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Old
04-26-2005, 09:13 AM
  #51
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Sidney looking at Europe

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?id=122912
"
Brisson says even if the NHL and the NHLPA work out a new collective bargaining agreement, caps on entry-level salaries could still make it more profitable for Crosby to play outside of North America.

Under the last collective bargaining agreement, rookies in the NHL were limited to a base salary of $1.25-million a season. However, the deal does not take into effect various incentive clauses, which have helped to drive rookie salaries higher. Talks on a new deal seem to indicate those loopholes could be closed as well.
"

What a marketing bonanza to have both Crosby and Ovechkin on the same team.

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04-26-2005, 09:31 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La-La-Laprise
What you dont understand is just how strong Crosby is. People look at his 5'10 height and autmatically figure that he is a soft player. Anyone who has every watched him play would be able to tell you he plays like a tank.

You can worry all you want about Crosby not being able to hold up in the NHL but in my opinion you are out to lunch on it. If players like Daniel Briere can last in the NHL Crosby will have no problem. He is gritty, despite being "small"
I agree I don't think Crosby will have any more problems than anyone else. Who looked at Lindros when he was 18 and said he can't take the pounding at the NHL level? There are more to injuries than body type. Crosby is smart enough to survive just fine.

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04-26-2005, 09:38 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
I agree I don't think Crosby will have any more problems than anyone else. Who looked at Lindros when he was 18 and said he can't take the pounding at the NHL level? There are more to injuries than body type. Crosby is smart enough to survive just fine.
Lindros was a much bigger player, and played in one of the Canada Cups before he played in the NHL.

Sidney isn't very big, but if he adjusts his game will do just fine.

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04-26-2005, 10:07 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Lindros was a much bigger player,
And we're talking MUCH.

The pre-concussion Lindros was basically the ultimate hockey player.

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04-26-2005, 10:43 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
Lindros was a much bigger player, and played in one of the Canada Cups before he played in the NHL.

Sidney isn't very big, but if he adjusts his game will do just fine.
That's my point. Lindros was a lot bigger and look at the problems he has had. There a number of small players who have gone virtually injury free in their careers, so how do you say Crosby won't last because he is only 5'10.

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04-26-2005, 10:47 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PepNCheese
And we're talking MUCH.

The pre-concussion Lindros was basically the ultimate hockey player.
Lindros will never be "an ultimate" hockey player in my mind because part of being a good hockey player is being a team player. If you are going to sign up for a league that has a draft, and the draft determines where you play in that league, then you go play for the team that drafts you. If you have a list of cities you don't want to play in, than find another league that doesn't include those cities. I'll never want Lindros on my team, pre concussion or not.

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Old
04-26-2005, 10:47 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
That's my point. Lindros was a lot bigger and look at the problems he has had. There a number of small players who have gone virtually injury free in their careers, so how do you say Crosby won't last because he is only 5'10.
I'm saying if Sidney plays a smarter game, and doesn't try and be a physical player like he showed in the WJC, he'll be fine. He doesn't need to be physical, and frankly, I don't think he'd last that way in the NHL.

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04-26-2005, 10:52 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
Lindros will never be "an ultimate" hockey player in my mind because part of being a good hockey player is being a team player. If you are going to sign up for a league that has a draft, and the draft determines where you play in that league, then you go play for the team that drafts you. If you have a list of cities you don't want to play in, than find another league that doesn't include those cities. I'll never want Lindros on my team, pre concussion or not.
I don't hold anything against Lindros for standing up and saying I'm my own person and billionaires cannot buy me.

Lots of people will do anything for money, kill, sex-trade, whatever, he said money wouldn't get him to Quebec.

Seems many people dislike individuals with a mind of their own. I chalk it up to envy.

I still find it funny, some people hold it against the Lindros that they wouldn't let the OHL tell them where there teenage son could live. As a parent I say to the Lindros, BRAVO!!

