI

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04-22-2013, 01:51 AM
  #601
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Originally Posted by Eddie Shack View Post
I have to think Teemu is done and not returning. If we decide to move Bobby I would think we might want a winger who may score a bit less but play a more complete game. We are still going to need some production there next year.
I think that Palmieri is a good replacement for Teemu. The bigger problem with moving Ryan is that there is no one to replace him at LW.

Etem may have the work ethic, but the IQ isn't there yet. Most of what he creates are lower probability scoring chances than what Ryan creates; albeit Bobby has no finish this year which is why he's a trade candidate.

Maroon doesn't have the skating for a top nine role.

Winnik has poor offensive instincts.

We don't have anyone down in Norfolk or elsewhere that is even close to competing for a spot next season.

I think Boudreau was right when he said last summer that the center problem is going to be fixed by waiting, and that the bigger issue was that we needed another LW.

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04-22-2013, 02:16 AM
  #602
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Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
I think that Palmieri is a good replacement for Teemu. The bigger problem with moving Ryan is that there is no one to replace him at LW.

Etem may have the work ethic, but the IQ isn't there yet. Most of what he creates are lower probability scoring chances than what Ryan creates; albeit Bobby has no finish this year which is why he's a trade candidate.

Maroon doesn't have the skating for a top nine role.

Winnik has poor offensive instincts.

We don't have anyone down in Norfolk or elsewhere that is even close to competing for a spot next season.

I think Boudreau was right when he said last summer that the center problem is going to be fixed by waiting, and that the bigger issue was that we needed another LW.
Well, if we limit it to LW only that obviously narrows it down. But I think that would be a priority in any trade involving Bobby. I just wouldn't trade him for a D man at this point in time.

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04-22-2013, 02:31 AM
  #603
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I guess that I agree, though there are a few defenseman that would make me consider it.

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04-22-2013, 12:38 PM
  #604
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What about that new college kid, laganarieeierere

Could he fill a 2nd line role next year? Or is that to much to early.

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04-22-2013, 01:15 PM
  #605
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Originally Posted by douglast5 View Post
What about that new college kid, laganarieeierere

Could he fill a 2nd line role next year? Or is that to much to early.
Undrafted college kids rarely pan out nowadays, even the Hobey Baker winners. We have a lot of talented young players ahead of him on the depth chart, I'd say it would be a surprise if he cracks the fourth line at any point next season.

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04-22-2013, 01:33 PM
  #606
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Undrafted college kids rarely pan out nowadays, even the Hobey Baker winners. We have a lot of talented young players ahead of him on the depth chart, I'd say it would be a surprise if he cracks the fourth line at any point next season.
My approach these days is never count on ANY young player to be in your lineup until you are well and truly convinced you know what he is (usually after 2-3 seasons). We've all seen hyped high first round blue-chippers completely bomb, or guys with promising NHL auditions fizzle out within a year or two.

I mean, who'd have thought Chistov would completely regress into a scrub after a promising 1st year? Or that McMillan couldn't even earn a checking line role after looking like a nice role player in his first opportunity? And that's guys who actually stuck in the NHL for a while, never mind guys who haven't even played a single NHL game yet. If you can't absolutely count on the former, you sure as hell shouldn't pin your hopes on the latter.

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04-22-2013, 02:58 PM
  #607
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Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
My approach these days is never count on ANY young player to be in your lineup until you are well and truly convinced you know what he is (usually after 2-3 seasons). We've all seen hyped high first round blue-chippers completely bomb, or guys with promising NHL auditions fizzle out within a year or two.

I mean, who'd have thought Chistov would completely regress into a scrub after a promising 1st year? Or that McMillan couldn't even earn a checking line role after looking like a nice role player in his first opportunity? And that's guys who actually stuck in the NHL for a while, never mind guys who haven't even played a single NHL game yet. If you can't absolutely count on the former, you sure as hell shouldn't pin your hopes on the latter.
But it's not a total crap shoot either. Some kids you get a pretty good read on like Palmieri, Holland, Fowler, Etem. Granted those are all first rounders but that's part of my point. It's hard for a solid prospect to slip through two drafts. We've seen a lot of undrafted college free agents go nowhere. If e had been a second round pick I might be a little excited but I fear he'll fall in the same path as Ryan Lasch or Ryan Dingle.

