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How good would Kazakhstan be if...

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Old
03-31-2013, 03:36 PM
  #1
nabby12
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How good would Kazakhstan be if...

How good would the Kazakhs be if all players born in there country stayed put and played for there country instead of Russia, etc.

Their lineup is actually quite decent...for sure would consistently make top level World Championships.

Perezhogin-Antropov-Pushkarev
Shafranov-Vorobiev-Birbraer

Nabokov
Khudobin
Kolesnik
Barulin

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03-31-2013, 03:41 PM
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russianhockey
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you forgot Kevin Dallman

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03-31-2013, 03:51 PM
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nabby12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
you forgot Kevin Dallman
He's not born in Kazakhstan though

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03-31-2013, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by nabby12 View Post
He's not born in Kazakhstan though
He represents Kazakhstan internationally now. He'd definitely be on that roster.

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04-01-2013, 12:04 AM
  #5
Atas2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nabby12 View Post
How good would the Kazakhs be if all players born in there country stayed put and played for there country instead of Russia, etc.

Their lineup is actually quite decent...for sure would consistently make top level World Championships.

Perezhogin-Antropov-Pushkarev
Shafranov-Vorobiev-Birbraer

Nabokov
Khudobin
Kolesnik
Barulin
The probelm is ppl from the outside don't understand what nationality means in the former soviet countries. In most european countries and especially in NA due to historical circumstances ppl see nationality determined by place of birth. It's different to us. The Soviet Union was a multinational country and so are Russia and Kazakhstan now. Russians in Kazachstan would still identify themselves as Russians. And there is not a single kazach name on yout list. Russians except for Birbraer(German. There is a german minority in Kazachstan) and Kolesnik(probably ukrainian or belorussian roots).

There is also a fact Kazachstan treated the russian "minority" (about 40% of population in soviet times. Now only 23%) with severe racism after the proclamation of independance by Kazachstan which forced nearly half of the Russians to leave the country.

Under those circumstances you can't blame the Kazachstan born Russians for wanting to play for Russia. Kazachs missed the opportunity to build up a relationship between the ethnic groups in the country and prevent existing structures from deteriorating i.e. also the hockey schools and clubs.

Now they have only few ethnic Kazachs playing hockey at a higher level and only few ethnic Russians or ppl of other nationalities born in Kazachstan who want to play for them.

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04-01-2013, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
The probelm is ppl from the outside don't understand what nationality means in the former soviet countries. In most european countries and especially in NA due to historical circumstances ppl see nationality determined by place of birth. It's different to us. The Soviet Union was a multinational country and so are Russia and Kazakhstan now. Russians in Kazachstan would still identify themselves as Russians. And there is not a single kazach name on yout list. Russians except for Birbraer(German. There is a german minority in Kazachstan) and Kolesnik(probably ukrainian or belorussian roots).

There is also a fact Kazachstan treated the russian "minority" (about 40% of population in soviet times. Now only 23%) with severe racism after the proclamation of independance by Kazachstan which forced nearly half of the Russians to leave the country.

Under those circumstances you can't blame the Kazachstan born Russians for wanting to play for Russia. Kazachs missed the opportunity to build up a relationship between the ethnic groups in the country and prevent existing structures from deteriorating i.e. also the hockey schools and clubs.

Now they have only few ethnic Kazachs playing hockey at a higher level and only few ethnic Russians or ppl of other nationalities born in Kazachstan who want to play for them.
Makes sense!

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04-01-2013, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atas2000 View Post
The probelm is ppl from the outside don't understand what nationality means in the former soviet countries. In most european countries and especially in NA due to historical circumstances ppl see nationality determined by place of birth. It's different to us. The Soviet Union was a multinational country and so are Russia and Kazakhstan now. Russians in Kazachstan would still identify themselves as Russians. And there is not a single kazach name on yout list. Russians except for Birbraer(German. There is a german minority in Kazachstan) and Kolesnik(probably ukrainian or belorussian roots).

