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DAL trades Derek Roy to VAN for 2nd R '13/Kevin Connauton

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04-08-2013, 07:34 PM
  #151
BigG44
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Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I'm not really sure how you get to this conclusion now. Pre trades I would have agreed with you, but now that Roy and Jagr are gone without replacement the forward group has a huge hole at 2C. I'm not sold on Eakin to be that guy, and it is still too soon to expect Chiasson/Fraser/Smith to play a bona fide top 6 role at a solid NHL level. I think the current group has not fallen completely apart, partly because there is no more pressure to win, and that might fool some fans into forgetting that the Stars on paper have a bottom 3rd top 6.
I agree Eakin has to prove a bit more before I comfortable saying he's a long term solution as the 2nd center.

Regarding wingers though for next season. I'm not going to pick and choose names, but I think at least two of Alex Chiasson, Reilly Smith, Matt Fraser, and Brett Ritchie will easily fill Top 6 roles next to Eriksson and Whitney on the wing. Everyone isn't going to develop properly, but I think we've seen enough to be confident that at any given time two of those guys can handle Top 6 minutes.

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04-08-2013, 07:41 PM
  #152
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I disagree. Our top 6 is very solid.
I can't help but .

We are 13th in the league in goals per game, which isnt' bad but isn't great. Contributing a good deal to those numbers were Jagr, Roy, and Ryder. Those players aren't coming back. Who should or shouldn't be included in the discussion of this team's top 6 is debatable beyond Benn, Eriksson, and Whitney, the latter one being 40+ and having only one more year on his deal. Looking to the future this team's forward corp is entirely up in the air. If some of the younger guys prove capable then yeah, it's solid. But until then nothing about this team's forward corp indicates that it's anything other than average at best.

I repeat, we can use all the good players we can get, at any position.

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04-08-2013, 07:45 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Regarding wingers though for next season. I'm not going to pick and choose names, but I think at least two of Alex Chiasson, Reilly Smith, Matt Fraser, and Brett Ritchie will easily fill Top 6 roles next to Eriksson and Whitney on the wing. Everyone isn't going to develop properly, but I think we've seen enough to be confident that at any given time two of those guys can handle Top 6 minutes.
Still though, it will take time to determine if those guys will pan out. Maybe Smith takes off next year after soaking in his first full pro season. Maybe he struggles. Maybe Ritchie pulls a Benn and looks legit out of the gate. Maybe he spends the whole year in Austin and doesn't exactly blow the doors off the AHL.

I like these guys as much as everyone else and hope for the best but until we see that come to fruition we can't call this group of forwards anything other than average.

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04-08-2013, 07:51 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
I agree Eakin has to prove a bit more before I comfortable saying he's a long term solution as the 2nd center.

Regarding wingers though for next season. I'm not going to pick and choose names, but I think at least two of Alex Chiasson, Reilly Smith, Matt Fraser, and Brett Ritchie will easily fill Top 6 roles next to Eriksson and Whitney on the wing. Everyone isn't going to develop properly, but I think we've seen enough to be confident that at any given time two of those guys can handle Top 6 minutes.
I don't doubt they will rely on at least one of the young guys to play top 6 minutes, but my point is that calling our top 6 situation for next season solid just isn't accurate.

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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
I can't help but .

We are 13th in the league in goals per game, which isnt' bad but isn't great. Contributing a good deal to those numbers were Jagr, Roy, and Ryder. Those players aren't coming back. Who should or shouldn't be included in the discussion of this team's top 6 is debatable beyond Benn, Eriksson, and Whitney, the latter one being 40+ and having only one more year on his deal. Looking to the future this team's forward corp is entirely up in the air. If some of the younger guys prove capable then yeah, it's solid. But until then nothing about this team's forward corps indicates that it's anything other than average at best.

I repeat, we can use all the good players we can get, at any position.
100% agree, without a really solid top 6 aquisition via trade or free agency our top 6 will be among the weakest in the NHL on paper. Smith is the most experienced and could take a big step forward, but I fully expect Fraser, Chiasson, or Ritchie to have a Smith type season of getting up to NHL speed without a ton of production. Keeping expectations of these young wingers, Chiasson especially, lower is a much better than expecting the Stars to have enough quality to compete with the Chicagos, Minnesotas, and St Louises next season.

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04-08-2013, 07:56 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I don't doubt they will rely on at least one of the young guys to play top 6 minutes, but my point is that calling our top 6 situation for next season solid just isn't accurate.



