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Ben Bishop for Curtis Glencross

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Old
04-01-2013, 05:17 PM
  #301
guyzeur
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Originally Posted by derriko View Post
Well if you average out the sizes of Bishop, Greening, and Da Costa, you're making the team "bigger overall haha"

but that's actually a good point I don't think of. they have Cammy, Backlund, Stepniak, Hudler, Cervenka, and even Baertschi under 6".

that's almost their entire top 6 of small guys especially since Iginla is gone, and Glencross would be in the proposed trade.

how about Zack Smith + 3rd for Glencross?

JOB can replace Smith, and the Lat-Zib-Silf line can remain intact even when fully healthy.
i prefer this trade proposal than anything else so far.

Then we can trade Bishop + to NJ for Clarkson


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04-01-2013, 05:27 PM
  #302
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post
My point has nothing to do with Glencross. If you think Glencross is an overpayment, then fine.. don;t trade Glencross.
My point is that Bishop has done something none of your goalies have done (except Kipper of course) and that's win in the NHL. It's like putting all your money on green and hoping for the best. Maybe having a plan B(ishop) would be a good idea... just saying.
I agree we have no idea what Ramo can do, but given that we are rebuilding it makes more sense to gamble on Ramo and hope he is as good or better than Bishop than to give up a significant asset (what ever it may be) for Bishop. If Ramo fails we can revisit trading for a goalie but until we are out of options making a move for a goalie should wait.

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04-01-2013, 05:31 PM
  #303
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
I agree we have no idea what Ramo can do, but given that we are rebuilding it makes more sense to gamble on Ramo and hope he is as good or better than Bishop than to give up a significant asset (what ever it may be) for Bishop. If Ramo fails we can revisit trading for a goalie but until we are out of options making a move for a goalie should wait.

Great response - Makes more sense to me that what I was reading before.

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04-01-2013, 05:36 PM
  #304
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Originally Posted by Kevin8se7en View Post

Great response - Makes more sense to me that what I was reading before.
I think both fan bases are having a massive misunderstanding, its not that Calgary wouldn't love to get Bishop but right now we have a couple of options in net for next year and so many other holes to fill that moving one of our better trade assets and perhaps our best option for captain to acquire another goalie just doesn't make sense.

We understand that Bishop is Ottawa's best trading chip we just need young forwards and defenseman so much more.

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04-01-2013, 06:11 PM
  #305
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by God Says No View Post
tanguay maybe if he's cheap (4th rounder or lower), no interest in stempniak.
You do realize that they'd both lead your team in scoring right? Stempniak is also excellent defensively. I can't imagine any team in the league having no interest in Stempniak. He's a 2.5 million cap hit and plays shutdown minutes with Glencross and Stajan.

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04-01-2013, 06:15 PM
  #306
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Originally Posted by derriko View Post
Well if you average out the sizes of Bishop, Greening, and Da Costa, you're making the team "bigger overall haha"

but that's actually a good point I don't think of. they have Cammy, Backlund, Stepniak, Hudler, Cervenka, and even Baertschi under 6".

that's almost their entire top 6 of small guys especially since Iginla is gone, and Glencross would be in the proposed trade.

how about Zack Smith + 3rd for Glencross?

JOB can replace Smith, and the Lat-Zib-Silf line can remain intact even when fully healthy.
Backlund is 6'0-6'1". I like Zack Smith, but he's not even remotely comparable to Glencross. Would you trade Michalek for Darren Helm? That's basically what you're asking us to do, except we have the "Michalek" locked up for four years at 2.5 million per. And Smith isn't quite as good as Helm.

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04-01-2013, 06:20 PM
  #307
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
Backlund is 6'0-6'1". I like Zack Smith, but he's not even remotely comparable to Glencross. Would you trade Michalek for Darren Helm? That's basically what you're asking us to do, except we have the "Michalek" locked up for four years at 2.5 million per. And Smith isn't quite as good as Helm.
This is a very bad post. Zack Smith is a more valuable player then Darren Helm, and Michalek is a more valuable player then Glencross.

Ya, we get it, you guys want value for your player, and so you should. Yes, He is on a very good deal. He is still a 30+ year old player who has never broken 50 points.

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04-01-2013, 06:22 PM
  #308
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
This is a very bad post. Zack Smith is a more valuable player then Darren Helm, and Michalek is a more valuable player then Glencross.