There is also a fact Kazachstan treated the russian "minority" (about 40% of population in soviet times. Now only 23%) with severe racism after the proclamation of independance by Kazachstan which forced nearly half of the Russians to leave the country.

Under those circumstances you can't blame the Kazachstan born Russians for wanting to play for Russia. Kazachs missed the opportunity to build up a relationship between the ethnic groups in the country and prevent existing structures from deteriorating i.e. also the hockey schools and clubs.

Now they have only few ethnic Kazachs playing hockey at a higher level and only few ethnic Russians or ppl of other nationalities born in Kazachstan who want to play for them.
Obviously, wild nationalism did decrease the Russian population in most post-Soviet countries, but to think that's to blame for where Kazakh hockey nowadays belongs, is ridiculous.

These players no doubt think that they are 100% Russians and obviously it's true, but they left for better opportunities and money, most of players that left during mid-nineties and didn't amount to much returned and proudly played for Kazakh NT.

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04-02-2013, 07:26 AM
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Antropov shouldn't be on this list because he did continue to play for Kazakhstan, he played in 06 Olympics. He can't play for Kazakhstan when they're in D1 even if his team misses playoffs because it still clashes with NHL regular season.

Anyway with exception of Birbraer I would wager that if these guys had never left they wouldn't have become the hockey players they are now.

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04-02-2013, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
Antropov shouldn't be on this list because he did continue to play for Kazakhstan, he played in 06 Olympics. He can't play for Kazakhstan when they're in D1 even if his team misses playoffs because it still clashes with NHL regular season.

Anyway with exception of Birbraer I would wager that if these guys had never left they wouldn't have become the hockey players they are now.
I think the OP meant the team with both current + "possible" players, and Antropov surely is a top six guy no matter what.

Hypothetically: I don't know enough of the rest of the roster they could field, but those top guys would probably rival Belarus in a normal year and the goaltending would be set to compete and in all likelihood make them a regular top tier team.

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04-02-2013, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaginary Threats View Post
Antropov shouldn't be on this list because he did continue to play for Kazakhstan, he played in 06 Olympics. He can't play for Kazakhstan when they're in D1 even if his team misses playoffs because it still clashes with NHL regular season.

Anyway with exception of Birbraer I would wager that if these guys had never left they wouldn't have become the hockey players they are now.
IIRC, Antropov joined the national team last year in the WC, but couldn't play due to injury. He's willing to represent them in WC play.

And how did Grabner, Vanek and Mursak all represent their nations in D1 play in the past few years?

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04-02-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
IIRC, Antropov joined the national team last year in the WC, but couldn't play due to injury. He's willing to represent them in WC play.

And how did Grabner, Vanek and Mursak all represent their nations in D1 play in the past few years?
NHL regular season finishes a little earlier than I thought, I got confused because the short season this year is finishing later, my bad

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04-02-2013, 10:42 AM
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Shafranov is the 44 year old Konstantin Shafranov?

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04-02-2013, 11:03 AM
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Atas2000
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
Obviously, wild nationalism did decrease the Russian population in most post-Soviet countries, but to think that's to blame for where Kazakh hockey nowadays belongs, is ridiculous.

These players no doubt think that they are 100% Russians and obviously it's true, but they left for better opportunities and money, most of players that left during mid-nineties and didn't amount to much returned and proudly played for Kazakh NT.
Do you really know what was going on in Kazachstan back then? Just think of it. Most hockey schools and claubs were run by russian coaches and staff. Some of them had to face it personally some had it in the family. If you wife and children lose their jobs because tey are no ethnic Kazachs. Even if you can stay coach for the kids at a hockey school, you can't support your family with what you earn and the family is all for leaving. You pack it up and go to Russia. Is there an ethnic kazach coach there as a replacement? No. I think it's obvious I'm talking about a real life case I'm personnaly familiar with. Is the connection to decline of kazach hockey so ridiculous?