100% agree, without a really solid top 6 aquisition via trade or free agency our top 6 will be among the weakest in the NHL on paper. Smith is the most experienced and could take a big step forward, but I fully expect Fraser, Chiasson, or Ritchie to have a Smith type season of getting up to NHL speed without a ton of production. Keeping expectations of these young wingers, Chiasson especially, lower is a much better than expecting the Stars to have enough quality to compete with the Chicagos, Minnesotas, and St Louises next season.
this is what i love about detroit.. (even though i hate them) soo patient with prospects. i can hardly remember them depending on a rookie, and when they do bring them up, they are for the most part well polished and prepared.

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04-08-2013, 08:14 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by eartotheground View Post
this is what i love about detroit.. (even though i hate them) soo patient with prospects. i can hardly remember them depending on a rookie, and when they do bring them up, they are for the most part well polished and prepared.
In my perfect world the Stars have a rotation of those guys. When the one in the NHL struggles, the best of the 3 in the AHL gets a shot. It probably should have been like that for Smith and Fraser this season.

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04-09-2013, 12:20 AM
  #157
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Originally Posted by glovesave_35 View Post
Still though, it will take time to determine if those guys will pan out. Maybe Smith takes off next year after soaking in his first full pro season. Maybe he struggles. Maybe Ritchie pulls a Benn and looks legit out of the gate. Maybe he spends the whole year in Austin and doesn't exactly blow the doors off the AHL.

I like these guys as much as everyone else and hope for the best but until we see that come to fruition we can't call this group of forwards anything other than average.
All you did was restate my point. Since it's natural to assume development isn't linear, I didn't say who would be the guy to breakthrough. It's just reasonable to assume all of them aren't going to stall in development at the same time, and you could reasonably project two consistent Top 6 wingers out of that group as soon as next season.

It's no different than Brenden Dillon last spring. They didn't load up on D in the summer because they estimated that he could make the jump. What I'm saying isn't even as a big a risk as that assumption considering it's only two holes and a minimum of 4 and potentially more guys like a Stransky to fill them.

I'm pointing out there's reason to be optimistic at the very least about Dallas' Top 6. I'm not pretending they could be world beaters or anything like that.

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04-09-2013, 02:23 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
All you did was restate my point. Since it's natural to assume development isn't linear, I didn't say who would be the guy to breakthrough. It's just reasonable to assume all of them aren't going to stall in development at the same time, and you could reasonably project two consistent Top 6 wingers out of that group as soon as next season.

It's no different than Brenden Dillon last spring. They didn't load up on D in the summer because they estimated that he could make the jump. What I'm saying isn't even as a big a risk as that assumption considering it's only two holes and a minimum of 4 and potentially more guys like a Stransky to fill them.

I'm pointing out there's reason to be optimistic at the very least about Dallas' Top 6. I'm not pretending they could be world beaters or anything like that.
I did not just restate your post. The difference is that I hope two of those wingers will be consistent top 6 producers next season and you are assuming two of them will. I have high hopes for those guys as well but it's still up in the air whether two of those guys will ever be top 6 wingers, let alone by next season.

The difference with Dillon is that he wasn't going to be counted on to play top 4 minutes heading into the season, he was given a regular spot in the lineup and earned those extra minutes and responsibility.

Anyways, the main point I'm getting at is that we are in no position to be turning away quality young players who aren't defensemen. We have a need for NHL level scoring forwards. We are not "set" at forward right now with what we have in the pipeline, promising as they may be.

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04-09-2013, 01:59 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
All you did was restate my point. Since it's natural to assume development isn't linear, I didn't say who would be the guy to breakthrough. It's just reasonable to assume all of them aren't going to stall in development at the same time, and you could reasonably project two consistent Top 6 wingers out of that group as soon as next season.

It's no different than Brenden Dillon last spring. They didn't load up on D in the summer because they estimated that he could make the jump. What I'm saying isn't even as a big a risk as that assumption considering it's only two holes and a minimum of 4 and potentially more guys like a Stransky to fill them.

I'm pointing out there's reason to be optimistic at the very least about Dallas' Top 6. I'm not pretending they could be world beaters or anything like that.
I really disagree with this. A group of 4 forwards with fewer than 82 NHL games combined might produce one top 6 guy, but the odds of two even average wingers for next season are very low.