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04-22-2013, 10:19 PM
  #608
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
But it's not a total crap shoot either. Some kids you get a pretty good read on like Palmieri, Holland, Fowler, Etem. Granted those are all first rounders but that's part of my point.
So was Chistov. No one is immune from flaming out. In the end, there's no substitute for more data, and as much as we'd all like to think we have some magical eye for scouting, the reality is that even one full season in the NHL isn't necessarily all that much to go on. Two seasons, maybe you start talking about a guy as a fairly solid bet to keep doing what he's doing.

But there's a long long list of guys who burst onto the scene and later fizzled. I mean, how good a read did you have on, say, Jimmy Carson when he was a 50 goal scorer by his 2nd season? I doubt too many people figured on him having the rest of his career go the way it did.

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04-23-2013, 10:52 AM
  #609
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Originally Posted by mmbt View Post
So was Chistov. No one is immune from flaming out. In the end, there's no substitute for more data, and as much as we'd all like to think we have some magical eye for scouting, the reality is that even one full season in the NHL isn't necessarily all that much to go on. Two seasons, maybe you start talking about a guy as a fairly solid bet to keep doing what he's doing.

But there's a long long list of guys who burst onto the scene and later fizzled. I mean, how good a read did you have on, say, Jimmy Carson when he was a 50 goal scorer by his 2nd season? I doubt too many people figured on him having the rest of his career go the way it did.
Okay some players unexpectedly burnout but what you're suggesting is that no one can tell how a player is going to turn out. That's completely wrong. Of course we have a good idea how most players are going to turn out based on when and/or if they were drafted. Half the league is comprised with players taken in the first two rounds of the draft because scouts can tell those will be the players that make it in this league.

Post-lockout we've had exactly one non-goalie undrafted free agent signing that amounted to anything and it was barely anything (Ryan Carter). Most of our mid and late round picks have become nothing as well as all of our college free agents besides Carter. The stats just aren't in this kid's favor and your rationale has nothing to do with it.

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04-23-2013, 01:16 PM
  #610
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
Okay some players unexpectedly burnout but what you're suggesting is that no one can tell how a player is going to turn out. That's completely wrong. Of course we have a good idea how most players are going to turn out based on when and/or if they were drafted. Half the league is comprised with players taken in the first two rounds of the draft because scouts can tell those will be the players that make it in this league.

Post-lockout we've had exactly one non-goalie undrafted free agent signing that amounted to anything and it was barely anything (Ryan Carter). Most of our mid and late round picks have become nothing as well as all of our college free agents besides Carter. The stats just aren't in this kid's favor and your rationale has nothing to do with it.
You've only got half the story there. Basically what you just said is that being picked high is a prerequisite, but not a predictor of success.

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04-23-2013, 02:42 PM
  #611
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You've only got half the story there. Basically what you just said is that being picked high is a prerequisite, but not a predictor of success.
What I was suggesting was that being drafted(or not drafted) and where is a good indicator for expectations on a player. There's a lot more people in this league that we're right about than wrong about. A 22 year-old undrafted college free agent historically isn't likely to make the jump. Based on what I've seen of this kid I'm led to believe he fits that assumption.

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04-23-2013, 02:58 PM
  #612
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Originally Posted by TheJoeMan View Post
What I was suggesting was that being drafted(or not drafted) and where is a good indicator for expectations on a player. There's a lot more people in this league that we're right about than wrong about. A 22 year-old undrafted college free agent historically isn't likely to make the jump. Based on what I've seen of this kid I'm led to believe he fits that assumption.
I agree an undrafted UFA isn't likely to do much anymore. I mentioned it in his signing thread, where I thought that the college ranks are better scouted now so there aren't as many undrafted gems.

But mmbt's point was more on the other half. Even players who have the pedigree fail. 50% of first rounders, actually.

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04-23-2013, 11:43 PM
  #613
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But mmbt's point was more on the other half. Even players who have the pedigree fail. 50% of first rounders, actually.
Exactly. Granted, higher draft picks succeed more often, but even early success is no guarantee that the success will continue.

All I'm saying is, don't count too much on ANY player until he's proven he can do it year after year. Doesn't matter what his draft position is.

