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Jay Bouwmeester traded to Blues

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04-01-2013, 11:44 PM
  #251
TheHudlinator
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Originally Posted by HighLifeMan View Post
I am going on both reports and statistics that have suggested he has struggled. They were posted all over the place after he was traded [ go figure ], and obviously his play did not inspire confidence in the managerial team in Pittsburgh if he was traded for an ageing third line rental. I saw him play plenty of times in Junior, but that was not what I was referencing obviously...

There is also a distinct difference between a 12 game sample size and a 56 game sample size.
Thats fine but what I am telling you is he looked far better than he played, but I wouldn't call him a top prospect. But he would be our best defensive prospect right now.

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04-01-2013, 11:46 PM
  #252
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Personally, with an offer like this I would've waited till the draft to move him.

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04-01-2013, 11:53 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Flames92 View Post
Personally, with an offer like this I would've waited till the draft to move him.
...why? The cap drops, so it's not gonna help in any way. Dealing him now was the Flames best bet. Teams can take on the cap right now as well, and would be looking to get a boost for the playoffs. If you wait until the draft, teams are going to be MORE reluctant.

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04-01-2013, 11:58 PM
  #254
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You guys need to look on the bright side, Yeah these aren't top prospects but I have seen Cundari a ton in Windsor and he is exactly like a young Giordano. Same type of game and he will be a fan fav for sure.

He's very strong on the puck as well so I'm not sure where you guys are reading your scouting reports.

I'd also like to pint out that the 42nd overall pick moved Buffalo up 7 spots from 21st to 14th when they traded with us. If the Blues pick is 16-20 I bet Pittsburgh's pick moves us into top 10 easy. Imagine Drouin/Mac/Jones and Barkov/Nurse/Lindholm. Its a real possibility.

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04-02-2013, 12:00 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by TheHudlinator View Post
Thats fine but what I am telling you is he looked far better than he played, but I wouldn't call him a top prospect. But he would be our best defensive prospect right now.
Not saying you don't but when and where are you able to see these players play??

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04-02-2013, 12:02 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
Not saying you don't but when and where are you able to see these players play??
Some times you can find streams and I was desperate for hockey during the lockout.

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04-02-2013, 12:04 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Odd how Brenden Morrow having a NTC and a list didn't seem to handicap the Stars too much.
Every NTC is different in regards to how many teams you list to where you do or don't want to be traded. Morrow also isn't signed to a huge cap hit next year.

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04-02-2013, 12:07 AM
  #258
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Feaster is stockpiling firsts, but his real motive is tanking the team so they get a shot at Seth Jones.

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04-02-2013, 12:07 AM
  #259
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Sutter crippled Feaster when trying to deal Iggy and J-Bo. Only knock would be they should've dealt Iggy sooner, but that's probably an Ownership decision. J-Bo's value was as good as it was gonna get right now. IMO we are lucky to get the 1st.

I might be the only one not suicidal right now.
Iggy was not really Feaster's fault. It likely had to do with a mix of ownership issues (not wanting to rebuild), fan issues (how to handle moving such a storied player-See Sundin for an example of how to do it badly), and Iggy having complete power where he goes (and having earned that. No chance in hell would ownership or Feaster pressure in any way with the decision).

Bouwmeester is a completely different situation and frankly it's a terrible deal and should been seen as one of Feaster's biggest failures. The 1st is nice, and Cundari has potential. But having two lesser named prospects instead of a guy like Rattie? And not getting the first when Feaster wanted the first? Completely unacceptable. He had leverage in this deal. He could pressure Bouwmeester, and he had the choice to not trade him and wait till the summer.

I think it's hard for people to realize but Jay Bouwmeester is a top pairing dman on almost every team in this league. Is his contract big and likely paying him more than he is worth? Yeah, but he does more for his team than a good majority of other top pairing dman in this league. Armstrong himself said it best, he is elite. Not only is he elite but he's been an elite player with very little defensive help on a frnakly not great team. And the kicker? He's under 30 still.

