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Columbus a Buyer; One of their 1st round picks in play for scoring help

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Old
04-01-2013, 03:52 PM
  #201
Crede777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
Yep Gaborik sans this year has really struggled on teams with limited offensive skill and defense first mentalities. Holy **** I just remembered this is HF and anything a player has done outside of the last 10 games is irrelevant!

Good luck getting a mid 20's stud for a mid first and Brassard though.
Why would they want to add someone who is 31 and has injury concerns as well as consistency issues unless it is dirt cheap? He has 1 year on his contract after this one.

This team is trying to build around players who are gritty, character driven, etc. That is not Gaborik. What Columbus should be looking to add is someone who is:
1. A scorer
2. Mid-20's
3. Has size.

If they can't add that (which you say they can't), then fine keep the picks and draft some players.

Please, just no more of the Ales Hemsky or Marian Gaborik proposals!

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04-01-2013, 03:53 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I also stated in a post after that, that I had not seen him ask for two roster players and that I had interest in Brassard + prospect + 1st and was willing to add a younger asset.

The reason I referenced the Nash trade and more specifically your fervent denial of any proposal not yielding a massive return was to point out that sometimes things don't happen as you would expect.
Gaborik isn't worth a young roster player, a first, and a prospect. On top of that, that isn't even what the Rangers would want for him.

This isn't opinion either - LeBrun and other sources reported the Rangers would be open to moving Gaborik if they could get a top 4 defenseman with a right handed shot and some guys to fill out their roster depth, which is a place they've struggled. So again, the reported value the Rangers are looking for is not a 1st, prospect, and young roster player - they know he's not worth that, and that type of return doesn't help the Rangers this year. And it also doesn't work money wise with the Rangers taking back not nearly as much salary as they are dumping.

On top of that, this idea of "Brassard + prospect + 1st" for Gaborik goes against everything Jackets management is saying and looking to do as far as thinking long term and adding to the core of the team.

But by all means, keep going. And please, who is this "young asset" you are willing to give the CBJ? I thought all young Rangers were untouchable.

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04-01-2013, 03:56 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
If they trade one of those picks for a good, young player, which is exactly what has been suggested, then they'll be adding a good, young player with one of those picks.
That seems like a good plan but who's willing to sell a good younger player for a pick? I'm sure the cost would be more and they're better off just picking a good prospect in this deep draft.

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04-01-2013, 03:57 PM
  #204
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What about 2 of those 1st rounders for Phil Kessel?

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04-01-2013, 04:00 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma View Post
That seems like a good plan but who's willing to sell a good younger player for a pick? I'm sure the cost would be more and they're better off just picking a good prospect in this deep draft.
First round pick + surplus D-man or center (i.e, Brassard, Moore, Savard, etc.)

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04-01-2013, 04:03 PM
  #206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
If they trade one of those picks for a good, young player, which is exactly what has been suggested, then they'll be adding a good, young player with one of those picks.
What good, young player can you get for one draft pick?

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04-01-2013, 04:16 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by schabadoo View Post
What good, young player can you get for one draft pick?
The better question is what good young player is a team willing to trade at the deadline? My personal opinion is that there is a little grandstanding going on with this talk from CBJ. They can ride out the season with what they have and if they are fortunate enough to make the playoffs... awesome they didn't give up any assets. If they don't, "they tried but couldn't get the right fit".

This team has really come together and works hard. They deserve a short at the playoffs but most of us are realists that we shouldn't mortgage anything of value for a rental. That alone makes bringing in pieces at the deadling difficult. I think CBJ could move LAK 1st, Savard (prospect) and a guy like Nikitin for help to a team that needs to shore up the D and not sacrifice the future too much. Maybe an abundance of young offensive players? Edmonton? Philly? St.Louis? Ottawa?

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04-01-2013, 04:21 PM
  #208
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Columbus has TONS of defensemen ready for the NHL and 3 picks.

Defenseman and a 1st for Vanek?

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04-01-2013, 04:23 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karma View Post
The Jackets should just hold on to their picks. I don't want to sound like an ass but that team reminds me of Florida last year, they're just on a Cinderella run and it wont last. Keep all 3 picks and add 3 good young players for years to come along with Ryan Murray.
They have 3 picks though, none of them looking like they'll be the top 10, so trading one makes sense. Columbus is better off with two first round picks and adding a forward. I don't know who's available though for a potentially higher first round pick. Cammalleri and Tanguay definitely cross my mind.

