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Joe Pavelski to Vancouver

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Old
04-01-2013, 02:39 AM
  #76
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
As a Canuck fan, this is why people hate Canuck fans.

Pavelski's a dynamite hockey player. If I had him on my team, I wouldn't trade him, much less for our spare crap.
Same, I'm with you and Stinger.

Ugh this is just embarrassing the Proposal is horrible, but alot of the comments afterword aren't much better.

No reason for a Kesler/Pavelski debate to have happened either.

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04-01-2013, 03:00 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Same, I'm with you and Stinger.

Ugh this is just embarrassing the Proposal is horrible, but alot of the comments afterword aren't much better.

No reason for a Kesler/Pavelski debate to have happened either.
If you think this proposal is so bad why don't you try and come up with something better?

Pavelski was brought up in the Canucks section too, but the offers were much worse than what I proposed.

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:01 AM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
If you think this proposal is so bad why don't you try and come up with something better?

Pavelski was brought up in the Canucks section too, but the offers were much worse than what I proposed.
The majority of Sharks' fans are not interested in trading Pavelski to Vancouver. An impact player like him is not someone you trade within your division.

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:04 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Brent Burns View Post
I've seen you in the other threads where Sharks fans have told Canucks fans how much we domt want or need Raymond. Please stop trying to peddle him to us. Pavelski is a damn good second line center, you would have to drastically overpay to get him considering we're inter conference and division rivals next year
Way to pull stuff out of your ass just to try and insult me. I haven't posted on this site in months up until today

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:10 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
How is Kesler more versatile than Pavelski? Pavelski can play wing or center, play with top-end players like Marleau and Pavelski or scrubs like Mitchell and Wellwood. There are very few players more versatile than Pavelski.

The only things that Kesler has over Pavelski is size and speed, but Pavelski is smarter and more importantly has the ability to stay healthy for more than a dozen games at a time. Added that Pavelski has a better contract, and their value is nearly identical. And I guarantee you that if Sharks fans offered Galiardi, Hamilton, and a conditional first for Kesler you'd be screaming bloody murder.

Not that I'm agreeing with this proposal, because I think it is laughable... but if there are only a few players as versatile as Pavelski, Kesler is one of them.

40 goal season, 40 assist season, Selke season, Top PK, Top PP. Has played with a revolving door of tweeners for several seasons, but is a whiz with the Sedins on the man advantage. Can play C and RW.

This is why he is highly valued, and Pavs ability to do this is something the OP is not recognizing in the value.

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04-01-2013, 03:16 AM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Not that I'm agreeing with this proposal, because I think it is laughable... but if there are only a few players as versatile as Pavelski, Kesler is one of them.

40 goal season, 40 assist season, Selke season, Top PK, Top PP. Has played with a revolving door of tweeners for several seasons, but is a whiz with the Sedins on the man advantage. Can play C and RW.

This is why he is highly valued, and Pavs ability to do this is something the OP is not recognizing in the value.
As versatile, I can live with. But Pavelski can do all those things you mentioned. So I fail to see how Kesler is more versatile, which was the point I was contending.

Regardless, this whole Pavelski vs. Kesler thing only came about because some Canucks fans seem to have double-standards between the assets they'd trade to get Pavelski and the assets they would require to get Kesler.

Who is better between the two players, who even cares. You like your player and we like ours. Kesler was just used as the Canucks equivalent of Pavelski to show how utterly undervalued Pavelski was.

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:46 AM
  #82
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Insulting offer. Would you trade Kesler for a 3rd liner, an unproven prospect, and a conditional first? A CONDITIONAL first? For a 1B/2 center? Give me a break.

And how on Earth has Pavelski been in a "losing culture" while Raymond has not?

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:48 AM
  #83
Honour Over Glory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
San Jose is looking to shake things up and Vancouver desperately needs someone on the second line to play with Kesler.

Here is my proposal:

To Vancouver: Joe Pavelski
To San Jose: Mason Raymond, Brendan Gaunce, Conditional 1st Round Pick

Why San Jose does this: They are trading Clowe and are looking for more speed on the wings. Raymond is one of the fastest skaters in the NHL and has a knack of scoring goals. Would be a perfect fit on Thornton's line. They also get the Canucks first round pick from last year, Gaunce, who projects to be a 2nd/3rd line C. On top of all that, they get a conditional first round pick. If Raymond doesn't re-sign with them (UFA at season's end), they get a 1st. If he does re-sign, it's a 2nd.

