HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Ben Bishop for Curtis Glencross

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
04-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #501
sensfan44
peacetowersens
 
sensfan44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chilliwack BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
Man we've gone over this a million times already. The Flames "future" goalies are Gillies and Brossoit. Both are young; neither is NHL ready.

While those guys develop they need some short-term filler - enter Ramo and the random Swiss prospect whose name I can't remember.

They don't expect either to be a long-term solution. They're not looking for a long-term solution - they believe they already have one.

Bishop may be a decent young goalie but the Flames aren't looking for one at the moment.

If the Flames planned on contending in the next 3-4 years Bishop might make sense, but it looks like the Flames are fully committed to a rebuild now.
Well said. I think its just the 'actual' value of both players in this deal that we are trying to come to terms with.

sensfan44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #502
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,638
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Is there a problem running two good goalies?
No that is why we are trying Berra and Ramo together to see what we have. No one is saying Bishop sucks but until we see what we have it would be foolish to bring Bishop especially with the price you guys are asking.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #503
sensfan44
peacetowersens
 
sensfan44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chilliwack BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
On a side note. Would you trade GlenX straight across for Jake Allen?

sensfan44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #504
GetThePuckOut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,408
vCash: 50
Goaltending is the least urgent of Calgary's holes, and one that might resolve itself with a half dozen wild cards in the system.

If none of these guys work out, then we'll trade someone for the next Ben Bishop. If it comes to that. There's always a Ben Bishop out there though. It's not like it's a once in a lifetime opportunity that the Flames would be foolish to pass on.

Besides, no one in Calgary would ever think of trading Glencross, and if they did it would have to be for a much better central piece than an unproven 26 year old goalie.

GetThePuckOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:26 PM
  #505
InfinityIggy
Moderator
No Longer Flammable
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,273
vCash: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Feaster's time is ticking down, so that'll be irrelevant as well.
How insightful. Totally relevant to the topic at hand.

InfinityIggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:27 PM
  #506
HighLifeMan
Registered User
 
HighLifeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,414
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan44 View Post
On a side note. Would you trade GlenX straight across for Jake Allen?
Nope.

HighLifeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:27 PM
  #507
sensfan44
peacetowersens
 
sensfan44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chilliwack BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Sure except the Oilers already have a better goalie than Bishop. There aren't many teams looking for goalies we aren't going to overpay for someone that may already be redundant.
Who?

sensfan44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:28 PM
  #508
InfinityIggy
Moderator
No Longer Flammable
 
InfinityIggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Calgary, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 27,273
vCash: 107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan44 View Post
On a side note. Would you trade GlenX straight across for Jake Allen?
No, and I think Jake Allen is going to be a great goalie actually.

We want to see what we have in these Euro goalies first. Also, I think Glenx is worth more than just Allen at the moment either way.

InfinityIggy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:28 PM
  #509
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,638
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
You can't think that Berra just solved your problems. I don't believe you if you say that. You seem like a super-fan, deep down you realize that you need someone young who can grow with your team who has some semblance of knowing what an NHL net looks like.

Bishop isn't the be all to end all - and yes, I understand the Sens would be sending more with him, but he's a starter for your franchise, someone you can count on to deliver ~.910 numbers on a bad team because he's friggin' massive and he's very athletic. More importantly, you NEED someone to push Ramo (if he's your guy).

You'll find that whatever incoming GM takes over in Calgary will feel the same way, I'm sure of it.

As for us trading Bishop, I doubt we do until the draft unless someone steps up. I doubt I need to explain how important good goalie depth is.
All 3 are 26
None of them are young enough to grow with the team give it up.

I don't think any of the 3 are allstars but way would we get Bishop when we potentially have 2 goalies that can get the job done now?

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:28 PM
  #510
madmike77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
You can't think that Berra just solved your problems. I don't believe you if you say that. You seem like a super-fan, deep down you realize that you need someone young who can grow with your team who has some semblance of knowing what an NHL net looks like.

Bishop isn't the be all to end all - and yes, I understand the Sens would be sending more with him, but he's a starter for your franchise, someone you can count on to deliver ~.910 numbers on a bad team because he's friggin' massive and he's very athletic. More importantly, you NEED someone to push Ramo (if he's your guy).

You'll find that whatever incoming GM takes over in Calgary will feel the same way, I'm sure of it.

