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Old
04-15-2013, 12:54 PM
  #176
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I got a good idea. This might not work because everyone interprets things differently. Is anyone down for tracking every goal Marty gives up the rest of the season, and deciding if it was soft or at the very least something he could have had a chance to stop? The In Lou We Trust blog has been tracking it for 3 years now. I know FMASC just looks at his stats. How can you blame either goal against Ottawa on him? Cause he gave up 2 goals on 11 shots? Suppose the other team took 12 more shots on him, and therefore he gave up 2 goals on 23 shots. Leaving him with a 913 save percentage which is close to average. Would you just pardon the two goals he gave up? Are you just not pardoning them because he left the game with an 818 save percentage?

Do you find yourself watching the game and saying ''Man Marty needed to make that save'' Or do you just look at the shot count, and say ''Wow 817 save percentage? This was a horrible game'' Talk about bad luck how many times have we seen a goal go past Marty that deflected off a skate recently? It happens every other game. If you think he should have stopped that then you clearly have not played goalie. No goalie in the league is gonna stop that unless it hits them or unless it's one of these blimps that wears so much equipment, and takes up so much space that it hits them.

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04-15-2013, 01:09 PM
  #177
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Here's my beef with the whole "defensive breakdowns" argument. Every single team has defensive breakdowns. I'm not so sure that the Devils of the past 3 years have had any more breakdowns than the average NHL team. Yet Marty continues to have below average numbers. A good goalie is supposed to make the D look better than it is, not the other way around.

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04-15-2013, 01:10 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
oh, i wasnt aware. nevermind, case closed. he sucks
I never said he sucks.

but he has not been good overall.

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04-15-2013, 01:11 PM
  #179
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And might I add, the last goal given up in game 7 of the 09 series against Carolina...that's just brutal. That was Marty's "jump the shark" moment. You can't give up a standard wrister from the wing with 80 seconds left in a tied game 7. I don't care how bad the defensive coverage is.

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04-15-2013, 01:24 PM
  #180
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Cannot believe people are going to hang these two goals on Marty. A deflection a foot away from him making the save and then a two on none breakaway?



next up: every time Marty has to make a great diving save, it's because he's so out of position

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04-15-2013, 01:25 PM
  #181
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Originally Posted by guitarguyvic View Post
And might I add, the last goal given up in game 7 of the 09 series against Carolina...that's just brutal. That was Marty's "jump the shark" moment. You can't give up a standard wrister from the wing with 80 seconds left in a tied game 7. I don't care how bad the defensive coverage is.
How about blaming the entire team for breaking down? Maybe you didn't watch the whole series, but Marty is the only reason that series makes it to 7 games. If not for him that series is done in game 5.

Oh and how about the Stanley Cup Finals that he's since played in since that ''Jump the shark'' moment in 09? He didn't redeem himself with that?

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04-15-2013, 01:27 PM
  #182
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some of you guys are so defensive.

I love marty like all of you. but hes 41 and not close to an elite goalie anymore. thats just the facts, as hard as they are to take.

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04-15-2013, 01:30 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
some of you guys are so defensive.

I love marty like all of you. but hes 41 and not close to an elite goalie anymore. thats just the facts, as hard as they are to take.
I'm not saying he is, but people don't even talk about bad goals he's given up. They just talk about save percentage. How does he stop either goal in the last game? Boston yeah he deserves some of the blame there. The last two goals were definitely stoppable from what I remember.

Then you got one guy talking about some crappy goal he gave up 4 years ago. He's since won a Jennings Trophy, and had an incredible playoffs just last year to make up for however many years he was subpar during the playoffs. That guy may as well bring up Marty in the 2001 SCF while he's at it, and how bad he was then.

Our team playing a heavy forechecking style is prone to giving up odd man breaks too. It happens a few times per game, but usually the shooters hit the glass. Marty is also the reason that the shots are so low with his stickhandling. This hurts his save percentage. 10 of the 25 games he's played this year we've allowed less than 20 shots. While Hedberg hasn't played a game this year where he only faced 20 shots not including the two games that he did not complete.

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04-15-2013, 01:31 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
How about blaming the entire team for breaking down? Maybe you didn't watch the whole series, but Marty is the only reason that series makes it to 7 games. If not for him that series is done in game 5.

Oh and how about the Stanley Cup Finals that he's since played in since that ''Jump the shark'' moment in 09? He didn't redeem himself with that?
Marty had a great run with the team last playoffs no doubt about that. But that is the only time over the last 3 years that he has consistently played well.

I watched every minute of that 09 series. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people say "without Marty we would not have gotten this far". Well that depends on who we would be replacing Marty with does it not? You don't think we would have gotten to game 7 of that series if we had any other top notch goalie in the league? I would say that if we did have a top 5 goalie in the league for that series, not only do we get to game 7 but have a better chance of winning it.