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04-26-2005, 10:54 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I'm saying if Sidney plays a smarter game, and doesn't try and be a physical player like he showed in the WJC, he'll be fine. He doesn't need to be physical, and frankly, I don't think he'd last that way in the NHL.
I don't think it's his best interest to try to be a physically dominating player. He is too smart for that. However, Wendel Clark 5'11, 197 lbs. Crosby, 5'10 175 lbs. You think he would survive as long as Wendel if he bulks up (which obviously he isn't done growing)?

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04-26-2005, 10:58 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I don't hold anything against Lindros for standing up and saying I'm my own person and billionaires cannot buy me.

Lots of people will do anything for money, kill, sex-trade, whatever, he said money wouldn't get him to Quebec.

Seems many people dislike individuals with a mind of their own. I chalk it up to envy.

I still find it funny, some people hold it against the Lindros that they wouldn't let the OHL tell them where there teenage son could live. As a parent I say to the Lindros, BRAVO!!
that's fine if he didn't want to live in Quebec. But the league that you are making yourself available to doesn't give you that choice. Play by the rules or go play somewhere else.

There is a little difference between a teenager choosing the OHL team and a man choosing not to go to Quebec.

And you hit it right on the head, I'm envious of Lindros.

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04-26-2005, 11:02 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
that's fine if he didn't want to live in Quebec. But the league that you are making yourself available to doesn't give you that choice. Play by the rules or go play somewhere else.

There is a little difference between a teenager choosing the OHL team and a man choosing not to go to Quebec.

And you hit it right on the head, I'm envious of Lindros.
Lindros did exactly what you said he should.

He said no thanks, I'm not interested. He didn't say, give me $90 million dollars and I'll sign.

Where do you find fault in his actions?

Tell me what he did that was wrong.

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04-26-2005, 11:09 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
Lindros did exactly what you said he should.

He said no thanks, I'm not interested. He didn't say, give me $90 million dollars and I'll sign.

Where do you find fault in his actions?

Tell me what he did that was wrong.
He held the team that drafted him hostage. If it was a league where you pick the team you want to play for, like the beer leagues, he did nothing wrong. He obviously was the best player available and Quebec "earned" the right to draft him, as drawn out by the league rules. Saying I'll never play there so don't draft me, and then refusing to sign until they traded his right to any other team was wrong. You don't see any fault in his actions?

He didn't say I'm not interested, he said I'm not interested in 2 teams. Skill wise, top of the class at the time. Class was, not even close.

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Old
04-26-2005, 11:16 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
He held the team that drafted him hostage. If it was a league where you pick the team you want to play for, like the beer leagues, he did nothing wrong. He obviously was the best player available and Quebec "earned" the right to draft him, as drawn out by the league rules. Saying I'll never play there so don't draft me, and then refusing to sign until they traded his right to any other team was wrong. You don't see any fault in his actions?

He didn't say I'm not interested, he said I'm not interested in 2 teams. Skill wise, top of the class at the time. Class was, not even close.
Quebec didn't earn anything from Lindros. Quebec earned the right, from the league, to select first in a draft that has no legal bearing on anyone outside their organization.

I see nothing wrong with what he did ... but I live in Canada where people have rights, not in a dictatorship.

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04-26-2005, 11:28 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
Quebec didn't earn anything from Lindros. Quebec earned the right, from the league, to select first in a draft that has no legal bearing on anyone outside their organization.

I see nothing wrong with what he did ... but I live in Canada where people have rights, not in a dictatorship.
Of course they have rights. His rights were to play for the team who drafts him, or play in the league. If my employer came to me and said we are moving the office to Toronto and you're going with it. I have the right to say, no thanks I'll go find another job, or go. I don't have right to say I'll stay with the company but go to an office anywhere but Toronto. Don't give the dictatorship crap. It's the leagues rules. The constitution has no bearing.