It is not often that top pairing defenseman become available in this league. It's even rarer that they come available under the age of 30. Feaster should have been able to get more and did not. It's a failure of a trade and probably one of his worst yet.

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04-02-2013, 12:08 AM
  #260
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
Every NTC is different in regards to how many teams you list to where you do or don't want to be traded. Morrow also isn't signed to a huge cap hit next year.
There's full NTC's and limited NTC. Both Iginla and Morrow had the former. There's no difference between the two here.

And term might explain the Bouwmeester trade. But what about the Iginla trade then?

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04-02-2013, 12:12 AM
  #261
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...why? The cap drops, so it's not gonna help in any way. Dealing him now was the Flames best bet. Teams can take on the cap right now as well, and would be looking to get a boost for the playoffs. If you wait until the draft, teams are going to be MORE reluctant.
His value will not go down because of the cap dropping, he still has another year on his contract whether we trade him now or at the draft. This trade doesn't feel in anyway like a can't miss. The only difference trading him now does is help the tank.

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04-02-2013, 12:15 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
There's full NTC's and limited NTC. Both Iginla and Morrow had the former. There's no difference between the two here.

And term might explain the Bouwmeester trade. But what about the Iginla trade then?
Feaster made it clear, at least to me, that Iginla kinda bent him over on that trade, Boston had the best offer but Iggy wanted the Pens, simple as that. Also it is Bouwmeester contract that weighed down his value, word is the Blues tried hard to have the Flames eat salary but it wasn't happening.. I actually like the sound of this Cundari kid.. Looks up to Giordano and tries to model his game after him.

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04-02-2013, 12:15 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by theIceWookie View Post
Iggy was not really Feaster's fault. It likely had to do with a mix of ownership issues (not wanting to rebuild), fan issues (how to handle moving such a storied player-See Sundin for an example of how to do it badly), and Iggy having complete power where he goes (and having earned that. No chance in hell would ownership or Feaster pressure in any way with the decision).

Bouwmeester is a completely different situation and frankly it's a terrible deal and should been seen as one of Feaster's biggest failures. The 1st is nice, and Cundari has potential. But having two lesser named prospects instead of a guy like Rattie? And not getting the first when Feaster wanted the first? Completely unacceptable. He had leverage in this deal. He could pressure Bouwmeester, and he had the choice to not trade him and wait till the summer.

I think it's hard for people to realize but Jay Bouwmeester is a top pairing dman on almost every team in this league. Is his contract big and likely paying him more than he is worth? Yeah, but he does more for his team than a good majority of other top pairing dman in this league. Armstrong himself said it best, he is elite. Not only is he elite but he's been an elite player with very little defensive help on a frnakly not great team. And the kicker? He's under 30 still.

It is not often that top pairing defenseman become available in this league. It's even rarer that they come available under the age of 30. Feaster should have been able to get more and did not. It's a failure of a trade and probably one of his worst yet.
It's his worst by far.

The excuse for the Iginla trade was that the NTC screwed Feaster's ability to exercise leverage. Iginla was only willing to waive for Pittsburgh, so the return was less.

But with regards to Bouwmeester, it wasn't the same. There were multiple teams interested and there was no indication that Bouwmeester was willing to waive for only one team. Feaster or who ever is running this mess simply doesn't understand leverage or how to negotiate.

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04-02-2013, 12:18 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
It's his worst by far.

The excuse for the Iginla trade was that the NTC screwed Feaster's ability to exercise leverage. Iginla was only willing to waive for Pittsburgh, so the return was less.

But with regards to Bouwmeester, it wasn't the same. There were multiple teams interested and there was no indication that Bouwmeester was willing to waive for only one team. Feaster or who ever is running this mess simply doesn't understand leverage or how to negotiate.
I would think that at this point, it's above Feaster's head because as a lawyer he should have some ****ing idea how leverage and negotiations work.

