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Old
04-02-2013, 12:10 PM
  #226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
But Quincey wasn't a playoff rental. He was aquired for future season services when Stuart and Lidström are leaving. That also gave defensive depth for the 2012 season at same time. Why is this so hard to understand?

They traded for Quincey to replace Stuart half of a year earlier, because free agency does not guarantee anything. Trade gives you a guaranteed player, in this case RFA player.

Then they went after UFA Suter trying to replace Lidström. But like free agency does not guarantee anything, this later one didn't happen.

Pretty clear plan if you think a minute of it.

sorry buddy, but adding Q doesnt provide depth. With that logic, adding any defensemen must provide depth right? depth is players that actually do something, provide a spark, and are noticeable.

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04-02-2013, 12:10 PM
  #227
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If Holland isn't buying, he needs to be selling.

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04-02-2013, 12:11 PM
  #228
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Lebrun said St Louis structured the deal so that the Flames get their 2014 first rounder. I don't know how connected he is but it sounds like the issue was giving up a first, even if it's in 2014. So again: Q is worth a 1st but Bouwmeester is not? Sure seems like Kenny's pucker muscle went into BEASTMODE.
Oh for pete's sake. If Quincey isn't worth a 1st, then Bouwmeester isn't worth a first. If Quincey is, then Bouwmeester is. YOU CAN'T HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. Where's some integrity? Good grief. Why are you complaining? I thought a couple weeks back we were hoping the wings would crash and burn on our road trip so no assets would be "wasted" in a trade. Now all you guys are doing are crucifying Holland because he DIDN'T make a move. Damned if he does, and damned if he doesn't. What a great standard to hold.

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04-02-2013, 12:13 PM
  #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
If Holland isn't buying, he needs to be selling.
We like our team.

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04-02-2013, 12:13 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Henkka View Post
But Quincey wasn't a playoff rental. He was aquired for future season services when Stuart and Lidström are leaving. That also gave defensive depth for the 2012 season at same time. Why is this so hard to understand?

They traded for Quincey to replace Stuart half of a year earlier, because free agency does not guarantee anything. Trade gives you a guaranteed player, in this case RFA player.

Then they went after UFA Suter trying to replace Lidström. But like free agency does not guarantee anything, this later one didn't happen.

Pretty clear plan if you think a minute of it.
listen i am 100% against the idea of waiting till free agency to build a team, have said so for years, i think its a cheap inexcusable way to go about building a pro sports franchise as its a crap shoot

what I am in favour of is trading assets(including picks, prospects and roster players) for actual good NHL talent and that is why i, and many others, find it so puzzling that some are/were dead set against moving a 1st rounder for jay bouwmeester(actual NHL talent and actually what we need long term) but support/ed moving a 1st rounder for quincey. I find it odd is all

what I am not in favour of doing is wasting first round picks on bottom feeder dmen and depth forwards unless you are an elite cup contender team with its entire core under 30, which in 2012 we were not

quincey does not replace stuart, a robyn regher does.

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04-02-2013, 12:15 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Yes. Stupid Holland for missing out on a rental.
Rental or have players who have proven they provide nothing is the question ALL Red Wings fans should ask themselves. Do Wings fans want the days when they shipped picks and players out for better talent, or do you want to ride the pine of Eaves, Miller, Cleary, Floater Franzen, Lazy Sammy into the playoffs? Sure seems like majority in here love the Wings "depth" and have Hollands logic. Garbage. Detroit RW fans that live in this city, have ties to the team are fed up with this model. Its garbage. STH like myself are beg. to wonder if spending 8k per year is worth it when they have shown no IMPROVEMENT in 2/3 years. Same ol' hockey.

/ rant

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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
We like our team.

perfect example of why any logical statement made on here in terms of moving a player, gets ripped to shreds. to many homers who like favorite players. its about time you RW fans wake up and realize this team isnt much.

and yes, if holland isnt buying, he needs to be selling. who cares about a 1st rd loss or a streak. they come to an end no matter what, and id rather see them miss, wake holland the F up and hope he changes. doubtful tho

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04-02-2013, 12:20 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
We like our team.

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04-02-2013, 12:21 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huddy View Post
perfect example of why any logical statement made on here in terms of moving a player, gets ripped to shreds. to many homers who like favorite players. its about time you RW fans wake up and realize this team isnt much.

and yes, if holland isnt buying, he needs to be selling. who cares about a 1st rd loss or a streak. they come to an end no matter what, and id rather see them miss, wake holland the F up and hope he changes. doubtful tho
I was mocking what Holland would say, Huddy.

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04-02-2013, 12:21 PM
  #234
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
what I am in favour of is trading assets(including picks, prospects and roster players) for actual good NHL talent and that is why i, and many others, find it so puzzling that some are/were dead set against moving a 1st rounder for jay bouwmeester(actual NHL talent and actually what we need long term) but support/ed moving a 1st rounder for quincey. I find it odd is all
Not everyone is in love with Bouwmeester the way you are. That's why they weren't in favor of trading for him.