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04-01-2013, 04:25 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Gaborik isn't worth a young roster player, a first, and a prospect. On top of that, that isn't even what the Rangers would want for him.

This isn't opinion either - LeBrun and other sources reported the Rangers would be open to moving Gaborik if they could get a top 4 defenseman with a right handed shot and some guys to fill out their roster depth, which is a place they've struggled. So again, the reported value the Rangers are looking for is not a 1st, prospect, and young roster player - they know he's not worth that, and that type of return doesn't help the Rangers this year. And it also doesn't work money wise with the Rangers taking back not nearly as much salary as they are dumping.
I am sure if you asked around that Rangers fans would be more than happy with that return. There aren't many deals that will help the Rangers this year, they plan on retooling in the offseason. In which case a return similar to what I suggested in my speculation (you know what that means right?) would certainly help. It doesn't work money wise? Certainly does for the Rangers and with roughly 24m free next year I'm fairly confident CBJ could make it work, considering if its just Gaborik and Brassard as far as NHL contracts go it's a net gain of 4.5m.

Quote:
On top of that, this idea of "Brassard + prospect + 1st" for Gaborik goes against everything Jackets management is saying and looking to do as far as thinking long term and adding to the core of the team.
Pretty sure they are willing to move Brassard as it was stated earlier today, they also have somewhat of an abundance of d-men. So you're saying they wouldn't want to deal from a position of strength? Makes sense. As much as you don't want to admit it Gaborik isn't washed up and could certainly help them for the next 3-5 years. Not exactly long term but it's most likely more one ice production than a mid first round pick would give you in the same time frame.

Quote:
But by all means, keep going. And please, who is this "young asset" you are willing to give the CBJ? I thought all young Rangers were untouchable.
Thanks I will, glad I have our permission. To answer your question, gee I don't know what do you need? Who do you have interest in? Unlike you I'm willing to look at things from different angles. Because you know, deals rarely look the same when the trigger is finally pulled as they do in the beginning.

What really gets me is you personally demanded one of McDonagh, Kreider, and Stepan along with a few other assets for Nash. But now I'm asking for Brassard a prospect and a pick and you're acting like I've offended you. Double standard much?

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04-01-2013, 04:29 PM
  #211
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I think Gaborik could be a good fit for Columbus.

Gaborik for 1st (NYR) + solid roster player

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04-01-2013, 04:30 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
1st + Brassard + Moore (or other prospect) = Bobby Ryan

I mean, if JvR could be had for a pretty bad defeseman in Luke Schenn - I certainly think a 1st and something from the Jackets could get a under-30 top 6 forward.
Yeah, those are the type of deals they are looking to do. They are trying to add a young top 6 winger like JVR or a young top liner like Bobby Ryan. Its very possible they don't do anything at the deadline and try to trade for Ryan at the draft.

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04-01-2013, 04:36 PM
  #213
Barbara Underhill
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Originally Posted by CowMix View Post
I think Gaborik could be a good fit for Columbus.

Gaborik for 1st (NYR) + solid roster player
As do I, but they assume I'm just trying to dump him on them.

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04-01-2013, 04:47 PM
  #214
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in the offseason

they need to go after a guy like mike ryder. all he does is shot the puck on net. when they don't go in there are juicy rebounds left for guys like cally etc. B. the need a dman that can get the puck on net from the point. it's key to their offense and powerplay. they also need heart and soul for their bottom 6. i can't remember the last time anyone fought for pete's sakes. when did you ever have to say that as a ranger fan??? gabs will be traded either this season or next. the team needs that money to be allocated else where. i hope they trade him this year with the draft being so deep. would love for them to get back in the first round. this team has no balls, not gumption. you can't buy a bucket of guts, sadly.

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04-01-2013, 04:49 PM
  #215
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Montreal has Gionta

He would come cheaper than anyone mentioned here. Boll+2nd

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04-01-2013, 04:50 PM
  #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
I am sure if you asked around that Rangers fans would be more than happy with that return. There aren't many deals that will help the Rangers this year, they plan on retooling in the offseason.