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04-24-2013, 12:26 PM
  #614
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Per Ducks' website:

The Ducks have recalled right wing Devante Smith-Pelly, goaltender Frederik Andersen and left wing Patrick Maroon from the Norfolk Admirals, Anaheim’s primary development affiliate in the American Hockey League (AHL). In addition, the Ducks have reassigned goaltender Igor Bobkov to Norfolk.

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04-24-2013, 01:10 PM
  #615
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Per Ducks' website:

The Ducks have recalled right wing Devante Smith-Pelly, goaltender Frederik Andersen and left wing Patrick Maroon from the Norfolk Admirals, Anaheim’s primary development affiliate in the American Hockey League (AHL). In addition, the Ducks have reassigned goaltender Igor Bobkov to Norfolk.
well thats weird.. no Holland? or the new studs we signed.. sarault/loganierre (awful spelling hahaha)

hope we'll see DSP and Maroon back in the lineup before seasons end. we shoudl rest some of our big boys


Last edited by bumperkisser: 04-24-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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04-24-2013, 01:38 PM
  #616
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well thats weird.. no Holland? or the new studs we signed.. sarault/loganierre (awful spelling hahaha)

hope we'll see DSP and Maroon back in the lineup before seasons end. we shoudl rest some of our big boys
We do have a lot of players here already. But maybe we will call more up once we're back home. Also the Ducks have Laganiere listed on the roster already though I doubt he'll play.

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04-24-2013, 01:43 PM
  #617
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Wow you guys are stacked in G!

Getting re-drafted has to be one of the most annoying choices Andersen has ever made in hindsight!

You guys must be looking to get rid of at least 1. IMO you have 4 potential NHL starters in your crop.

Who do you guys see going? Andersen could be good tradebait in a package?

Id love to trade off Luongo in a package with one of Lehner/Anderson/Gibson/Andersen.


Last edited by ImGoingNucks: 04-24-2013 at 01:50 PM.
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04-24-2013, 01:56 PM
  #618
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So since we are stacked with goalies...we should acquire another one? Seems legit.

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04-24-2013, 01:59 PM
  #619
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Wow you guys are stacked in G!

Getting re-drafted has to be one of the most annoying choices Andersen has ever made in hindsight!

You guys must be looking to get rid of at least 1. IMO you have 4 potential NHL starters in your crop.

Who do you guys see going? Andersen could be good tradebait in a package?

Id love to trade off Luongo in a package with one of Lehner/Anderson/Gibson/Andersen.
if we traded a goalie because we have too many goalies, it would not be for another goalie, makes no sense.

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04-24-2013, 02:05 PM
  #620
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Not weird at all if you saw the last three games of the season for Norfolk. Looks like he is being sent a very strong message about playing hard no matter what league you are in. That Norfolk team came a long long way back to find themselves in the playoffs with three games left and their fate in their own hands. It was a much better team without holland, etem and palmari and when holland got sent back the final weekend of the season, he did absolutely nothing and even worse, he didn't even compete.
Others guys have been thru that and the first thing they look at is, how you handle it as a pro. Sulk and you could get buried.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bumperkisser View Post
well thats weird.. no Holland? or the new studs we signed.. sarault/loganierre (awful spelling hahaha)

hope we'll see DSP and Maroon back in the lineup before seasons end. we shoudl rest some of our big boys

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04-24-2013, 02:05 PM
  #621
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Those guys we signed weren't expected to jump in and fill spots in our line-up immediately. I liked most of the ones I saw, but none of them looked ready for an NHL stint just yet.

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04-24-2013, 02:06 PM
  #622
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if we traded a goalie because we have too many goalies, it would not be for another goalie, makes no sense.
I never said it had to make any sense I said id love for it to happen.

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04-24-2013, 02:09 PM
  #623
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Id love to trade off Luongo in a package with one of Lehner/Anderson/Gibson/Andersen.
I'm sure you would

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04-24-2013, 02:26 PM
  #624
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Those guys we signed weren't expected to jump in and fill spots in our line-up immediately. I liked most of the ones I saw, but none of them looked ready for an NHL stint just yet.
i wasn't thinking they'd get an NHL stint. just some practice time with the big boys

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04-24-2013, 02:48 PM
  #625
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i wasn't thinking they'd get an NHL stint. just some practice time with the big boys
I think there's a transfer limit until the regular season ends.

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