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04-02-2013, 12:19 AM
  #265
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"I'm not a Flames fan, so I've got no reason to defend Feaster, but....a lot of people need to understand the ownership's involvement in this deal:

- had the Flames been willing to eat part of JBo's salary (a smart move, because they could then just keep trading away other players for picks and stay above the floor), then they likely could have gotten an even better return -- either from the Blues, or perhaps even another team. (Feaster even said, and TSN guys verified, that JBo's contract at full cap-hit left some other teams out of the running). Thus, the owners are part of why this package is what it is.

- let's go back to the Regehr trade now: Flames owners were cheap, and they essentially had to add a 2nd rounder to the deal (i.e. sell a pretty high draft pick) to get Buffalo to take Kotalik and his salary off his hands. They probably cold have done a straight up Regehr for Butler trade and kept their 2nd, which could have turned into a very good prospect, but their ownership are a bunch of cheap ********. You can't "sell" draft picks AND rebuild at the same time. This was not Feaster's fault either.

- and finally, Feaster wanted to make some of these trades last year or 2 years ago, but the Flames ownership wanted to try to win instead of rebuild back then. He could have significantly increased the return for guys like Iggy, Kiprusoff and others back then. As a Pens fan, I'm glad things worked out the way they did, but again, this is not Feaster's faul -- it's ownership's fault.

I'm not saying Feaster is a genius GM, but he's VERY much a figurehead GM, and now he's VERY much a scapegoat. The fact of the matter is his performance as a GM and in these trades cannot accurately be measured without taking into account these other factors. I'm actually pretty amazed that 99% of hockey fans on these boards are so ignorant to this fact." - Jmelem, HF Boards Sponsor
THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE TRUTH, NOW STOP HATIN ON THE FEASTY!

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04-02-2013, 12:19 AM
  #266
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I truly don't understand why Calgary needed to make this deal tonight.
It's very bad, like, very bad.
The first is lovely, but that means St.Louis has to get in the playoffs first of all. Once they do that, it's picking 15-18 again most likely.

I'm shocked he couldn't have got Rattie out of this deal. I mean, why didn't Calgary eat 50% of the contract and get something bigger at the draft?!

As I said, Flames jumped in with two feet. Only problem is whoever's pulling the strings on these trades seems to know very little about what we're getting. How about we stop picking up these "Hidden gems" and start picking up overall quality players?

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04-02-2013, 12:29 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmurfin View Post
Feaster made it clear, at least to me, that Iginla kinda bent him over on that trade, Boston had the best offer but Iggy wanted the Pens, simple as that. Also it is Bouwmeester contract that weighed down his value, word is the Blues tried hard to have the Flames eat salary but it wasn't happening.. I actually like the sound of this Cundari kid.. Looks up to Giordano and tries to model his game after him.
Feaster's a lawyer and an especially slimy one at that. Expect him to say whatever he can to make it appear as though he's blameless for anything that goes wrong.

He apparently, despite his many years as a lawyer and working in the NHL as an executive was too either too stupid or too incompetent, but most likely both, to understand that a player saying he'll consider waiving his NTC does not mean he had waived his NTC. Feaster got a verbal list of teams from Iginla and thought that was enough to tell Chiarelli that a deal was done, and then go to Iginla to finalize it. That whole fiasco wasn't Iginla screwing the Flames over, it was Feaster and co. once again proving their sheer and unparalleled incompetence.

I mean, even if the Pens were the only team Iginla was willing to waive to, how did the Pens find that out? Was Feaster stupid enough to tell Shero that Iginla was only interested in the Pens? The return was lacking; either the Pens knew that Iginla preferred them, or Weisbrod intentionally targeted lesser known players.

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04-02-2013, 12:30 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
It's his worst by far.

The excuse for the Iginla trade was that the NTC screwed Feaster's ability to exercise leverage. Iginla was only willing to waive for Pittsburgh, so the return was less.