The situation is different now in Kazachstan. The nationalist thing is mostly settled, but you reap what you sow. They've dug a hole with what they did back then.

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04-02-2013, 11:08 AM
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Better keep this directly hockey-related, guys. No politics or similar subjects, please.

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04-02-2013, 12:20 PM
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russianhockey
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Kevin Dallman will play for kazakhstan@ the upcoming world championsh (2. div.)

source: Шайба.KZ

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04-03-2013, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by russianhockeyDOTde View Post
Kevin Dallman will play for kazakhstan@ the upcoming world championsh (2. div.)

source: Шайба.KZ
If that is true it seems to contradict what was written in this article where it says that he never became a citizen and was basically kicked out of the country last year.

http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2012/04...isnt-over-wife

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04-03-2013, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk View Post
If that is true it seems to contradict what was written in this article where it says that he never became a citizen and was basically kicked out of the country last year.

http://www.wellandtribune.ca/2012/04...isnt-over-wife
I guess you didn't get a memo, that he already played for Kazakhstan in February Olympic qualification, right? And what's even more funny, his fatal mistake on blue line basically cost Kazakhstan the qualification, so he needs to make up for it this spring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8opLfSUyio


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04-03-2013, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I guess you didn't get a memo, that he already played for Kazakhstan in February Olympic qualification, right? And what's even more funny, his fatal mistake on blue line basically cost Kazakhstan the qualification, so he needs to make up for it this spring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8opLfSUyio
I'd like to see a replay from another angle of that disallowed goal!

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04-03-2013, 08:43 PM
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I'd like to see a replay from another angle of that disallowed goal!
It's our home game, no other angles are possible.

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04-04-2013, 12:12 AM
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Mr Kanadensisk
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Originally Posted by ozo View Post
I guess you didn't get a memo, that he already played for Kazakhstan in February Olympic qualification, right? And what's even more funny, his fatal mistake on blue line basically cost Kazakhstan the qualification, so he needs to make up for it this spring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8opLfSUyio
Wow, I had no idea. I don't really like it when players change nations but nonetheless a nice pick up for Kazakhstan, he's arguably their best player now.

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04-04-2013, 10:25 AM
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How many players would Kazakhstan have if they couldn't use those from Ust-Kamengorsk. That's the interesting question.

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04-04-2013, 01:34 PM
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I actually interviewed Antropov at a Jets practice a few weeks ago and the article should be on the IIHF website soon so hopefully ya'll can check it out.

He had some good statements regarding Kazakhstani hockey.

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04-04-2013, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by nabby12 View Post
I actually interviewed Antropov at a Jets practice a few weeks ago and the article should be on the IIHF website soon so hopefully ya'll can check it out.

He had some good statements regarding Kazakhstani hockey.
Awesome! Bump this thread when it's up and I'll check it out.

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04-09-2013, 10:11 AM
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http://www.iihf.com/home-of-hockey/n...ash=6e162cb23b

here you go

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04-10-2013, 12:01 AM
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I was just reading through the thread and would like to comment on some things about hockey in KZ. First of all after the fall of the USSR, there was no money at all for hockey, the gas would shut off every other day, nobody cared at all about hockey. So right after 1991, the majority of the top coaches and players left KZ for RUS were the conditions were a better. I seriously think that nationalism/racism did not play a role in the departure of top players. As for the reason that the majority of the national team is ethnically russian is because Ust-kamenogorsk was/is predominately russian. Look at the current u-18 team, there are much more ethnic kazakhs, because there are hockey schools in other places with more ethinic kazakh populations. Also even though about 40% of the population is ethnically russian, they all in the north of the country, where hockey is popular, so russians outnumber kazakhs in many cities where hockey is popular. Only in the past several years has KZ hockey been on an uprise, and the future looks really good, funding for hockey is there, and more kids are starting to play. Hopefully the NT can consistently stay in the elite devision in the years to come. BTW nice article about Antropov, always great to see anything about KZ hockey on iihf.

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