The disconnect could be expectations for the Stars. I want the Stars to be a playoff team next year, and that means signing a center who is as good as or better than Eakin to replace Roy and a top 6 winger to replace Jagr. If other fans want a lottery team, then Eakin plus 2 of Chiasson/Smith/Fraser/Ritchie in the top 6 is going to do the trick. To be clear I don't mean that to be an insult, I just think the team is close and needs to make the playoffs.

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04-09-2013, 02:10 PM
  #160
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I've never really been able to watch Derek Roy play hockey before this trade, but damn is he good! Such a sick playmaker and those dangles! Oh man, I'm so happy that he is on this team. I know it might just be for this short season/playoffs, but hopefully the canucks will take advantage of it. He's a hell of a player. A type of player that the Canucks desperately needed and he has so much confidence.

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04-09-2013, 02:11 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
I've never really been able to watch Derek Roy play hockey before this trade, but damn is he good! Such a sick playmaker and those dangles! Oh man, I'm so happy that he is on this team. I know it might just be for this short season/playoffs, but hopefully the canucks will take advantage of it. He's a hell of a player. A type of player that the Canucks desperately needed and he has so much confidence.
likewise

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04-09-2013, 02:13 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
I've never really been able to watch Derek Roy play hockey before this trade, but damn is he good! Such a sick playmaker and those dangles! Oh man, I'm so happy that he is on this team. I know it might just be for this short season/playoffs, but hopefully the canucks will take advantage of it. He's a hell of a player. A type of player that the Canucks desperately needed and he has so much confidence.
Wait until his little freak injuries start happening then you won't be singing the same tune.

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04-09-2013, 02:45 PM
  #163
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Man I just never saw it with Roy. I never saw much playmaking and don't remember him doing any dangles. I saw a slow, stiff, small guy who was a solid all-around hockey player.

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04-09-2013, 02:48 PM
  #164
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Man I just never saw it with Roy. I never saw much playmaking and don't remember him doing any dangles. I saw a slow, stiff, small guy who was a solid all-around hockey player.
Me too. He was the kind of guy that picked up points quietly and never really did anything all that impressive (good or bad). Seemed solid and all but he never really did anything attention grabbing.

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04-09-2013, 03:55 PM
  #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Misty View Post
I'm not really sure how you get to this conclusion now. Pre trades I would have agreed with you, but now that Roy and Jagr are gone without replacement the forward group has a huge hole at 2C. I'm not sold on Eakin to be that guy, and it is still too soon to expect Chiasson/Fraser/Smith to play a bona fide top 6 role at a solid NHL level. I think the current group has not fallen completely apart, partly because there is no more pressure to win, and that might fool some fans into forgetting that the Stars on paper have a bottom 3rd top 6.
Yeah, I didn't think that one through to well. I think what I was trying to say was that our top 3 forwards (Benn, Loui, Whitney) were in the higher tier in the league. Don't know why I threw the entire 6 in there.

My point still remains though. I firmly believe that with the high quality winger prospects we have, free agent signings, etc., we'll be a fantastic forward group sooner rather than later, but only if the defense improves.

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04-09-2013, 05:41 PM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luongo321 View Post
I've never really been able to watch Derek Roy play hockey before this trade, but damn is he good! Such a sick playmaker and those dangles! Oh man, I'm so happy that he is on this team. I know it might just be for this short season/playoffs, but hopefully the canucks will take advantage of it. He's a hell of a player. A type of player that the Canucks desperately needed and he has so much confidence.
Sounds more like a healthy Tim Connolly... Roy never had any of this while he was here.


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Man I just never saw it with Roy. I never saw much playmaking and don't remember him doing any dangles. I saw a slow, stiff, small guy who was a solid all-around hockey player.
This is the player I saw, as well.

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04-09-2013, 06:46 PM
  #167
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I don't know who this mysterious dangler/playmaker you are speaking of is, but certainly you do not mean Derek Roy.

Honestly I get the same impression as everyone else on here, never stuck out but seemed to produce all right. I always heard he was more of a shooter than a passer and we didn't see much of that. In fact, I remember being frustrated by his lack of ability to elevate the damn puck properly, could have had twice as many goals if he did that. He seemed to do a good job of keeping plays alive, driving the play towards offense, and then someone else would score while he was out there. He definitely wasn't some offensive black hole like Erik Cole has been, but he didn't seem like he was ever 'the man' on his line, and I can't think of too many specific "wow" moments that stuck out to me when he was out there. Even guys who people claim quietly get points do very impressive things when you look hard enough (like Loui), but I just didn't see it with Roy.

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