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04-26-2005, 11:40 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
Of course they have rights. His rights were to play for the team who drafts him, or play in the league. If my employer came to me and said we are moving the office to Toronto and you're going with it. I have the right to say, no thanks I'll go find another job, or go. I don't have right to say I'll stay with the company but go to an office anywhere but Toronto. Don't give the dictatorship crap. It's the leagues rules. The constitution has no bearing.
They were not his employer.

You are correct, it was the league rules and applied to the league and its' employees.

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04-26-2005, 11:40 AM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
Of course they have rights. His rights were to play for the team who drafts him, or play in the league. If my employer came to me and said we are moving the office to Toronto and you're going with it. I have the right to say, no thanks I'll go find another job, or go. I don't have right to say I'll stay with the company but go to an office anywhere but Toronto. Don't give the dictatorship crap. It's the leagues rules. The constitution has no bearing.
Just to interject ..

Couple of points .. Signing an NHL contract is optional and also the players decision ..

The old CBA stated that the drafting team has 2 years to come to an agreement or the player either re-enters the draft again a second time or becomes an UFA depending on his age ..

So in a way Crosby has lots of control .. He could simply go play a couple of years in Europe or the AHL etc and wait out the 2 years and see what happens .. he is only 17 now , in a couple years after earning money equal to his NHL entry level contract he could then re-enter the draft ..

However the team that originally drafted him would be silly to lose his rights for nothing and it would be in their best interest to re-create the Lindros situation and trade his rights for the best deal they can get .. Esentially Crosby forcing them to trade him or lose him if he refuses to sign ..

The only risk Crosby takes is the 1 in 30 chance that the team that drafted him originallly, also gets the 1st pick in the draft 2 years after originally drafted and takes him again ..

Crosby Considering Europe ..via TSN
Brisson says even if the NHL and the NHLPA work out a new collective bargaining agreement, caps on entry-level salaries could still make it more profitable for Crosby to play outside of North America.

Under the last collective bargaining agreement, rookies in the NHL were limited to a base salary of $1.25-million a season. However, the deal does not take into effect various incentive clauses, which have helped to drive rookie salaries higher. Talks on a new deal seem to indicate those loopholes could be closed as well.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...12&hubName=nhl


Last edited by Mess: 04-26-2005 at 11:48 AM.
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Old
04-26-2005, 11:47 AM
  #67
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Couple of points .. Signing an NHL contract is optional and also the players decision ..
that is correct. and if they could have afforded to Quebec should have let him sit for 2 years. But of course, they would not have gotten anything for him.

Quote:
So in a way Crosby has lots of control .. He could simply go play a couple of years in Europe or the AHL etc and wait out the 2 years and see what happens .. he is only 17 now , in a couple years after earning money equal to his NHL entry level contract he could then re-enter the draft ..
I'll give you Europe, but is the AHL an option (assuming there is NHL hockey next year)? Either way, yeah he has some options. Doesn't help me like Lindros any more.

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04-26-2005, 11:50 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by ULF_55
They were not his employer.

You are correct, it was the league rules and applied to the league and its' employees.
Yes, they were not his employer. But, they held the rights for his employment - at least in that league.

I have no problem with you seeing nothing wrong with what he did. It's a difference of opinion. But you'll never convince me to think that way. And I assume I'll never convince you otherwise...

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04-26-2005, 12:01 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Around in 67
that is correct. and if they could have afforded to Quebec should have let him sit for 2 years. But of course, they would not have gotten anything for him..
Getting nothing verses getting a kings ransom for a potential Franchise player should help the drafting team in its decision making process ..



Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
I'll give you Europe, but is the AHL an option (assuming there is NHL hockey next year)? Either way, yeah he has some options. Doesn't help me like Lindros any more.
I included a link in the previous post the Crosby is considering Europe even if a deal is reached as Bettman's new CBA offers young players to make more money outside the NHL ..