As for us trading Bishop, I doubt we do until the draft unless someone steps up. I doubt I need to explain how important good goalie depth is.
Again, Ramo is not THE guy. If I had to guess I'd say Gillies will ultimately be the guy. But he's 19 at the moment. The Flames need a stopgap for a couple of years.

If Ramo turns out to be better than a stopgap, great. But they don't really need him to be.

I'm not knocking Bishop. But he isn't really a fit for the Flames.

madmike77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:28 PM
  #511
GetThePuckOut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,408
vCash: 50
double post. nothing to read here.

GetThePuckOut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:29 PM
  #512
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,638
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan44 View Post
Who?
Dubnyk? Duh?

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:29 PM
  #513
madmike77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan44 View Post
Well said. I think its just the 'actual' value of both players in this deal that we are trying to come to terms with.
Yeah I'd agree in general that actual value right now looks to be a lot lower than people believed - not only in the Flames trades but in all trades for picks/prospects we have seen so far.

madmike77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:30 PM
  #514
The Ultimate Warrior
F l a m e s
 
The Ultimate Warrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fort McMurray
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,310
vCash: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan44 View Post
Just look what Derek Roy brought.....then ask yourself, is Roy better than GlenX? .....your answer?
You need to stop now, you're making yourself look stupid.

- GlenX is signed @2.55 for the next two years.
- GlenX is preforming at a higher level than Roy
- GlenX is gritty, plays PK, PP, etc.

-Roy is good, but a rental
-Roy will demand 4.5 -5.5 million per season next year.
-Roy can walk if he wants...

They aren't comparables.. Nice try though.

The Ultimate Warrior is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:31 PM
  #515
sensfan44
peacetowersens
 
sensfan44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chilliwack BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,238
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NightBlazer View Post
Goaltending is the least urgent of Calgary's holes, and one that might resolve itself with a half dozen wild cards in the system.

If none of these guys work out, then we'll trade someone for the next Ben Bishop. If it comes to that. There's always a Ben Bishop out there though. It's not like it's a once in a lifetime opportunity that the Flames would be foolish to pass on.

Besides, no one in Calgary would ever think of trading Glencross, and if they did it would have to be for a much better central piece than an unproven 26 year old goalie.
Would you rather have Bernier. He's played all of 59 NHL games over the years

sensfan44 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:32 PM
  #516
StefanW
Registered User
 
StefanW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,282
vCash: 50
Wow, I had no idea Calgary fans overestimate their own talent to such a high degree. I thought I was reading the Leafs forum for a minute here. Maybe this is why it took so long to finally blow up this mess of a team.

The Flames season is done but I am sure they want to compete next year. You can't compete without very good goaltending. Anyone who thinks guys like Montoya are the answer is smoking funny stuff, and probably planning a cup parade for a team that would be competing for a lottery pick. Yes, you may have a couple of goaltending prospects who may pan out in a while, but they will amount to nothing if you throw them in too quickly (see Leafs, Toronto).

So even if you have the long term answer you still have to address the medium term question of who will give your team a shot at winning night in and night out next season. One very good answer to that question is Bishop, and the reason the cost is so high is because he is one of the very few guys out there that will not cost 5 million per season but will still give you a chance to win.

StefanW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:33 PM
  #517
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,638
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sensfan44 View Post
Would you rather have Bernier. He's played all of 59 NHL games over the years
Yes if we trade for a goalie I would much rather have Bernier he is young and slightly more proven.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:34 PM
  #518
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,638
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by StefanW View Post
Wow, I had no idea Calgary fans overestimate their own talent to such a high degree. I thought I was reading the Leafs forum for a minute here. Maybe this is why it took so long to finally blow up this mess of a team.

The Flames season is done but I am sure they want to compete next year. You can't compete without very good goaltending. Anyone who thinks guys like Montoya are the answer is smoking funny stuff, and probably planning a cup parade for a team that would be competing for a lottery pick. Yes, you may have a couple of goaltending prospects who may pan out in a while, but they will amount to nothing if you throw them in too quickly (see Leafs, Toronto).

So even if you have the long term answer you still have to address the medium term question of who will give your team a shot at winning night in and night out next season. One very good answer to that question is Bishop, and the reason the cost is so high is because he is one of the very few guys out there that will not cost 5 million per season but will still give you a chance to win.
We have its Ramo and Berra and most likely McDonald is kept just incase.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:40 PM
  #519
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
SpezDispenser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
All 3 are 26
None of them are young enough to grow with the team give it up.