I didn't love the Quincey deal but I was obviously not in favor of JBo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huddy View Post
Rental or have players who have proven they provide nothing is the question ALL Red Wings fans should ask themselves. Do Wings fans want the days when they shipped picks and players out for better talent, or do you want to ride the pine of Eaves, Miller, Cleary, Floater Franzen, Lazy Sammy into the playoffs? Sure seems like majority in here love the Wings "depth" and have Hollands logic. Garbage. Detroit RW fans that live in this city, have ties to the team are fed up with this model. Its garbage. STH like myself are beg. to wonder if spending 8k per year is worth it when they have shown no IMPROVEMENT in 2/3 years. Same ol' hockey.
Actually, it's more that the majority in here agree with Holland that we shouldn't be renting players and should be going for players who can help in the future, and aren't pending UFAs this season.

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04-02-2013, 12:27 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
Not everyone is in love with Bouwmeester the way you are. That's why they weren't in favor of trading for him.

I didn't love the Quincey deal but I was obviously not in favor of JBo.



Actually, it's more that the majority in here agree with Holland that we shouldn't be renting players and should be going for players who can help in the future, and aren't pending UFAs this season.
MOD

yah I am in love with bouwmeester, nah I actually dont live in dream land where we sign all the top notch UFA's to make it all better and if not, well, just blame it on girlfriends and curses and fairies and wizards to make ourselves feel better


Last edited by Fugu: 04-02-2013 at 01:20 PM. Reason: respond to the post, not the poster
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04-02-2013, 12:31 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post

yah I am in love with bouwmeester, nah I actually dont live in dream land where we sign all the top notch UFA's to make it all better and if not, well, just blame it on girlfriends and curses and fairies and wizards to make ourselves feel better

But I have not the slightest idea what the rest of your post is supposed to mean.


Last edited by Fugu: 04-02-2013 at 01:20 PM. Reason: qep
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04-02-2013, 12:32 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by SoupNazi View Post
But I have not the slightest idea what the rest of your post is supposed to mean.
hahaha neither do I

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04-02-2013, 12:42 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I was mocking what Holland would say, Huddy.
If he doesn't trade some of our 'depth'- since prices are obviously so high why not take advantage!! - then he really needs to seek help for his hoarding problem.

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04-02-2013, 01:07 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huddy View Post
sorry buddy, but adding Q doesnt provide depth. With that logic, adding any defensemen must provide depth right? depth is players that actually do something, provide a spark, and are noticeable.
It's one thing that Q hasn't been what we've hoped for but this is downright false. Q was a 20 minute man on both his previous clubs with decent production, and 26 years old. That is a legit move for depth that could've worked out but didn't(or at least isn't looking like it will) with hindsight.

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04-02-2013, 01:23 PM
  #240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain View Post
listen i am 100% against the idea of waiting till free agency to build a team, have said so for years, i think its a cheap inexcusable way to go about building a pro sports franchise as its a crap shoot

what I am in favour of is trading assets(including picks, prospects and roster players) for actual good NHL talent and that is why i, and many others, find it so puzzling that some are/were dead set against moving a 1st rounder for jay bouwmeester(actual NHL talent and actually what we need long term) but support/ed moving a 1st rounder for quincey. I find it odd is all

what I am not in favour of doing is wasting first round picks on bottom feeder dmen and depth forwards unless you are an elite cup contender team with its entire core under 30, which in 2012 we were not

quincey does not replace stuart, a robyn regher does.
If that doesn't go 1-by-1 for you, let's say that the development of Ericsson replaces Stuart and Quincey replaces the 2011-12 Ericsson. Better now?

And how about after 4 years, is Stuart still better as 37-year old than thse guys in their prime? You just can't think so one-dimensional.

Either way, still this is a clear plan to have those two defencemen Ericsson & Quincey as defensive specialists (season ice time usage is a clear indicator for this), and the same guys were Ericsson and Stuart a year before.

Stuart out, Quincey in. Holland knew at last trade line that Stuart is leaving, and made the move.


Last edited by Henkka: 04-02-2013 at 01:29 PM.
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04-02-2013, 01:24 PM
  #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
The other thing to consider is the number of NHL-caliber prospects we have in our system.

The Wings prospect system has NEVER been this rich, as far as I can remember.
Yes, but that's still a few years off. Wouldn't it be better to bring them up to a core that had:

JBo, Kronner, Smitty, and Kindl/Quincey..... errr Ericsson? I like the first three basically, and after that find everyone else optional.


Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Lebrun said St Louis structured the deal so that the Flames get their 2014 first rounder. I don't know how connected he is but it sounds like the issue was giving up a first, even if it's in 2014. So again: Q is worth a 1st but Bouwmeester is not? Sure seems like Kenny's pucker muscle went into BEASTMODE.
In a nutshell. Mystifying.