The AHL is an option .. The Chicago Wolves are a independently owned team with no NHL affiliation so they could sign Crosby to whatever offer they wanted to .. If the lockout continues and Crosby is not selected in a draft then the whole AHL opens up to him .. If the league returns and the he is drafted, I guess it gets a little more complicated with rights being involved but signing an AHL contract only really does not effect NHL rights really, but some owners may not cross the line for moral reason rather then legal .. however if Crosby wants to say in Canada he could chose the Marlies or Hamilton Bulldogs, and that move would make both NHL teams lots of money by that signing ..

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04-26-2005, 12:15 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Around in 67
Yes, they were not his employer. But, they held the rights for his employment - at least in that league.

I have no problem with you seeing nothing wrong with what he did. It's a difference of opinion. But you'll never convince me to think that way. And I assume I'll never convince you otherwise...
I would have had no problem had they re-drafted him if he went back in the draft, and then said you play here or sit out until you're 31.

The choice would have been up to him.

Same with teams signing players to too big of a contract because they are sitting out. Let them sit!!

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04-26-2005, 12:22 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I don't hold anything against Lindros for standing up and saying I'm my own person and billionaires cannot buy me.

Lots of people will do anything for money, kill, sex-trade, whatever, he said money wouldn't get him to Quebec.

Seems many people dislike individuals with a mind of their own. I chalk it up to envy.

I still find it funny, some people hold it against the Lindros that they wouldn't let the OHL tell them where there teenage son could live. As a parent I say to the Lindros, BRAVO!!
So, you actually think that Lindros' refusal to play in Quebec and desire to play in a major market wasn't motivated by money and was a matter of principle?

Har-de-har.

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04-26-2005, 12:25 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ULF_55
I would have had no problem had they re-drafted him if he went back in the draft, and then said you play here or sit out until you're 31.

The choice would have been up to him.

Same with teams signing players to too big of a contract because they are sitting out. Let them sit!!
You talk about letting players sit as if it doesn't have a negative effect on the team when in fact it has a major effect. Have the leafs ever been through one?

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04-26-2005, 12:25 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by The Messenger
Just to interject ..

Couple of points .. Signing an NHL contract is optional and also the players decision ..

The old CBA stated that the drafting team has 2 years to come to an agreement or the player either re-enters the draft again a second time or becomes an UFA depending on his age ..

So in a way Crosby has lots of control .. He could simply go play a couple of years in Europe or the AHL etc and wait out the 2 years and see what happens .. he is only 17 now , in a couple years after earning money equal to his NHL entry level contract he could then re-enter the draft ..

However the team that originally drafted him would be silly to lose his rights for nothing and it would be in their best interest to re-create the Lindros situation and trade his rights for the best deal they can get .. Esentially Crosby forcing them to trade him or lose him if he refuses to sign ..

The only risk Crosby takes is the 1 in 30 chance that the team that drafted him originallly, also gets the 1st pick in the draft 2 years after originally drafted and takes him again ..

Crosby Considering Europe ..via TSN
Brisson says even if the NHL and the NHLPA work out a new collective bargaining agreement, caps on entry-level salaries could still make it more profitable for Crosby to play outside of North America.

Under the last collective bargaining agreement, rookies in the NHL were limited to a base salary of $1.25-million a season. However, the deal does not take into effect various incentive clauses, which have helped to drive rookie salaries higher. Talks on a new deal seem to indicate those loopholes could be closed as well.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp...12&hubName=nhl
Reebok paid Crosby all that money to wear their gear in the NHL, not in the SEL, RSL or any of these other European leagues.

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04-26-2005, 01:26 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooseOAK
So, you actually think that Lindros' refusal to play in Quebec and desire to play in a major market wasn't motivated by money and was a matter of principle?

Har-de-har.
Who cares. It was his right.

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04-26-2005, 01:28 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by barrel_master
You talk about letting players sit as if it doesn't have a negative effect on the team when in fact it has a major effect. Have the leafs ever been through one?
I don't care if it would have a major negative impact.

I'll use the pro-owners stance ... just replace him with someone else, players are interchangeable and not the product, the game is.

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