Ya, we get it, you guys want value for your player, and so you should. Yes, He is on a very good deal. He is still a 30+ year old player who has never broken 50 points.
Over the last 3 years Glencross has a better goals per game than Michalek and makes 2 million less I wouldn't trade Glencross for Michalek.

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04-01-2013, 06:26 PM
  #309
Double Dion
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
This is a very bad post. Zack Smith is a more valuable player then Darren Helm, and Michalek is a more valuable player then Glencross.

Ya, we get it, you guys want value for your player, and so you should. Yes, He is on a very good deal. He is still a 30+ year old player who has never broken 50 points.
I'm from Swift Current, so I love Smith. But he is not better than Darren Helm. Michalek isn't better than Glencross either. I guess playing with Spezza and Alfredsson is not a factor in point production at all hey? Conroy and Langkow both put up 70+ points when they played with Iginla when they were 50 point types without him. Spezza has made a lot of guys better, Michalek is one of them. I don't think anyone would debate which player brings more grit and PK ability.

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04-01-2013, 06:29 PM
  #310
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Over the last 3 years Glencross has a better goals per game than Michalek and makes 2 million less I wouldn't trade Glencross for Michalek.
Yes that's what I said, he has a great contract. Contracts really have no effect on Ottawa at this point in time, so they will stick with Michalek. I was saying comparing a trade of Zack Smith and a third for Glencross to Darren Helm for Milan Michalek dumb.

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04-01-2013, 06:30 PM
  #311
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Originally Posted by Officer Farva View Post
Yes that's what I said, he has a great contract. Contracts really have no effect on Ottawa at this point in time, so they will stick with Michalek. I was saying comparing a trade of Zack Smith and a third for Glencross to Darren Helm for Milan Michalek dumb.
You said Michalek > GlenX, I disagree. I think GlenX is the all around better player and has out scored him over the last 3 years.

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04-01-2013, 06:34 PM
  #312
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Smith is on pace for 30 points as our shut down center.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was a 20-20 player in his career years, and hes only 24 right now.

People are shocked by the amount of skill the guy has when they see him in practice and warm ups.

obviously thats different than a game, but in his prime he will be a physical beast, and his potential might actually be better than he gets credit for.

he has gotten to play a little bit on our second line, and he looks really good with skilled players.

I understand if you guys still aren't interested, but I wouldnt be surprised at all if he was as good or as valuable at 30 as Glencross is.

I only wouldn't mind seeing him traded since he will never move ahead of Turris and Spezza here.

Maybe sweetening the pot a bit would work?

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04-01-2013, 06:37 PM
  #313
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Originally Posted by derriko View Post
Smith is on pace for 30 points as our shut down center.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he was a 20-20 player in his career years, and hes only 24 right now.

People are shocked by the amount of skill the guy has when they see him in practice and warm ups.

obviously thats different than a game, but in his prime he will be a physical beast, and his potential might actually be better than he gets credit for.

he has gotten to play a little bit on our second line, and he looks really good with skilled players.

I understand if you guys still aren't interested, but I would be surprised at all if he was as good or as valuable at 30 as Glencross is.

I only wouldn't mind seeing him traded since he will never move ahead of Turris and Spezza here.

Maybe sweetening the pot a bit would work?
Like I said, I do really like Smith. I'd rather do a deal around picks/prospects though because you guys are a playoff team and thus value Smith highly and rightly so.

For a rebuilding team, a guy like Smith is available later on in free agency when you're ready to compete. We need guys who have a chance to become the type of players that are never available in free agency if we're trading you our best player. Glencross and Giordano are our most valuable trade pieces and also the ones we'd most like to keep. IMO, we should only move them if we are getting premium value.

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04-01-2013, 06:38 PM
  #314
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
You said Michalek > GlenX, I disagree. I think GlenX is the all around better player and has out scored him over the last 3 years.
Yeah! The 'Selective Statistics Game.'

In the last 5 years, Glencross has scored 92 goals in 318 NHL games, for a goal per game rate of 0.29. In the same period Michalek has scored 100 goals in 301 games, a rate of 0.33.

I'm not trying to slag Glencross, but saying that he's superior to Michalek in scoring is just absolutely not true.

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04-01-2013, 06:40 PM
  #315
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Originally Posted by bigfatfist View Post
Yeah! The 'Selective Statistics Game.'