I don't doubt that Ranger fans would love to dump a $7.5 million salary for a player not producing for 3 young assets and take back barely and money, but that is Ranger fan fiction so that is why I haven chosen to go on what Andrew Gross and others in the NY media reported, as well as the CBJ quotes.

...and are you seriously trying to equate trading a 28 year old Rick Nash who is locked up with term through all his prime years, with trading a 31-year Gaborik with only one year left mired in his worst season?

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04-01-2013, 04:56 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
As do I, but they assume I'm just trying to dump him on them.
You are trying to dump him since your proposals don't take back any salary and just give the Rangers 3 young assets.

The NYR would need to take back the Umberger or Tyutin contract if the CBJ were to take on Gabby at the very least.

Your idea that the CBJ would resign Gaborik for 5-6 years and have him be a part of their future core is also pretty amazing


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04-01-2013, 05:11 PM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
I don't doubt that Ranger fans would love to dump a $7.5 million salary for a player not producing for 3 young assets and take back barely and money, but that is Ranger fan fiction so that is why I haven chosen to go on what Andrew Gross and others in the NY media reported, as well as the CBJ quotes.

...and are you seriously trying to equate trading a 28 year old Rick Nash who is locked up with term through all his prime years, with trading a 31-year Gaborik with only one year left mired in his worst season?
How many times am I going to have to say I'm not trying to dump Gaborik. You act as if I'm pulling a you and asking for your best prospect + a young stud. You're also moving a mid 1st rounder, maybe higher depending how NY and CLB do reapectively.

If I didn't think Gaborik was going to help Columbus I wouldn't waste time speculating on it. I'm looking at it as a good fit for a player I like as well as the Rangers getting something of value out of it. Are you that enamored with Brassard?

I realize you're probably very excited at the prospect of having 3 firsts, but it's not like they are top 10 picks.

“And don’t forget,” Kekalainen said, “we have three first-round picks. If one of them helps us now, and long-term, we would think about (trading a pick).”

If one of the offers helps now and long term...

You're not going to get Bobby Ryan for Brass and a mid 1st, he's a little more established than JVR was at the time of his being traded, and it was believed Schenn wouldn't suck for the Flyers.

Funny to that now Nash's term is being used as a positive around here while it was just another negative this summer.


Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
You are trying to dump him since your proposals don't take back any salary and just give the Rangers 3 young assets.

The NYR would need to take back the Umberger or Tyutin contract if the CBJ were to take on Gabby at the very least.

Your idea that the CBJ would resign Gaborik for 5-6 years and have him be a part of their future core is also pretty amazing
Brassard plays for free? You realize it can't be a straight swap right? The cap is going down next year.

Also when did I ever say the bolded part? I said he would be able to contribute for 3-5 more years I never said they should sign him for 5-6 years. If it worked out well for him and Columbus he could end his career there and I'm not afraid of him being dead weight.


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04-01-2013, 05:14 PM
  #219
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Would be hilarious if Erixon and their 1st came back to Calgary; doubt it though.

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04-01-2013, 05:21 PM
  #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post
How many times am I going to have to say I'm not trying to dump Gaborik. You act as if I'm pulling a you and asking for your best prospect + a young stud. You're also moving a mid 1st rounder, maybe higher depending how NY and CLB do reapectively.

If I didn't think Gaborik was going to help Columbus I wouldn't waste time speculating on it. I'm looking at it as a good fit for a player I like as well as the Rangers getting something of value out of it. Are you that enamored with Brassard?

I realize you're probably very excited at the prospect of having 3 firsts, but it's not like they are top 10 picks.

“And don’t forget,” Kekalainen said, “we have three first-round picks. If one of them helps us now, and long-term, we would think about (trading a pick).”

If one of the offers helps now and long term...

You're not going to get Bobby Ryan for Brass and a mid 1st, he's a little more established than JVR was at the time of his being traded, and it was believed Schenn wouldn't suck for the Flyers.

Funny to that now Nash's term is being used as a positive around here while it was just another negative this summer.


Brassard plays for free? You realize it can't be a straight swap right? The cap is going down next year.

Also when did I ever say the bolded part? I said he would be able to contribute for 3-5 more years I never said they should sign him for 5-6 years. If it worked out well for him and Columbus he could end his career there and I'm not afraid of him being dead weight.
Yes - the cap is going down next year so it makes total sense the CBJ would take on $7.5 million while only giving up $3.2 million in a trade.