But with regards to Bouwmeester, it wasn't the same. There were multiple teams interested and there was no indication that Bouwmeester was willing to waive for only one team. Feaster or who ever is running this mess simply doesn't understand leverage or how to negotiate.
It was utterly bad.

I just don't get how he couldn't get more. It is honestly beyond me. At this point, I'd have to agree with the poster who says Feaster is a figurehead. Someone within ownership decided that Bouwmeester must be moved now and isn't willing to wait till the draft.

Because I think the average fan could have gotten more for Bouwmeester than Feaster did. It simply isn't that hard to understand basic negotiating tactics. Getting Rattie instead of the two prospects would have made this deal so much easier to swallow.

Feaster better kill those first rounders, because at this point we don't have much more to look for.

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04-02-2013, 12:31 AM
  #269
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I truly don't understand why Calgary needed to make this deal tonight.
It's very bad, like, very bad.
The first is lovely, but that means St.Louis has to get in the playoffs first of all. Once they do that, it's picking 15-18 again most likely.

I'm shocked he couldn't have got Rattie out of this deal. I mean, why didn't Calgary eat 50% of the contract and get something bigger at the draft?!

As I said, Flames jumped in with two feet. Only problem is whoever's pulling the strings on these trades seems to know very little about what we're getting. How about we stop picking up these "Hidden gems" and start picking up overall quality players?
I'm sorry but god it gets annoying hearing fans talk like they know better than NHL management. Who knows, maybe your right, but at least give it a shot, we have no clue what we actually have yet. Not to mention, the "eat salary" part, seems to me that the ownership had absolutely no interest in that. So not exactly Feasters fault there.

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04-02-2013, 12:31 AM
  #270
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I understand the frustration but the Rattie hype on this board is getting very annoying.

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04-02-2013, 12:34 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Calculon View Post
Feaster's a lawyer and an especially slimy one at that. Expect him to say whatever he can to make it appear as though he's blameless for anything that goes wrong.

He apparently, despite his many years as a lawyer and working in the NHL as an executive was too either too stupid or too incompetent, but most likely both, to understand that a player saying he'll consider waiving his NTC does not mean he had waived his NTC. Feaster got a verbal list of teams from Iginla and thought that was enough to tell Chiarelli that a deal was done, and then go to Iginla to finalize it. That whole fiasco wasn't Iginla screwing the Flames over, it was Feaster and co. once again proving their sheer and unparalleled incompetence.

I mean, even if the Pens were the only team Iginla was willing to waive to, how did the Pens find that out? Was Feaster stupid enough to tell Shero that Iginla was only interested in the Pens? The return was lacking; either the Pens knew that Iginla preferred them, or Weisbrod intentionally targeted lesser known players.
Obviously it was lacking because that was all Shero was willing to offer, ever think about that? He already gave up Morrow, two 2nds, and would have to give up at least a 1st. Like I said, end of the day, Iginla chose the Penguins, what else could he do, they needed to trade him and soon, and the only place he would go was Puttsburgh and that's all they were offering. Which isn't terrible for a 35yr old rental.

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04-02-2013, 12:37 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
I understand the frustration but the Rattie hype on this board is getting very annoying.
Decent prospect. But I don't see his skills translating all that well, really wasn't that impressed after watching him a lot with Sven.

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04-02-2013, 12:39 AM
  #273
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Flames owners refused to pay for Kotalik to go on the farm, which resulted in a lesser return for Regehr. What makes you think they'd pay part of Bouwmeester's salary to play elsewhere?

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04-02-2013, 12:40 AM
  #274
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Decent prospect. But I don't see his skills translating all that well, really wasn't that impressed after watching him a lot with Sven.
He is but we can draft our own prospects with the 3 picks we have.

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04-02-2013, 12:40 AM
  #275
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Originally Posted by FLAMES666 View Post
I understand the frustration but the Rattie hype on this board is getting very annoying.
It's not that we are obsessed with Rattie but he was a realistic return. We know damn well were not getting Schwarts or Tarasenko so he was the next best thing.

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