In the last 5 years, Glencross has scored 92 goals in 318 NHL games, for a goal per game rate of 0.29. In the same period Michalek has scored 100 goals in 301 games, a rate of 0.33.

I'm not trying to slag Glencross, but saying that he's superior to Michalek in scoring is just absolutely not true.
4 years ago Glencross was a 4th liner. Hardly comparable. He's been a top 6 player the past three years, so those are the ones that we should be looking at. .36 GPG for Glencross, .34 for Michalek. One of them plays with Spezza, the other with Stajan/Backlund/Jokinen. There is no question who brings more grit and who kills penalties better.

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04-01-2013, 06:42 PM
  #316
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I don't like the idea of trading assets for players that were 4th liners a few years ago.


See, isn't this fun?

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04-01-2013, 06:43 PM
  #317
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
4 years ago Glencross was a 4th liner. Hardly comparable. He's been a top 6 player the past three years, so those are the ones that we should be looking at.
Hahaha...yeah, that's why I called it the 'Selective Statistics Game.' Great, and last year they were both healthy and playing Top 6 minutes. And Michalek outscored him.

My point is just that even with picking and choosing statistics, it's not really making an outstanding case that Glencross produces more.

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04-01-2013, 06:44 PM
  #318
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Originally Posted by bigfatfist View Post
Yeah! The 'Selective Statistics Game.'

In the last 5 years, Glencross has scored 92 goals in 318 NHL games, for a goal per game rate of 0.29. In the same period Michalek has scored 100 goals in 301 games, a rate of 0.33.

I'm not trying to slag Glencross, but saying that he's superior to Michalek in scoring is just absolutely not true.
I don't care what Michalek did 5 years ago or even 2 years ago, Michalek cannot score with out Spezza.

Over the last 2 years Michalek has 37 goals in 92 games for a goals per game of .40 and GlenX has 40 in 98 games for a goals per game .41. Not to mention GlenX is a great pker and is a very good defensive player. There is no way I would take Michalek over GlenX especially when you factor in contracts.

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04-01-2013, 06:45 PM
  #319
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Originally Posted by Double Dion View Post
4 years ago Glencross was a 4th liner. Hardly comparable. He's been a top 6 player the past three years, so those are the ones that we should be looking at. .36 GPG for Glencross, .34 for Michalek. One of them plays with Spezza, the other with Stajan/Backlund/Jokinen. There is no question who brings more grit and who kills penalties better.
And one of them was playing through 2 knee injuries. Argue it back and forth all you want - I'm just saying that the claim that Glencross produces more doesn't hold up.

[although, I assume that's why you've moved on to talking about PK ability]

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04-01-2013, 06:50 PM
  #320
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
I don't care what Michalek did 5 years ago or even 2 years ago, Michalek cannot score with out Spezza.

Over the last 2 years Michalek has 37 goals in 92 games for a goals per game of .40 and GlenX has 40 in 98 games for a goals per game .41. Not to mention GlenX is a great pker and is a very good defensive player. There is no way I would take Michalek over GlenX especially when you factor in contracts.
Contracts? PK ability?....this has nothing to do with it. I'm only questioning the claim that Glencross outscores Michalek. It's garbage. Change the time span all you want to adjust the rates, that was my point to begin with.

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04-01-2013, 06:50 PM
  #321
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This rumour has been out there too long, I bet it's dead in the water - if it was ever even alive.

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04-01-2013, 06:54 PM
  #322
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Originally Posted by bigfatfist View Post
Contracts? PK ability?....this has nothing to do with it. I'm only questioning the claim that Glencross outscores Michalek. It's garbage. Change the time span all you want to adjust the rates, that was my point to begin with.
So we can't look at time spans to see who has scored more to see which one scores more? Over the last 3 years, 2 years, this year Glencross scores more per game than Michalek. Right now Glencross is a much better player than Michalek.

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04-01-2013, 06:55 PM
  #323
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Michalek is better defensively and a better PKer than Glencross......

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04-01-2013, 06:58 PM
  #324
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Michalek is better defensively and a better PKer than Glencross......
Oh brother. Go post on a kiddie board somewhere.

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04-01-2013, 06:58 PM
  #325
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Personally, I attribute Michalek's 35 goals to his other line mate, Colin Greening.

This is a really stupid argument.

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