Yes - the Blue Jackets said they would do something that was in their best interest long term. Which does not sound like trading a first, a prospect, and Derick Brassard, for a 31 year old with the the same amount of points as Brassard who is also one year away from UFA.

Nash's term was only used as a negative for Ranger fans who said they didn't want him in the first place. Term positive if you can get a guy locked up through his prime, term isn't positive if you are dealing assets for a guy who may not stick around. It's not that complicated.

The asking price for Ryan was rumored to be a 1st and a young NHL ready or prospect 2nd line center and defenseman. Brass could replace Koivu and we have an abunance of defense as well as 1st round picks so I think the CBJ could make as good as an offer as anyone for Ryan

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04-01-2013, 05:30 PM
  #221
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I doubt anybody pays the price (young roster player with growth and potential) for any of our firsts.

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04-01-2013, 05:31 PM
  #222
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Yeah, those are the type of deals they are looking to do. They are trying to add a young top 6 winger like JVR or a young top liner like Bobby Ryan. Its very possible they don't do anything at the deadline and try to trade for Ryan at the draft.
I agree. As I said on page 3 of this thread:

Quote:
I don't think they can make a positive move by simply moving a single draft pick. It would need to be part of a package. So no "LA 1st for Lee Stempniak" type hooliganism.
I don't think anybody is advocating trying to pick up a player for the pick all by itself. The type of player we would likely return wouldn't be worth it.

A package of a 1st + Brassard + Moore though may hopefully return something interesting.

Gaborik, for all his charms, is a player who should be on a team that's competing now like Vancouver. Columbus still has a ways to go and should go after someone younger. Columbus needs to target a different type of player. Say, a player who is playing down the depth chart from where he should be playing, is a character guy, and is 27. Also prefer that he's an American with the first name of... oh I don't know... Paul.

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04-01-2013, 05:32 PM
  #223
Barbara Underhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IHeartZherdev View Post
Yes - the cap is going down next year so it makes total sense the CBJ would take on $7.5 million while only giving up $3.2 million in a trade.

Yes - the Blue Jackets said they would do something that was in their best interest long term. Which does not sound like trading a first, a prospect, and Derick Brassard, for a 31 year old with the the same amount of points as Brassard who is also one year away from UFA.

Nash's term was only used as a negative for Ranger fans who said they didn't want him in the first place. Term positive if you can get a guy locked up through his prime, term isn't positive if you are dealing assets for a guy who may not stick around. It's not that complicated.

The asking price for Ryan was rumored to be a 1st and a young NHL ready or prospect 2nd line center and defenseman. Brass could replace Koivu and we have an abunance of defense as well as 1st round picks so I think the CBJ could make as good as an offer as anyone for Ryan
You called Brassard a bust on your own boards, now you're trying to flip him for Ryan?

Your team has 24m in free cap space next year, if they add a total of 4m in a trade they will be perfectly fine... But if you really want in this hypothetical situation I'd even retain a portion of Gaborik's hit IF it made you feel that much better considering I guarantee Columbus won't spend to the cap regardless.

You're pretty condescending, and you sensationalize everything, all the while either taking things out of context or putting words in other people's mouths. For that reason I am done here.

You're a confident fellow though, so confident you thought you'd get some of our top prospects for Nash, in fact you came to our board and argued with me and another poster over it. Ouch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
I doubt anybody pays the price (young roster player with growth and potential) for any of our firsts.
At this point no, if either CBJ or the NYR free fall then maybe. Best bet is to keep them all.

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04-01-2013, 05:33 PM
  #224
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*leans back in chair, strokes beard thoughtfully, inhales deeply* yes, yessss, i do believe marian gaborik is the missing piece to the columbus puzzle, why haven't i thought of that before

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04-01-2013, 05:35 PM
  #225
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barbara Underhill View Post

You're a confident fellow though, so confident you thought you'd get some of our top prospects for Nash, in fact you came to our board and argued with me and another poster over it. Ouch.
Again, I have no idea why you bring up the Nash trade in every post.

All I've said is trading a first, Brassard, and prospect for Gaborik does not make sense.

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