Why Vancouver does this: Like I said, Vancouver needs someone to play with Kesler. Booth isn't cutting it and Higgins/Hansen are more 2nd/3rd line tweeners. By getting Pavelski, they can move Kesler to wing where he was effective when being centered by Mats Sundin a few years back. This would allow Kesler to shoot more with his great shot instead of trying to dish the puck to his wingers. Pavelski is signed for another year at $4M cap hit.
Sharks are getting ripped off big time here. The only way Joe Pavelski would be available is if a team massively over pays because they really have no reason to trade him otherwise. His value to the team is very high and the fact that he's a young guy that is a proven top 6 player.

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:53 AM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TLinden16 View Post
Not that I'm agreeing with this proposal, because I think it is laughable... but if there are only a few players as versatile as Pavelski, Kesler is one of them.

40 goal season, 40 assist season, Selke season, Top PK, Top PP. Has played with a revolving door of tweeners for several seasons, but is a whiz with the Sedins on the man advantage. Can play C and RW.

This is why he is highly valued, and Pavs ability to do this is something the OP is not recognizing in the value.
That 40 goal season is more like an anomaly than the norm for Kesler given that he's never even scored 30 goals in his career outside that 1 year he had 40. I think that was his high point, he's probably a consistent 60-70pt guy though when healthy. Pavelski is probably a little more productive than Kesler is. Not bad for a 7th round pick.

Kesler is a .60ppg guy for his career, Pavelski is .71ppg guy in 100 less games in the NHL, both drafted in the same year, opposite ends of the draft. Amazing really.

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:59 AM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honour Over Glory View Post
That 40 goal season is more like an anomaly than the norm for Kesler given that he's never even scored 30 goals in his career outside that 1 year he had 40. I think that was his high point, he's probably a consistent 60-70pt guy though when healthy. Pavelski is probably a little more productive than Kesler is. Not bad for a 7th round pick.

Kesler is a .60ppg guy for his career, Pavelski is .71ppg guy in 100 less games in the NHL, both drafted in the same year, opposite ends of the draft. Amazing really.
Those 100 less games are relevant if you actually decide to look at them.

Pavs was spoon-fed minutes once he finally did enter the league a few years after Kesler had already been playing hard shutdown minutes for the Canucks. Of course he didn't produce in this first few years.

If you look at their last 5 years (as in, all that's relevant), Kes has outproduced Pavs in FEWER games.

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Old
04-01-2013, 04:36 AM
  #86
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Pavelski was a 7th round pick, how many of those pan out and then do as well as he has? You are a Canucks fan, so obviously you are going to go and come up with any excuse for Kesler. Why would the Sharks rush a 7th round pick? They let him develop and gave him ice time when he deserved it, don't be mad they brought him along the way they did.

Between the two, I'd rather have Pavelski. The diving stuff with Kesler, just not a good rep even if he is a solid player.

And I'm not a fan of either team.

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Old
04-01-2013, 05:40 AM
  #87
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
If you think this proposal is so bad why don't you try and come up with something better?

Pavelski was brought up in the Canucks section too, but the offers were much worse than what I proposed.
No offense man but its just not there.

I mean I think the value is bad, not as bad as maybe some Sharks fans think. But I dont think it is fair, Jensen would need to be added in place of Raymond. In terms of actual value.

But the thing is. We have to not only match actual value to get Pavelski, but overpay by enough that the Sharks would be willing to deal him to us.

And that is where the issue is. SJ has no appetite to deal him here. So it would be an insane overpayment to get him. And no thanks to that.

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Old
04-01-2013, 09:31 AM
  #88
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Just a horrible proposal.. I would take Pavelski over Kesler. Pavelski is way more durable at this point.

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04-01-2013, 09:53 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
Oh yeah? That probably has something to do with the fact that Kesler wasn't babied into the NHL like Pavelski. Kesler played his first season in 03/04 while Pavelski played in 06/07.

Look at the last 5 years (including this one) in comparison and Kesler is better

Pavelski: 337 GP, 260 points
Kesler: 330 GP, 261 points

Kesler also has a 40 goal season and a Selke (not just measly top 10 finishes) to his name and it's not even close
Let me tell you the problem with that statement.
Pavelski got into the NHL later than Kesler, yet he still has more games played with Kesler only having one point more, but Kesler has always been on a line with goal scorers and playmakers. Pavelski had Torrey Mitchell and Kyle Wellwood on his line one year so that's about 15-20 games down the drain.