I don't think any of the 3 are allstars but way would we get Bishop when we potentially have 2 goalies that can get the job done now?
Never gonna happen. Mark my words, the Flames will not go with any of those guys - with the possible exception of Ramo as a backup. The next GM will come in and do everything in his power to get a young goaltender with upside who has played in the NHL.

Ideally Robin Lehner, but he's not going anywhere. Bishop might not even be good enough to stabilize your net to be honest. I remember being in a similar situation as the Flames and it took a lot of work and a lot of luck to get Anderson who started to stabilize things for us.

Gonna be a hell of a long haul for Flames fans and management.

SpezDispenser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:42 PM
  #520
McManked
Ooh to be a Gooner
 
McManked's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Edmonton, AB
Country: Canada
Posts: 19,520
vCash: 535
Oh my gosh, both fanbases are being embarrassing right now.

Sens fans, resorting to "clearly this is why you have the worst organization in the league" is kindergarten ****, grow up.

I think Flames fans are overvaluing their players, but stop taking cheapshots just because they value their players highly. Newsflash, we do that as well...

McManked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:43 PM
  #521
TheHudlinator
Registered User
 
TheHudlinator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Victoria,BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,638
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Never gonna happen. Mark my words, the Flames will not go with any of those guys - with the possible exception of Ramo as a backup. The next GM will come in and do everything in his power to get a young goaltender with upside who has played in the NHL.

Ideally Robin Lehner, but he's not going anywhere. Bishop might not even be good enough to stabilize your net to be honest. I remember being in a similar situation as the Flames and it took a lot of work and a lot of luck to get Anderson who started to stabilize things for us.

Gonna be a hell of a long haul for Flames fans and management.
You gave up a barely capable backup for Andersson, given the goalie market it looks like 2nd + another mid pick gets you a young backup with upside. Feaster isn't going any where from the sounds of things and we are going to run with Ramo and Berra until our young prospects develop more. Bishop doesn't do much because of we don't know what we have in Ramo in Berra no because we don't think Bishop is bad. If Ramo and Berra do blow then we make a move next offseason if they are capable of being NHL goalies then problem solved I don't get how this is hard to understand.

TheHudlinator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:43 PM
  #522
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
SpezDispenser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Yes if we trade for a goalie I would much rather have Bernier he is young and slightly more proven.
Actually, he'd be perfect for the Flames. Short and long term.

SpezDispenser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:45 PM
  #523
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
SpezDispenser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
You gave up a barely capable backup for Andersson, given the goalie market it looks like 2nd + another mid pick gets you a young backup with upside. Feaster isn't going any where from the sounds of things and we are going to run with Ramo and Berra until our young prospects develop more. Bishop doesn't do much because of we don't know what we have in Ramo in Berra no because we don't think Bishop is bad. If Ramo and Berra do blow then we make a move next offseason if they are capable of being NHL goalies then problem solved I don't get how this is hard to understand.
You can't do that - and you won't IMO. As a previous poster mentioned, there's no way the Flames just throw in the towel next year and say screw it we give up, they'll try to bolster things from the net out - and that doesn't mean Ramo and Berra, that means a Bernier or a Bishop if you can't get Bernier.

You've seen teams blow it up a thousand times before, the ones who get it right start from the net out.

SpezDispenser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:47 PM
  #524
madmike77
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,204
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpezDispenser View Post
Never gonna happen. Mark my words, the Flames will not go with any of those guys - with the possible exception of Ramo as a backup. The next GM will come in and do everything in his power to get a young goaltender with upside who has played in the NHL.

Ideally Robin Lehner, but he's not going anywhere. Bishop might not even be good enough to stabilize your net to be honest. I remember being in a similar situation as the Flames and it took a lot of work and a lot of luck to get Anderson who started to stabilize things for us.

Gonna be a hell of a long haul for Flames fans and management.
Well they just signed Berra so...

madmike77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
04-02-2013, 02:48 PM
  #525
SpezDispenser
Registered User
 
SpezDispenser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 18,049
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by madmike77 View Post
Well they just signed Berra so...
Do you really believe they'll leave it at that? Would you?

SpezDispenser is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:49 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.