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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
It's one thing that Q hasn't been what we've hoped for but this is downright false. Q was a 20 minute man on both his previous clubs with decent production, and 26 years old. That is a legit move for depth that could've worked out but didn't(or at least isn't looking like it will) with hindsight.
I think he has panned out. He was very solid for the Wings right before he got injured. Finally falling into place as a good #4, with reasonably good mobility.

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04-02-2013, 01:25 PM
  #242
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On Boumeester vs. Quincey.

How many of us here actually liked the Quincey deal? Saying we wouldn't trade a 1st for Boumeester doesn't mean we agree(d) with trading a 1st for Quincey. The Quincey deal was and is still a bad trade. Neither are worth 1sts, IMO.


Holland is actually holding onto (or saving it for a better player) our 1st like many have been begging him too and now everyone is pissed that he didn't trade it for J-Bo. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Just because Holland traded a 1st for Quincey and Boumeester is better than Quincey doesn't mean we should trade one for him too. Maybe he learned from his mistake!

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04-02-2013, 01:29 PM
  #243
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Props to KH for refusing to trade this years #1. Oh how i wish we could get another #1 in this years draft, so many good prospects.

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04-02-2013, 01:32 PM
  #244
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Props to KH for refusing to trade this years #1. Oh how i wish we could get another #1 in this years draft, so many good prospects.
The first round pick is in 2014. Hey, if prices are too high then let's trade some depth and stockpile draft picks. Does anyone really expect that to happen?

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04-02-2013, 01:44 PM
  #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Poppa Puck View Post
On Boumeester vs. Quincey.

How many of us here actually liked the Quincey deal? Saying we wouldn't trade a 1st for Boumeester doesn't mean we agree(d) with trading a 1st for Quincey. The Quincey deal was and is still a bad trade. Neither are worth 1sts, IMO.


Holland is actually holding onto (or saving it for a better player) our 1st like many have been begging him too and now everyone is pissed that he didn't trade it for J-Bo. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Just because Holland traded a 1st for Quincey and Boumeester is better than Quincey doesn't mean we should trade one for him too. Maybe he learned from his mistake!

Do the Wings need a top pairing defenseman?

Is JBo a top pairing defenseman?


If you answer yes to both, then a first is a small price to pay. We've got several first round picks coming up now, and only Smitty seems to be someone who may actually become a legit top pairing guy at some point.

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04-02-2013, 03:08 PM
  #246
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The first round pick is in 2014. Hey, if prices are too high then let's trade some depth and stockpile draft picks. Does anyone really expect that to happen?
I believe it's only a first next year if the Blues miss the playoffs this year, in which case the Flames get a fourth this year added on. Otherwise the first is this year.

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04-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #247
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Bouwmeester is a career loser and I for one am relieved we didn't get him.

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04-02-2013, 03:57 PM
  #248
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Bouwmeester is a career loser and I for one am relieved we didn't get him.
No team is better positioned to be the LA Kings of 2013 than St. Louis.

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04-02-2013, 04:04 PM
  #249
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I believe it's only a first next year if the Blues miss the playoffs this year, in which case the Flames get a fourth this year added on. Otherwise the first is this year.
That's not what Pierre Lebrun reports. He said the Blues traded the 2014 first rounder.

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04-02-2013, 04:06 PM
  #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Poppa Puck View Post
On Boumeester vs. Quincey.

How many of us here actually liked the Quincey deal? Saying we wouldn't trade a 1st for Boumeester doesn't mean we agree(d) with trading a 1st for Quincey. The Quincey deal was and is still a bad trade. Neither are worth 1sts, IMO.


Holland is actually holding onto (or saving it for a better player) our 1st like many have been begging him too and now everyone is pissed that he didn't trade it for J-Bo. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Just because Holland traded a 1st for Quincey and Boumeester is better than Quincey doesn't mean we should trade one for him too. Maybe he learned from his mistake!
Like said in many times. You can't compare the return of last season's DET 1st to this season DET 1st.

This year it has a potential to be TOP10-20 pick in a better draft. At Last season, it was a 29th pick on the trade time in a weak draft (after Top10 picks). Holland said this by himself.

This year is different. Our scouting staff knows that there will better guys available with this years pick. So Holland refuses to trade it because our future plans are more important. And that's nothing but a right move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedWingsNow View Post
No team is better positioned to be the LA Kings of 2013 than St. Louis.
The Blues have the best defence now. But the great goaltending is still missing.

I think the "Kings of 2013" will be the Los Angeles Kings again. They just have so great package, offense, defence and goaltending, when Quick is getting better shape after that back surgery.

Lockout helped also with the Stanley Cup hangover, when the summer rest was much longer. I'm not any kind of surpriced if they repeat.

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