My point is I would rather have Pavelski who I've never heard complain, because he doesn't have a reputation in the league as a diver, much more durable, and arguably better due to the extreme under rating in the league.

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Old
04-01-2013, 10:43 AM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
If you think this proposal is so bad why don't you try and come up with something better?

Pavelski was brought up in the Canucks section too, but the offers were much worse than what I proposed.
My proposal is we DON'T trade for one of San Jose's most valuable players by throwing an abundance of crap at him without being willing to part with one of our more valuable pieces hoping that the quantity adds up to his value.

Everyone's rejected/panned your proposal, why start an argument about it and drag it out? A GM wouldn't make a proposal, get rejected/hung up and call back to be all "what!? That's ridiculous! Let me tell you why you're wrong..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergei Shirokov View Post
Same, I'm with you and Stinger.

Ugh this is just embarrassing the Proposal is horrible, but alot of the comments afterword aren't much better.

No reason for a Kesler/Pavelski debate to have happened either.
Totally fair reaction, IMO. If you asked me to trade a player I didn't want to trade, I'd ask for the moon too.


Last edited by Shareefruck: 04-01-2013 at 10:49 AM.
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04-01-2013, 04:26 PM
  #91
Sergei Shirokov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shareefruck View Post
My proposal is we DON'T trade for one of San Jose's most valuable players by throwing an abundance of crap at him without being willing to part with one of our more valuable pieces hoping that the quantity adds up to his value.

Everyone's rejected/panned your proposal, why start an argument about it and drag it out? A GM wouldn't make a proposal, get rejected/hung up and call back to be all "what!? That's ridiculous! Let me tell you why you're wrong..."Totally fair reaction, IMO. If you asked me to trade a player I didn't want to trade, I'd ask for the moon too.
I was referring to the debate that started and whatnot.

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Old
04-01-2013, 05:11 PM
  #92
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Why would San Jose do this?

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Old
04-02-2013, 02:38 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Awesomeaaron16 View Post
Let me tell you the problem with that statement.
Pavelski got into the NHL later than Kesler, yet he still has more games played with Kesler only having one point more, but Kesler has always been on a line with goal scorers and playmakers. Pavelski had Torrey Mitchell and Kyle Wellwood on his line one year so that's about 15-20 games down the drain.

My point is I would rather have Pavelski who I've never heard complain, because he doesn't have a reputation in the league as a diver, much more durable, and arguably better due to the extreme under rating in the league.
Kesler's injury history alone, not to mention his diving antiques, makes Pavelski a much more valuable player than Kesler.

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Old
04-02-2013, 02:48 AM
  #94
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I don't know why people think the Sharks would consider trading Pavelski. I don't think there's much out there that would be worth it. In my opinion the Sharks have four untouchables, Couture, Pavelski, Burns, and Vlasic.

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04-02-2013, 03:13 AM
  #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henrik To Daniel View Post
If you think this proposal is so bad why don't you try and come up with something better?

Pavelski was brought up in the Canucks section too, but the offers were much worse than what I proposed.
Why does there need to be a proposal for Pavelski? Why can't you just accept that the assets that Vancouver is willing to give up for a player like Pavelski are not the kind of assets you need to give up for a player like Pavelski?

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04-02-2013, 03:36 AM
  #96
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Originally Posted by bigPAVELSKI View Post
I don't know why people think the Sharks would consider trading Pavelski. I don't think there's much out there that would be worth it. In my opinion the Sharks have four untouchables, Couture, Pavelski, Burns, and Vlasic.
This. These guys are our core and our future. Any rebuilding the team does would be around those players, so they would only be traded for a massive over payment or a true "can't miss" deal.

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04-02-2013, 06:01 AM
  #97
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I'd trade a 1st + prospect + roster player for Pavelski.

Let's play fill in the blank assuming both Sedins + Kesler are out of the question.

I can honestly see what the Sharks would say they wouldn't accept any offer for Pavelski. His talent level for his cap hit is a great package.

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:04 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Arkansas Shark View Post
Add Jensen to make the OP slightly less insulting
lol....We could get a better player than Pavelski for Jensen, Gaunce, Raymond and a first

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Old
04-02-2013, 10:05 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great 88 View Post
Why does there need to be a proposal for Pavelski? Why can't you just accept that the assets that Vancouver is willing to give up for a player like Pavelski are not the kind of assets you need to give up for a player like Pavelski?
Agreed.

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