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04-15-2013, 01:34 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I'm not saying he is, but people don't even talk about bad goals he's given up. They just talk about save percentage. How does he stop either goal in the last game? Boston yeah he deserves some of the blame there. The last two goals were definitely stoppable from what I remember.

Then you got one guy talking about some crappy goal he gave up 4 years ago. He's since won a Jennings Trophy, and had an incredible playoffs just last year to make up for however many years he was subpar during the playoffs. That guy may as well bring up Marty in the 2001 SCF while he's at it, and how bad he was then.

Our team playing a heavy forechecking style is prone to giving up odd man breaks too. It happens a few times per game, but usually the shooters hit the glass. Marty is also the reason that the shots are so low with his stickhandling. This hurts his save percentage. 10 of the 25 games he's played this year we've allowed less than 20 shots. While Hedberg hasn't played a game this year where he only faced 20 shots not including the two games that he did not complete.
I don't bring up 2001 because him performing below average in that series was the exception to the norm at that point in his career.

At this point in his career, Marty's above average performance in last year's playoffs is now the exception. Total oppossite.

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04-15-2013, 01:37 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by guitarguyvic View Post
Marty had a great run with the team last playoffs no doubt about that. But that is the only time over the last 3 years that he has consistently played well.

I watched every minute of that 09 series. One of my biggest pet peeves is when people say "without Marty we would not have gotten this far". Well that depends on who we would be replacing Marty with does it not? You don't think we would have gotten to game 7 of that series if we had any other top notch goalie in the league? I would say that if we did have a top 5 goalie in the league for that series, not only do we get to game 7 but have a better chance of winning it.
You're out of your mind. Game 5 of Carolina was the best game he's ever played since 03. The only others that come close are game 7 vs Florida, game 6 against the Rangers, and games 4 and 5 of the SCF. You think POS Scott Clemmensen would have gotten us to game 7? He would have crumbled in game 5, and gave up at least 6 goals I would have guaranteed.

Brodeur had a 920 save percentage from last years all star break all the way until he got injured this year. That's including the last 28 games of last year, all of last years playoffs, and the first 13 games of this year. That's a sample size of 66 games. Not too much fewer than the 70 something game analysis feed me a stray stat brought up last year when talking about how awful he played when he made the ''Devils seriously need to consider sitting Brodeur'' thread.

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04-15-2013, 01:39 PM
  #187
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anyone who thinks he should sit is delusional considering the other option behind him.

that doesn't mean hes playing well.

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04-15-2013, 01:42 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
anyone who thinks he should sit is delusional considering the other option behind him.

that doesn't mean hes playing well.
That was a thread that was made less than halfway through last season. He was playing fine until the injury. One of his best starts since before the 04-05 lockout I'd say. Which is very surprising because in October he usually looks very rusty, and I'm sure his October stats since then indicate that too.

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04-15-2013, 01:51 PM
  #189
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While we're piling on MB, I remember another time when he let in a weak wraparound goal to a French Canadian journeyman in double OT to lose an important playoff series. I was on record saying he sucked then. (of course this was before I knew of the interwebs, but I swear somebody must have heard me say it).

Seriously though, the 2013 Brodeur is not the same guy who was winning Vezina's, etc., but he's certainly not the reason we suck this year.*



[* I mean not the reason "our record sucks", since the advanced stats say we don't suck.]

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04-15-2013, 01:56 PM
  #190
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While we're piling on MB, I remember another time when he let in a weak wraparound goal to a French Canadian journeyman in double OT to lose an important playoff series. I was on record saying he sucked then. (of course this was before I knew of the interwebs, but I swear somebody must have heard me say it).

Seriously though, the 2013 Brodeur is not the same guy who was winning Vezina's, etc., but he's certainly not the reason we suck this year.*



[* I mean not the reason "our record sucks", since the advanced stats say we don't suck.]
There's only 5 more teams in the east that have given up less goals than we have. Before Marty was injured he had the 6th best even strength save percentage in the league. The Marty of the first 13 games was much better than the Marty of the last 12 or 13 games. No one in the league has scored less than us. Because the team allows so few shots on net when Brodeur is in (Mainly because of his stickhandling) his save percentage suffers.

The 94 ECF winner went off of Fetisov's skate so it wasn't his fault, but I do remember the weak wrap around from Adam Graves in game 5 of the 97 Rangers series. I think Marty took as much **** for that one at the time as he did in game 7 of the Carolina series in 09.

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04-15-2013, 01:58 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
some of you guys are so defensive.

I love marty like all of you. but hes 41 and not close to an elite goalie anymore. thats just the facts, as hard as they are to take.
and this is the problem. God forbid you say that marty isnt the reason for our woes, and suddenly youre a marty apologist and we have to get over it and hes 41 and blah blah. Youre taking it way too far the other way. We all understand hes not 30 year old marty, we get it. but hes not the main issue here, and if he is, youre just wrong, flat out

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04-15-2013, 01:59 PM
  #192
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You're out of your mind. Game 5 of Carolina was the best game he's ever played since 03. The only others that come close are game 7 vs Florida, game 6 against the Rangers, and games 4 and 5 of the SCF. You think POS Scott Clemmensen would have gotten us to game 7? He would have crumbled in game 5, and gave up at least 6 goals I would have guaranteed.

Brodeur had a 920 save percentage from last years all star break all the way until he got injured this year. That's including the last 28 games of last year, all of last years playoffs, and the first 13 games of this year. That's a sample size of 66 games. Not too much fewer than the 70 something game analysis feed me a stray stat brought up last year when talking about how awful he played when he made the ''Devils seriously need to consider sitting Brodeur'' thread.
OK one thing at a time. First off, why are comparing him to Scott Clemmensen? I said replacing him with another top notch goalie in the league...I think you and I both know that Scott doesn't quality. Come on now.

Second, you can pick and choose different time periods and sample sizes all you want. But we have sample size of 4 freaking seasons to show that he has been inconsistent and below average, maybe average at best during that time span.

Third, I would never say we need to seriously consider sitting Brodeur because even at average he is better than the alternative. That has indeed been the case during the last 4 years.

And lastly, I'm not usually too fond of your propensity to give everyone you don't like a lukewarm humored nickname, however, referring to FMASC as "Feed Me a Stray Stat" is quite funny. (And for the record, I like most of your posts FMASC).

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04-15-2013, 02:00 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
and this is the problem. God forbid you say that marty isnt the reason for our woes, and suddenly youre a marty apologist and we have to get over it and hes 41 and blah blah. Youre taking it way too far the other way. We all understand hes not 30 year old marty, we get it. but hes not the main issue here, and if he is, youre just wrong, flat out
who said he was the main issue? I don't see anyone claiming that.

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04-15-2013, 02:05 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by MartyOwns View Post
and this is the problem. God forbid you say that marty isnt the reason for our woes, and suddenly youre a marty apologist and we have to get over it and hes 41 and blah blah. Youre taking it way too far the other way. We all understand hes not 30 year old marty, we get it. but hes not the main issue here, and if he is, youre just wrong, flat out
Well the problem with most posters' analysis is that there is a "main issue". There is no one or two main issues with this team. It's really a whole bunch of problems, that if taken isolated would only look minor, but once they are put together lead to what has happened this season. And one of the those minor issues is this team's goaltending.

When you have average D (at best) you cannot also have an average goaltender, because then that makes your D just bad overall. You have a have a goalie that will help hide your team's defensive deficiencies (which every team does have to varying degrees).

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04-15-2013, 02:07 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
The 94 ECF winner went off of Fetisov's skate so it wasn't his fault, but I do remember the weak wrap around from Adam Graves in game 5 of the 97 Rangers series. I think Marty took as much **** for that one at the time as he did in game 7 of the Carolina series in 09.
Funny, I don't think I ever saw the reverse angle of that play, showing the deflection. I turned off the TV, hurled the remote into the wall, and vowed never to watch that **** again.

The Graves wraparound was weak, but that series was out of hand at that point anyway.

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04-15-2013, 02:11 PM
  #196
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I find it ironic that in a stats thread people are saying he's 41 when he's 40.

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04-15-2013, 02:14 PM
  #197
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The only goaltender who would have taken the Devils to 7 games that Carolina series other than Marty was probably Tim Thomas. Did you see what happened to Lundqvist that playoff year? Even the SCF goalies (Osgood and MAF LOL ) had an easier time in their series's than Marty did in the Carolina series.

And Marty has been below average for 3 years not 4. He won the Jennings Trophy in 09-10. Since that season he hasn't had a healthy year yet.

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04-15-2013, 02:30 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by Zajacs Bowl Cut View Post
who said he was the main issue? I don't see anyone claiming that.
ok you didnt say he sucks, someone said he stinks. hes not the main issue, see: FMASC. whatever man, think what you want

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04-15-2013, 02:37 PM
  #199
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The main issue is that we're the lowest scoring team in the league. We're now taking more shots than we were when we were actually scoring. I've watched the Panthers and Hurricanes inflate up the shot count to 35 and even 40-45+ in the Hurricanes case. They usually don't score cause their offense sucks. Well maybe not so much the Hurricanes they should be better.

I think we were like 26th in the league earlier in the year before the implosion. Now we're almost into the top 15. Last year I think we were 28th or 29th in shots for during the regular season. God forbid though I bring up the Prudential Center shot counter. The shot counters have been screwing with Marty's save percentage for years, and even in the old building. One year I remember an identical amount of games, and minutes played at home and on the road. Though somehow he faced like 100 or more shots in those road games.

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04-15-2013, 02:42 PM
  #200
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The main issue is that we're the lowest scoring team in the league.
you could have stopped posting after that sentence and still been the smartest guy in the thread. no scarcasm

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